Jump to content


Matchmaking Discussion Thread

MM

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
12788 replies to this topic

jabster #12321 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:26 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 12649 battles
  • 25,346
  • [WSAT] WSAT
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View Postduijm, on 06 March 2019 - 05:25 PM, said:

 

You dont have to react.

 

And neither did you but you did so what point are you trying to make?

DangerMouse #12322 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:30 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 28740 battles
  • 1,069
  • [FLOG] FLOG
  • Member since:
    10-28-2010
Duijm

I don't think i have ever struggled so hard to explain something to someone that i agree with.

I think random is fair, others think balanced teams in every battle is fair. Both are valid positions.

duijm #12323 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:31 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 47534 battles
  • 2,501
  • [RANGX] RANGX
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View Postjabster, on 06 March 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

 

And neither did you but you did so what point are you trying to make?

 

What is yours then?

 



jabster #12324 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:38 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 12649 battles
  • 25,346
  • [WSAT] WSAT
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View Postduijm, on 06 March 2019 - 05:31 PM, said:

 

What is yours then?

 

 

That it’s a line of argument (both sides) that never goes anywhere.

duijm #12325 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:38 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 47534 battles
  • 2,501
  • [RANGX] RANGX
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostDangerMouse, on 06 March 2019 - 05:30 PM, said:

Duijm

I don't think i have ever struggled so hard to explain something to someone that i agree with.

I think random is fair, others think balanced teams in every battle is fair. Both are valid positions.

 

I understand you...but balanced teams are in no explaination fair.

Max_Calibre #12326 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:39 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 21755 battles
  • 1,121
  • Member since:
    02-03-2014

View PostSlyspy, on 05 March 2019 - 10:30 PM, said:

 

Why is it fair that a good player always gets matched with another good player? Who is it fair towards?

 

Pointless to talk with this Guy

waste your time so up WG [edited]he squeaks ~ a Field Marshal ANY idea how countless 10,000 posts it requires to get to a Field Marshall, years of nothing else just this in life … sad really

 

Guy is a no-life

Do NOY engage, its too frustrating He always has 10 or 15 replies ready for your 1 post

just saying ………… MM threads should inform WG that the players aka the Majority like/ don't like 

even though wargame NEVER reads anything here over 800 pages hmm and NOTHING



duijm #12327 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:39 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 47534 battles
  • 2,501
  • [RANGX] RANGX
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View Postjabster, on 06 March 2019 - 05:38 PM, said:

 

That it’s a line of argument (both sides) that never goes anywhere.

 

Well no...that is what you always say.  But still waiting on your definition of fair for SBMM.

 

Def of fair: treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination


Edited by duijm, 06 March 2019 - 06:42 PM.


jabster #12328 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:43 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 12649 battles
  • 25,346
  • [WSAT] WSAT
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View Postduijm, on 06 March 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

 

Well no...that is what you always say.  But still waiting on your definition of fair for SBMM.

 

I don’t care whether it’s fair, or not. I care whether it would be a ‘better’ game. Do you think it’s fair that say football is organised so that teams of not completely different skills don’t generally play each other. 

duijm #12329 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:45 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 47534 battles
  • 2,501
  • [RANGX] RANGX
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View Postjabster, on 06 March 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:

 

I don’t care whether it’s fair, or not. I care whether it would be a ‘better’ game. Do you think it’s fair that say football is organised so that teams of not completely different skills don’t generally play each other. 

 

I also like it to be a better game. SBMM wont make that so...and it is not fair.  So double NO.

Edited by duijm, 06 March 2019 - 06:45 PM.


DangerMouse #12330 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:45 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 28740 battles
  • 1,069
  • [FLOG] FLOG
  • Member since:
    10-28-2010

View Postduijm, on 06 March 2019 - 05:38 PM, said:

 

I understand you...but balanced teams are in no explaination fair.

 

Its all a matter of perspective. 



duijm #12331 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:48 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 47534 battles
  • 2,501
  • [RANGX] RANGX
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostDangerMouse, on 06 March 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

Its all a matter of perspective. 

 

Well give it then...why do you think it is fair.  Give a definition of fair please.

jabster #12332 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:48 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 12649 battles
  • 25,346
  • [WSAT] WSAT
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View Postduijm, on 06 March 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

I also like it to be a better game. SBMM wont make that so...and it is not fair.  So double NO.

 

So you don’t think that football is a better game because of its organisation into leagues?

Edited by jabster, 06 March 2019 - 06:48 PM.


DangerMouse #12333 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:52 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 28740 battles
  • 1,069
  • [FLOG] FLOG
  • Member since:
    10-28-2010

View Postduijm, on 06 March 2019 - 05:48 PM, said:

 

Well give it then...why do you think it is fair.  Give a definition of fair please.

FFS i don't I can just see why others might. Stop being so stubborn. 



duijm #12334 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:58 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 47534 battles
  • 2,501
  • [RANGX] RANGX
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostDangerMouse, on 06 March 2019 - 05:52 PM, said:

FFS i don't I can just see why others might. Stop being so stubborn. 

 

I am not stubbern.....we are talking about SBMM in randoms.  We are not talking about leagues or ranked battles.

I am not saying we cant have some other system were noobs play noobs etc But we are talking about randoms.

And their is no definition of fair that justify SBMM in randoms. 

