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Sneaky MM tweak?


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IncandescentGerbil #1 Posted 05 July 2017 - 03:14 PM

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I went through a protracted stage of seeing overwhelmingly 3,5,7 battles in my Type 5. Whilst appreciating this was pretty miserable from a bottom tier perspective, I was very much enjoying it, as pottering about whilst shooting helpless Tier 8s in the face is a good fit for my abilities.

However, I now seem to be getting more single tier games than anything at tier X. I was thinking this might be a consequence of Ranked ending, but it's happening in the daytime, too. Anyone else notice this, or is it just random?  


Edited by IncandescentGerbil, 05 July 2017 - 03:15 PM.


Isharial #2 Posted 05 July 2017 - 03:19 PM

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View PostIncandescentGerbil, on 05 July 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

I went through a protracted stage of seeing overwhelmingly 3,5,7 battles in my Type 5. Whilst appreciating this was pretty miserable from a bottom tier perspective, I was very much enjoying it, as pottering about whilst shooting helpless Tier 8s in the face is a good fit for my abilities.

However, I now seem to be getting more single tier games than anything at tier X. I was thinking this might be a consequence of Ranked ending, but it's happening in the daytime, too. Anyone else notice this, or is it just random?

 

its because of the sheer amount of TX players, and that has an effect on T8 as well, bringing them against you... both tiers being highly played makes the MM what it is

the lower tiers where equal players are, are more balanced and see the MM as it should be working, T8 and T10, do not, purely because of us, the players, over saturating those tiers, both with premiums, and "end game"


 

its a consequence of the players, and not ranked battles that causes it


 


 



IncandescentGerbil #3 Posted 05 July 2017 - 03:23 PM

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View PostIsharial, on 05 July 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

 

its because of the sheer amount of TX players, and that has an effect on T8 as well, bringing them against you... both tiers being highly played makes the MM what it is

the lower tiers where equal players are, are more balanced and see the MM as it should be working, T8 and T10, do not, purely because of us, the players, over saturating those tiers, both with premiums, and "end game"


 

its a consequence of the players, and not ranked battles that causes it


 


 

 

​Yes, but my point is that I have seen a big difference in the last few days, as to the % of 3,5,7 games I have been seeing when playing tier x. In my experience, it has gone down. 

1ncompetenc3 #4 Posted 05 July 2017 - 04:56 PM

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I did notice fewer tier X battles in my tier VIII this morning and yesterday, but that may well have been a coincidence. If WG made any kind of positive change for once you'd better believe they would have already let us know about it.

IncandescentGerbil #5 Posted 05 July 2017 - 05:04 PM

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View Post1ncompetenc3, on 05 July 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

I did notice fewer tier X battles in my tier VIII this morning and yesterday, but that may well have been a coincidence. If WG made any kind of positive change for once you'd better believe they would have already let us know about it.

 

​I'm pretty sure there are many in WG's balancing cupboard who wouldn't consider it a positive change....



T_H_F #6 Posted 06 July 2017 - 08:36 AM

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Tinfoil or not, some obs i made,,, tends....

 

FV4005,,, seams to be at bottom most in all T10 MM,,,, take my T54 it get a mix of tiers.. Perhaps a TD<>MEDS thing

Rhm,,,,,,,, seams to meet more T10 if i run big gun, but more tier mix with baby gun..

 

Its not 100%,,, just tends to be like that....and it could all be in MY head :bush:

 



JocMeister #7 Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:14 AM

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Its most likely due to tier 8 being very bad right now. So its probably not very populated. This means the MM has to make single tier games at TX and T9.

IncandescentGerbil #8 Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:22 AM

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View PostJocMeister, on 06 July 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

Its most likely due to tier 8 being very bad right now. So its probably not very populated. This means the MM has to make single tier games at TX and T9.

I did wonder if the premium guys have finally got so fed up with being bottom tier that they have just stopped playing. Last night I got 60% tier x only games. Which, in my opinion, is pretty tedious.


Edited by IncandescentGerbil, 06 July 2017 - 09:24 AM.


JocMeister #9 Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:46 AM

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View PostIncandescentGerbil, on 06 July 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

I did wonder if the premium guys have finally got so fed up with being bottom tier that they have just stopped playing. Last night I got 60% tier x only games. Which, in my opinion, is pretty tedious.

 

Not much point playing T8 prems right now unless you have a high PEN gun that doesn´t require too much gold against T9 and TX.

 

WG really dropped the ball on the new MM and Tier 8. How they couldn´t foresee this is kind of embarrassing TBH.



RamRaid90 #10 Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:49 AM

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View PostJocMeister, on 06 July 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

 

Not much point playing T8 prems right now unless you have a high PEN gun that doesn´t require too much gold against T9 and TX.

 

WG really dropped the ball on the new MM and Tier 8. How they couldn´t foresee this is kind of embarrassing TBH.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thhing tbh.



JocMeister #11 Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:00 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 06 July 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thhing tbh.

