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Medium Tanks - Why Play Them At Tier6-8?


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:18 PM

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With all this 34-85M Marathon talk and my recent re-purchase and use of the standard T34-85 along with my terrible results in the Pilot it got me thinking just what exactly the point is of playing them from tier6-8. Now you may well say that's because I don't know how to play them and I would agree with you, I would never argue with the truth being delivered by the results I get with them. I don't get MTs.. I just not get what their point is at these tiers and why anyone bothers

 

Here is what I find puzzling about bothering with an MT at those tiers. In most all cases with the exception of a few like the Jumbo or that supper fast French MT.. which is a premium anyway I think.. when you compare nearly all the other MTs of tier6-8 with their LT or HT alternatives, the MTs have no gain in firepower over the LT, not fast enough to flank or zip around HTs and TDs and Arty like an LT, not fast enough to get out of trouble like an LT, doesn't have the constant moving camo bonus the LT has nor enough armour to be any more successful at bouncing a shot vs the guns it faces than a LT is.. so I always played LTs instead.. the LTTB the Bulldog the T35 the WZ131, WZ132 etc etc I found them massively better offerings than any MT same tier alternative.

 

Compare them to the HT same tier offerings then.. the MT typically has less firepower so that's not appealing, it is quicker than a HT but not really by anything that makes it stand out or of use apart from the odd cap reset. I don't play to reset caps I play to kill tanks.. The HT has bigger guns, and armour that actually works with sensible presentation to the enemy and even though slower can defend itself from the flanking attempts of MTs.. 

 

So there you have it, tier6-8 MTs, they are not fast enough to get out of trouble or flank slower tanks, not enough firepower to out brawl even an LT nor the armour to bounce anything much better than an LT can and will more often than not have it's backside served in a 1vs1 close-medium brawl with a HT so what is the point? why would I or anyone else bother with these tanks? You might say you should be supporting with an MT and I will say well yes but I can do that with an LT and also have many other tricks I can do with the LT than just support I can scout massively better and have the speed to get in and out of trouble and cut a HT to ribbons... you might say you can angle the MT for the odd bounce or bit of sidescrapping and I would say why don't I just use a HT then? A HT is far better at doing that and carries a huge gun so it's just a better tank for everything accept a little more mobility.. 

 

Why play tier6-8 MT then? Many do, and are good at it, but I only see this as players that would have done even better in an LT or HT instead tbh.

 

Edit- I almost forgot to give a shout to the Cromwell which like the Jumbo is a very good tier6 MT but these are actually not MTs rather other classes of tanks badged as MTs. The Cromwell has the speed and agility of an LT.. so it's basically playing an LT and the Jumbo is slow and with the armour of a strong HT so that's technically a HT.. these are exceptions to the rule and not at all typical MTs.. what makes those 2 great tanks is the fact they don't play or perform like typical tier6-8 MTs


Edited by TungstenHitman, 07 July 2017 - 09:33 PM.


Press2ForSkill #2 Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:31 PM

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tier 6 meds have quite a few really really nice tanks. tier 7-8 suck though i agree.

TungstenHitman #3 Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:41 PM

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View PostPress2ForSkill, on 07 July 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

tier 6 meds have quite a few really really nice tanks. tier 7-8 suck though i agree.

 

Well this is it and we know the tire9-10 MTs really step up to fantastic performing tanks especially the Russian offerings which are pretty much an early version of our modern day MBT ethos to tank design. I'm also not saying tier6-8 MTs are utter garbage they're ok.. I just don't see anything about them as being a better option at those tiers to LTs or HTs and therefore an illogical choice and making life harder for yourself at those tiers. This game is tough enough so why chose a tank that isn't as good as LTs or HTs at doing one job or the other... kind of a jack of all trades but in truth sucks at all the important attributes this game needs when compared to the other 2 classes mentioned.. not stealthy enough, not fast enough, not armoured enough, not gunned enough, not accurate enough, not penning enough, not anything at all enough really

Edited by TungstenHitman, 07 July 2017 - 09:43 PM.


Balc0ra #4 Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:43 PM

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.... I'll take my Cromwell B over any big fat tier 8 HT any day.... or my Comet or Leo. Tier 8 meds are tier for tier rather weak vs the rest indeed. Always have been. And seems to always will. Exception is still the 416 tho. As that's not really a medium as such.

Edited by Balc0ra, 07 July 2017 - 09:44 PM.


TungstenHitman #5 Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:46 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 07 July 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

.... I'll take my Cromwell B over any big fat tier 8 HT any day.... or my Comet or Leo.

