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Tiger I... should be moved down one tier.


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HassenderZerhacker #1 Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:15 PM

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Since I grinded through the Tiger I, I have been playing this tank infrequently, achieved 54% WR in it, mostly before the OP tier 8 prems came out.

 

Today, I tried to win a battle with Tiger I, which proved impossible. After 7 defeats in a row, I quit playing for the day.

The Tiger I can't defend itself even against tier 6 tanks.

EVERYTHING PENS EVERYWHERE. Angling is a joke.

Even tier 5 tanks pen its turret.

 

And then it faces the OP tier 8 prems... and even tier 9... :facepalm:



IncandescentGerbil #2 Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:56 PM

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I have never played the Tigger, but I have often thought that the British heavies could be made relevant by moving each one down a tier, and putting the Chieftain at the top. 

AvalancheZ257 #3 Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:59 PM

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View PostIncandescentGerbil, on 06 July 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

I have never played the Tigger, but I have often thought that the British heavies could be made relevant by moving each one down a tier, and putting the Chieftain at the top. 

 

Not quite. Most good British tanks above Tier VIII use the 120mm gun, which has absolutely no business 1 tier lower (ridiculous and gun handling DPM in that case). They should just remove the Churchill I or VII (why do we need 2 of almost the same tank?) and move the Black Prince and Caenarvon down a tier, then place a new tank in Tier VIII, and add the Chieftan or Super Conqueror as alternatives to the FV215b. 

Bambodos #4 Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:59 PM

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Though its not a T29, the Tiger is a pretty decent tank! DPM is awesome, pen good, aimtime decent, dispersion values decent. Its only the armor that sucks. Play aggressive in top tier matches and try to avoid shots by baiting them to shoot your sides when sidescraping. Im on 91,5% of MoE in this tank withing 85 games including stock. Its very good imo! Turret got a buff as well though that cant be relied upon at all..

 



MarcoStrapone #5 Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:01 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 06 July 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Since I grinded through the Tiger I, I have been playing this tank infrequently, achieved 54% WR in it, mostly before the OP tier 8 prems came out.

 

Today, I tried to win a battle with Tiger I, which proved impossible. After 7 defeats in a row, I quit playing for the day.

The Tiger I can't defend itself even against tier 6 tanks.

EVERYTHING PENS EVERYWHERE. Angling is a joke.

Even tier 5 tanks pen its turret.

 

And then it faces the OP tier 8 prems... and even tier 9... :facepalm:

 

but we have 2 or 3 tigers in tier 6, so maybe to tier 5?:(

TungstenHitman #6 Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:06 PM

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The thing about the Tigers flat armour.. a question.. if it's totally flat and a perfect box shape including no sloping then.. doesn't that mean that both using the front corner of the tank as a place to always "point at the enemy" combined with a hill or depression to give positive or negative sloping to that flat armour(now sloped in other words) should transform that armour value from 100 to significantly more including ricochet?

 

In other words turn the box into an arrow shape and incline it on a slope to also create sloping and use its gun dep?



Slyspy #7 Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:13 PM

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Not with that DPM or HP it shouldn't. Nor probably with that gun handling or penetration either. 

Aikl #8 Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:20 PM

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Tiger on T6 makes sense1, but what are you going to put on T7? Tiger 2 fits the bill, which leads to T8 being a problem. 

 

E75 Prototyp A? Could work - seeing as the E75 was just a proposal with, from what I can understand, no schematics, just a weight proposal. How to balance it properly? Guess you'll make it a Tiger 2-E75 hybrid, with similar armor features (though effective LFP thickness would have to be no more than 160 head-on). Keep the cupola and roof overmatch, buff the turret sides and/or front.

 

Don't touch the side armor - you don't want some slow, overpowered heavy tank which can't be penned anywhere by T6s firing AP.  :rolleyes:

 

1It would obviously need a major rebalance to fit in. ARL 44 is essentially in the same vein as the Tiger, and noone's complaining about the 212mm-pen gun on that thing. L71 as a lower-DPM high-pen alternative to a more balanced L56... and then give it a 150mm howitzer because someone drew a Panther with it - it would only make sense that a bigger tank could mount it!


Edited by Aikl, 06 July 2017 - 11:23 PM.


TungstenHitman #9 Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:26 PM

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Checked it out.. best possible use of pointing flat armour corner as a natural point shape increases from 100 front to around an equal 130mm either side, nothing major and inclining tank on a slope doesn't really create a T34 like sloping but the natural +45-45 degrees of the arrow shaped offering towards the opposing tank instead of flank still boosts 30% armour potential and that 45 degree ricochet potential.. it's how I'd present it to the eneny tanks lets put it that way lol

 

http://tanks.gg/tank/tiger-i/model



Slyspy #10 Posted 06 July 2017 - 11:37 PM

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View PostAikl, on 06 July 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

 

 

1It would obviously need a major rebalance to fit in. ARL 44 is essentially in the same vein as the Tiger, and noone's complaining about the 212mm-pen gun on that thing. L71 as a lower-DPM high-pen alternative to a more balanced L56... and then give it a 150mm howitzer because someone drew a Panther with it - it would only make sense that a bigger tank could mount it!

 

This is because the ARL is French and so you see one once in a blue moon. 



EggyTheGumGumChewer #11 Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:20 AM

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It's the Tiger (P) that should be moved down..

Balc0ra #12 Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:23 AM

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Sounds like you playing it expecting it to be a brawler or effective close up. It never was, nor will it ever. It's the definition of a support HT. Thus the insane ROF vs the Tiger P. So tbh.. it's not even ideal as a tier 6 as the premiums have shown.