 

Well, you could expect a multi million dollar company with hundreds of thousands of users to actually check the math behind the changes they make. They do have access to all the data regarding tier population and everything else they need. 

 

So either they are just as incompetent as some people claim (vodka vodka, Russia kekekek) or this is intentional for some reason. But I can´t fathom them intentionally wrecking T8. That got to hurt the Tier 8 premium sales in the long run. Especially once "word get out" to the general masses and/or even the "gray mass" of players start to realize the no longer make much credits in the T8 prems they paid real money for. 



RamRaid90 #12 Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:19 AM

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View PostJocMeister, on 06 July 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

 

Well, you could expect a multi million dollar company with hundreds of thousands of users to actually check the math behind the changes they make. They do have access to all the data regarding tier population and everything else they need. 

 

So either they are just as incompetent as some people claim (vodka vodka, Russia kekekek) or this is intentional for some reason. But I can´t fathom them intentionally wrecking T8. That got to hurt the Tier 8 premium sales in the long run. Especially once "word get out" to the general masses and/or even the "gray mass" of players start to realize the no longer make much credits in the T8 prems they paid real money for. 

 

Well some of those premium tanks available in the shop at all times have well passed their sell-by date. They must not be selling many of them at all by now for two reasons.

 

Anybody that already wanted it has already purchased it, and the introduction of stronger newer premiums has rendered the vast majority of them redundant.

 

So they have to sell more of their newer tanks which outclass all their peers and that can stand up to higher tier tanks. (Skorpion G, Patriot and Defender) in order to sell more of these tanks they have to boost the MM to favour bottom tier so that people who do need to farm credits, need to purchase a new premium tank to do so as their old ones just won't cut the mustard anymore.

 

If tier VIII MM was indeed repaired, and you saw an increase in top tier games. People could suddenly start using their old premiums and would not need to look toward the newer better premiums.

 

So my guess is it's intentional, and my conclusion is that it is probably working.



JocMeister #13 Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:28 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 06 July 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

 

Well some of those premium tanks available in the shop at all times have well passed their sell-by date. They must not be selling many of them at all by now for two reasons.

 

Anybody that already wanted it has already purchased it, and the introduction of stronger newer premiums has rendered the vast majority of them redundant.

 

So they have to sell more of their newer tanks which outclass all their peers and that can stand up to higher tier tanks. (Skorpion G, Patriot and Defender) in order to sell more of these tanks they have to boost the MM to favour bottom tier so that people who do need to farm credits, need to purchase a new premium tank to do so as their old ones just won't cut the mustard anymore.

 

If tier VIII MM was indeed repaired, and you saw an increase in top tier games. People could suddenly start using their old premiums and would not need to look toward the newer better premiums.

 

So my guess is it's intentional, and my conclusion is that it is probably working.

 

That is actually not a bad thought. Wouldnt´t surprise me if you hit the nail on the head.

Aikl #14 Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:47 AM

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View Post1ncompetenc3, on 05 July 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

I did notice fewer tier X battles in my tier VIII this morning and yesterday, but that may well have been a coincidence. If WG made any kind of positive change for once you'd better believe they would have already let us know about it.

 

Time of day is key in my experience.

 

If WG announced a positive change, it would mean admitting something were wrong to begin with. :trollface:

 

View PostRamRaid90, on 06 July 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

 

(...)

So my guess is it's intentional, and my conclusion is that it is probably working.

 

While I don't experience much better matchmaking, this does make sense. As powerful as the MM can be in deciding game enjoyment it would frankly be surprising if WG ignored the potential of calibrating it real-time. I guess we're approaching the time point of data being 'valid' (according to WG, they need two-three months, I believe), and adjustments can be made.

Edited by Aikl, 06 July 2017 - 10:50 AM.


RamRaid90 #15 Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:52 AM

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View PostJocMeister, on 06 July 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

That is actually not a bad thought. Wouldnt´t surprise me if you hit the nail on the head.

 

To me it seems only logical, and unfortunatley a natural progression of the tier they chose to farm their income from.

 

When they started with premium tanks and they chose tier VIII. They only had to balance them vs their own tier. Once you release a bunch of premium tanks that are balanced vs their tech tree counter parts, you then have to balance them by their tech tree and premium counterparts. However, releasing tanks which are the same as the current ones would harm sales as nobody wants to buy something they already have.

 

In turn this means that the newer premium tanks have to be better than the older ones, in order to sell to all markets.

 

There are three markets to sell premium tanks to:

1) New players just starting out, who will buy the first premium tank they see in the shop just to get on the ladder.

2) Collectors who buy every premium tank regardless of it's abilities

3) The hardest market to sell to, but by far the biggest and most profitable market. The Old Timers. Those who already own a few premium tanks and have been playing long enough to know, but need a reason to purchase a newer better premium tank to stay on top of their opponents.

 

It stands to reason that natural progression has lead to the overpowered, broken tier VIII premium tanks we now see infesting every battle. These tanks are so out of balance because after a few years of progressively stronger premium tanks they have now caught up with their Tier IX counterparts and some can even give their tier X opponents trouble. This means those who own the broken premiums have no fear vs any opponent and the vast majority will just find it more entertaining that their little Skorpion G can so easily blast holes in anything it sees.