 


Edited by duijm, 06 March 2019 - 06:59 PM.


malowany #12335 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:58 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 6040 battles
  • 647
  • [H-O-A] H-O-A
  • Member since:
    06-24-2011
How about we all agree that WOT is less enjoyable experience than it used to be. 

m1x_angelico #12336 Posted 06 March 2019 - 07:00 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 24109 battles
  • 1,254
  • [-VETO] -VETO
  • Member since:
    01-04-2015

View PostVelvet_Underground, on 05 March 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

You are pivoting again, we were talking about the teams and not about the individual players. Why do you think the village club can not (or is extremely unlikely to) win against the premiere league one? What is the deciding factor in your opinion?

 

Because the village club's skill level is composed of skill level of individual players. The skill is the major deciding factor. There are also other factors (I player is playing sick, gets injured, they are playing in the rain, winter, goaly is blinded by the sun, they are playing at home, etc.), but skill is the major factor, especially is the skill level disparity is wide.

 

View PostBaldrickk, on 05 March 2019 - 11:17 PM, said:

Actually,  it'd probably be far more exciting to watch.   You'd never know what it'd be like from the start, whereas you can have a pretty good guess with teams in different positions in  the table.

You'd miss out on being able to follow your team through the season though. 

You want to know the reason football works? It's because it's organised.

Guess what? WOT has game modes like that too: Strongholds, Clan wars.   You can always go and play those. 

What we really don't need in random games is SBMM, for reasons coveted literally thousands of times already. 

You want to claim we need it?

Fine.  Go ahead. 

But you need to support that with how all the negatives will be mitigated, and how it is overall advantageous. 

No-one has been able to do so so far. 

 

If you can play all those SBMM like game mods in every tier and without being in a clan or not having difficulties finding a clan to constantly play as a legionnaire, then I would say we dont need SBMM in random. But, the issue is, you cant really do that in these game mods. As for the negatives, I wouldnt call having lower winrate a negative. It's just a meaningless stat, that can be replaced by another meaningless stat that works within the new MM framework.

 

View PostLordMuffin, on 06 March 2019 - 04:17 PM, said:

This is not the case. As shown by over 20k replays analysed. 

What is shown is that games where the teams are close in skill have just as many 15-3 and similar results as games where the teams are far apart in skill.

 

Thats true. The problem is that 15-3 result does not automatically mean the game was bad, just as the 15-6 result does not mean the game was good. Wrong premises lead to wrong conclusions.


Edited by m1x_angelico, 06 March 2019 - 07:02 PM.


DangerMouse #12337 Posted 06 March 2019 - 07:02 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 28740 battles
  • 1,069
  • [FLOG] FLOG
  • Member since:
    10-28-2010

View Postduijm, on 06 March 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

 

I am not stubbern.....we are talking about SBMM in randoms.  We are not talking about leagues or ranked battles.

I am not saying we cant have some other system were noobs play noobs etc But we are talking about randoms.

And their is no definition of fair that justify SBMM in randoms. 

 

 

Again I do agree with you, but other don't they think that fair would be everyone getting a 50% WR or only fighting againts equally skilled players, no one has yet to devise a MM for WOT that could even do that as none can agree on what metric you would even use to define player skill i that scenario where WR becomes obsolete.

 

Randoms should stay random.



duijm #12338 Posted 06 March 2019 - 07:03 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 47534 battles
  • 2,501
  • [RANGX] RANGX
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View Postm1x_angelico, on 06 March 2019 - 06:00 PM, said:

 

Because the village club's skill level is composed of skill level of individual players. The skill is the major deciding factor. There are also other factors (I player is playing sick, gets injured, they are playing in the rain, winter, goaly is blinded by the sun, they are playing at home, etc.), but skill is the major factor, especially is the skill level disparity is wide.

 

 

If you can play all those SBMM like game mods in every tier and without being in a clan or not having difficulties finding a clan to constantly play as a legionnaire, then I would say we dont need SBMM in random. But, the issue is, you cant really do that in these game mods. As for the negatives, I wouldnt call having lower winrate a negative. It's just a meaningless stat, that can be replaced by another meaningless stat that work within the new MM framework.

 

 

That true. The problem is that 15-3 result does not automatically mean the game was bad, just as the 15-6 result does not mean the game was good. Wrong premises lead to wrong conclusions.

 

Winrate is NOT a meaningless stat.  Your opinion is that it is meaningless for you. For most players it is the essence of playing a game.  

m1x_angelico #12339 Posted 06 March 2019 - 07:04 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 24109 battles
  • 1,254
  • [-VETO] -VETO
  • Member since:
    01-04-2015

View Postmalowany, on 06 March 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

How about we all agree that WOT is less enjoyable experience than it used to be. 

 

I think everyone on this thread can agree with that and the fact that MM can be much better. We are just unsure how to go best about fixing it.

 

The funny thing is, we are not even the ones who have to fix it.



duijm #12340 Posted 06 March 2019 - 07:05 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 47534 battles
  • 2,501
  • [RANGX] RANGX
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostDangerMouse, on 06 March 2019 - 06:02 PM, said:

 

Again I do agree with you, but other don't they think that fair would be everyone getting a 50% WR or only fighting againts equally skilled players, no one has yet to devise a MM for WOT that could even do that as none can agree on what metric you would even use to define player skill i that scenario where WR becomes obsolete.

 

Randoms should stay random.

 

I know.....but people may think 50% winrate for all is fair (in randoms).......but still waiting for any defintion of fair to justify that. Still nobody has given me one.

Edited by duijm, 06 March 2019 - 07:05 PM.






Also tagged with MM

4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users