 

View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 06 July 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

The Tiger I can't defend itself even against tier 6 tanks.

EVERYTHING PENS EVERYWHERE. Angling is a joke.

Even tier 5 tanks pen its turret.

 

Well don't expect it do be "better" if it was a tier 6. Considering your first line. How do you think the Jap Tiger or 131 fairs if they get rushed?. They get penned by everything. Thus the equally fast ROF with the short 88. As that flat 100mm armor won't stand vs many tier 4 guns either, nor will the side. I mean the Matilda has 121mm pen.

 

Then again the mantle has been buffed on all Tiger modes. So at least that works well on the tier 6 variants atm. And the short 88 buffs made it less useless in a +2 game. As the Jap Tiger did suffer badly in those games with the old MM and 132mm pen.

 

View PostEggyTheGumGumChewer, on 07 July 2017 - 12:20 AM, said:

It's the Tiger (P) that should be moved down..

 

Actually I can agree with that one. They could make the 3601 a medium again even. As that is more useless. It's ROF is way to long vs the Tiger. So it's not even a good support HT in a +2 game.

Edited by Balc0ra, 07 July 2017 - 12:24 AM.


HassenderZerhacker #13 Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:41 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 06 July 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

Checked it out.. best possible use of pointing flat armour corner as a natural point shape increases from 100 front to around an equal 130mm either side, nothing major and inclining tank on a slope doesn't really create a T34 like sloping but the natural +45-45 degrees of the arrow shaped offering towards the opposing tank instead of flank still boosts 30% armour potential and that 45 degree ricochet potential.. it's how I'd present it to the eneny tanks lets put it that way lol

 

http://tanks.gg/tank/tiger-i/model

 

the thing is, that angling the tiger I can work against tier 5 tanks. tier 6 tanks have almost all enough pen against an angled tiger I. 

and then there is the turret... 

 



HassenderZerhacker #14 Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:49 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 07 July 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

Sounds like you playing it expecting it to be a brawler or effective close up. It never was, nor will it ever. It's the definition of a support HT.

 

nothing new here, and i have always played the tiger that way. but the maps often don't offer opportunities to play it that way. and then there are the other players clicking you the map, because 'heavy must brawl'



Slyspy #15 Posted 07 July 2017 - 01:14 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 07 July 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

 

nothing new here, and i have always played the tiger that way. but the maps often don't offer opportunities to play it that way. and then there are the other players clicking you the map, because 'heavy must brawl'

 

Sometimes you must, if top tier. You have the gun and the hitpoints. 

Plasma_Fire #16 Posted 07 July 2017 - 01:56 AM

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The Tiger E is a pretty good tank in its own right. It has to be played to to highlight its strengths as opposed to the T29 which can be played however you like.
The problem with the Tiger E now is that it always falls into games with tier 8 tanks that completely out class it even when you know how to play it.

 

If WG change it to a Tier 6 tank they would remove a lot of HP and its 88 L/71


Edited by Plasma_Fire, 07 July 2017 - 01:57 AM.


ExclamationMark #17 Posted 07 July 2017 - 02:01 AM

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No, it should just get a bloody buff already. 

Snake_Keeper #18 Posted 07 July 2017 - 03:19 AM

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Sadly, the only attention the German heavy tree will be getting is at the top. They still haven't added the Tier 3 premium that shows up in many of the beta vids.

Nothing happened to the Short 88mm stats when the 131 rolled off the line even though they could have taken the chance to update the pen to the 90mm test stats so it matches most of the tanks in the game..nor did they take the chance to make the premium differ from the tech tree entry by giving it the HEAT rounds instead of HE, Tigers carried HEAT rounds sometimes.

 

As to everybody and their dog penetrating the Tiger I even when facing Tier 6...angle it 32-35 degrees, not 45 that was the official guideline during the war(just gets you ammoracked or tracked cause of WG's fine round physics). You'll start bouncing shots.

 



stormermp #19 Posted 07 July 2017 - 04:22 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 06 July 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Since I grinded through the Tiger I, I have been playing this tank infrequently, achieved 54% WR in it, mostly before the OP tier 8 prems came out.

 

Today, I tried to win a battle with Tiger I, which proved impossible. After 7 defeats in a row, I quit playing for the day.

The Tiger I can't defend itself even against tier 6 tanks.

EVERYTHING PENS EVERYWHERE. Angling is a joke.

Even tier 5 tanks pen its turret.

 

And then it faces the OP tier 8 prems... and even tier 9... :facepalm:

 

That my friendo would apply that the IS or t29 is the better tank or more advanced,and it's historically not.Tiger I was one of the best tanks of WWII,and you're just crapat tanking with it

Edited by stormermp, 07 July 2017 - 04:25 AM.


AliceUnchained #20 Posted 07 July 2017 - 07:47 AM

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View PostAvalancheZ257, on 06 July 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

 

Not quite. Most good British tanks above Tier VIII use the 120mm gun, which has absolutely no business 1 tier lower (ridiculous and gun handling DPM in that case). They should just remove the Churchill I or VII (why do we need 2 of almost the same tank?) and move the Black Prince and Caenarvon down a tier, then place a new tank in Tier VIII, and add the Chieftan or Super Conqueror as alternatives to the FV215b. 

 

Most would be just the 2, the Tier IX and X. heavy tanks. And Soviet heavies get 122 mm at Tier VI btw...




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