Edited by RamRaid90, 06 July 2017 - 10:54 AM.


HassenderZerhacker #16 Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:00 AM

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View PostIncandescentGerbil, on 06 July 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

I did wonder if the premium guys have finally got so fed up with being bottom tier that they have just stopped playing. Last night I got 60% tier x only games. Which, in my opinion, is pretty tedious.

 

You do realize how that sounds, right?

Because I have to face tier X tanks in my tier 8 and tier 9 tanks, and WG considers all same-tier battles as "top tier" battles...

When I get all same tier battles, I'm actually ok with it, because there won't be a tier 5 against which I can't do anything.

Heck, yesterday I shot a Type 4 on it's side with my E75 at a 60° angle and I couldn't pen !! three times !

And you complain about same tier battles on tier 10... get a grip.



IncandescentGerbil #17 Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:08 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 06 July 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

You do realize how that sounds, right?

Because I have to face tier X tanks in my tier 8 and tier 9 tanks, and WG considers all same-tier battles as "top tier" battles...

When I get all same tier battles, I'm actually ok with it, because there won't be a tier 5 against which I can't do anything.

Heck, yesterday I shot a Type 4 on it's side with my E75 at a 60° angle and I couldn't pen !! three times !

And you complain about same tier battles on tier 10... get a grip.

Get a grip of what, exactly? Playing same tier games DOES get boring, after a while. I also acknowledged in my original post that MM sucks if you are consistently bottom tier. No one disputes that. The thread was posted to see if my perception, that all tier X games have become more prevalent, is accurate.



MattTheMiz #18 Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:29 AM

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ironically i find easier to make credits with maus ( with standard acc, and withouth gold spamming) than t8 premium tanks, when i play t8 prem with this rigged mm i have to pay attention to every single detail, a mistake and boom and with gold needed spamming they are not that much profitable in under 2-2,5k dmg batlles, with maus if the other t10 are in the opposite side of the map it is just no sense 

 

Edited by MattTheMiz, 06 July 2017 - 11:30 AM.


Noo_Noo #19 Posted 06 July 2017 - 12:10 PM

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View PostJocMeister, on 06 July 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

 

Well, you could expect a multi million dollar company with hundreds of thousands of users to actually check the math behind the changes they make. They do have access to all the data regarding tier population and everything else they need. 

 

So either they are just as incompetent as some people claim (vodka vodka, Russia kekekek) or this is intentional for some reason. But I can´t fathom them intentionally wrecking T8. That got to hurt the Tier 8 premium sales in the long run. Especially once "word get out" to the general masses and/or even the "gray mass" of players start to realize the no longer make much credits in the T8 prems they paid real money for. 

 

here's a theory. Wreck Tier 8 as mentioned but bring in OP premiums to compensate. Ignore / leave old premiums because they want people to buy new Premium tanks. 

 

Huge problem is that normal Tier 8's suffer which basically still makes them look stupid.



SABAOTH #20 Posted 06 July 2017 - 12:31 PM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 06 July 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

 

here's a theory. Wreck Tier 8 as mentioned but bring in OP premiums to compensate. Ignore / leave old premiums because they want people to buy new Premium tanks. 

 

Huge problem is that normal Tier 8's suffer which basically still makes them look stupid.

 

So why exactly should I spend money on an "OP" premium tank when it will be faced to tier X like my older ones? Even chrysler or Defender have basically zero fear factor vs tier X tanks. They are OP compared to regular premiums because they usually do not fear tier 7 and 6. But against faced to tier X tanks they are just seals to be clubbed.

 

Of course I have problems in killing a defender in my cromwell, but do you really believe I have any trouple in dispatching it in Maus, Leopard, BC, Obj, IS 4 - 7, E 75, JP  E 100, 110E5, ST I...etc?

 

Is a 2 -3 shots sitting duck. :justwait:

 

Not worth the money with this MM really.

 

View PostMattTheMiz, on 06 July 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

ironically i find easier to make credits with maus ( with standard acc, and withouth gold spamming) than t8 premium tanks, when i play t8 prem with this rigged mm i have to pay attention to every single detail, a mistake and boom and with gold needed spamming they are not that much profitable in under 2-2,5k dmg batlles, with maus if the other t10 are in the opposite side of the map it is just no sense 
 

 

Yes, Tier X farm great silver. Just vaporize those pesky tier 8 while laughing at the dings. Easy statpadding.

 

WG denies that there is a problem, but that is nothing new. But come on, this is not intentional and will not benefit sales of tier 8 premiums at all, actually it can damage the sales. Think how fun would be to play a KV 85 every single match vs 3 defenders / chryslers/ other. You probably stop to buy tier 6 tanks.

 

If you would point that is a conspiracy to sell lower tier premiums or premium accounts, that would sound more logic. :P


Edited by SABAOTH, 06 July 2017 - 12:32 PM.





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