 

Nope, Cromwell doesn't count, the Cromwell moves and plays like an LT so it's being so LT like which makes this tank great. Same for the Jumbo, great tank, but that's because it's armoured to the gunnels and plays like a HT.. it's the fact these two tanks don't play like MTs of their tier or have the same lamish handicaps of MTs of their tier which make the Cromwell and Jumbo so good, not being anything like an MT makes these MTs good lol

TungstenHitman #6 Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:49 PM

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..I expect very little replies, I dare say, even so early in this threads life, that most agree, mightn't want to agree because they love their tier6-8 MTs but agree non the less that they are simply not as good at doing the job a LT or HT does and that this middle man role really delivers performances that are underachieving from what they would get if using a LT or HT same tier option instead

Edited by TungstenHitman, 07 July 2017 - 09:51 PM.


trispect #7 Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:09 PM

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No other reason then get to tier 9 where they are all competitive. Apart maybe Centurion.

 

I've really been wondering a long time about tier 8 and I have been about of opening a topic about it but haven't got around it. Why is tier 8 "heavy tank tier"? Mediums don't really have anything over heavies. DPM is the same, heavies (at least most) have more pen, more armor, view range difference isn't anything special, mobility isn't that great and gun handling isn't that awesome.

 

Jump to tier 9 and mediums take huge leap in performance and really stand out as a class of it's own. Tier 8 mediums should have significant gun handling and penetration buffs and DPM buffs of around 200. 



WindSplitter1 #8 Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:10 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 07 July 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

 

Nope, Cromwell doesn't count, the Cromwell moves and plays like an LT so it's being so LT like which makes this tank great. Same for the Jumbo, great tank, but that's because it's armoured to the gunnels and plays like a HT.. it's the fact these two tanks don't play like MTs of their tier or have the same lamish handicaps of MTs of their tier which make the Cromwell and Jumbo so good, not being anything like an MT makes these MTs good lol

 

I played a stock Cromie. It was bad ofc but I never cared about the line. British line could really use some love. It's safe to say that no relevant changes have been made on it for ages.

 

Fully agree on the Jumbo. Hulldown + stronk stock turret + durp = :D

 

On topic, apart from the Jumbo I hardly see any reason to play a med



TungstenHitman #9 Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:22 PM

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View Posttrispect, on 07 July 2017 - 09:09 PM, said:

No other reason then get to tier 9 where they are all competitive. Apart maybe Centurion.

 

I've really been wondering a long time about tier 8 and I have been about of opening a topic about it but haven't got around it. Why is tier 8 "heavy tank tier"? Mediums don't really have anything over heavies. DPM is the same, heavies (at least most) have more pen, more armor, view range difference isn't anything special, mobility isn't that great and gun handling isn't that awesome.

 

Jump to tier 9 and mediums take huge leap in performance and really stand out as a class of it's own. Tier 8 mediums should have significant gun handling and penetration buffs and DPM buffs of around 200. 

 

Exactly, and at tier8 HTs kinda split into either slower big armoured lumps or mobile options so it's like.. why would I play a T25 Pilot or any other MT I can buy or grind when I can do better in all instances with an IS3 or Patriot or Defender etc etc..

TungstenHitman #10 Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:31 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 07 July 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

 

I played a stock Cromie. It was bad ofc but I never cared about the line. British line could really use some love. It's safe to say that no relevant changes have been made on it for ages.

 

Fully agree on the Jumbo. Hulldown + stronk stock turret + durp = :D

 

On topic, apart from the Jumbo I hardly see any reason to play a med

 

lol.. well this all came about when I was playing the T34-85 recently with the 85mm.. the LTs raced off and around, the HTs brawled and pressed, they TDs sniped, Arties dropped bombs and I was sort of like.. what the f*** am I supposed to be doing? pushed forward with the HTs, enemy tanks saw me and favored shooting my much weaker armour.. so I stayed back and the accuracy and aim time made a more campy, lame style frustrating and missing way too many shots so I went off with an LT and got seen wayyyyyyyyy before he did so was collecting shots as I lunged in behind for cover.. the gun didn't really have enough pen to punch through very much so I had to switch to gold.. it just didn't have any real place that was better at doing anything the other classes were doing and I was like a complete moron noob with 100 battles trying to figure what the hell was all this about.. the only saving grace was switching to derp and at this it offered a reasonably mobile derp tank.. and that is ALL I found this MT could offer that most LTs couldn't and had an almost semi-artillery role.. was ok.. very situation.. very "lap of the rng Gods" style, can get 500dmg can get 10dmg  can miss fully aimed by laughably wide margins but was fun and at least felt like had some sort of reason for doing what I was doing

MarcoStrapone #11 Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:37 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 07 July 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

With all this 34-85M Marathon talk and my recent re-purchase and use of the standard T34-85 along with my terrible results in the Pilot it got me thinking just what exactly the point is of playing them from tier6-8. Now you may well say that's because I don't know how to play them and I would agree with you, I would never argue with the truth being delivered by the results I get with them. I don't get MTs.. I just not get what their point is at these tiers and why anyone bothers

 

Here is what I find puzzling about bothering with an MT at those tiers. In most all cases with the exception of a few like the Jumbo or that supper fast French MT.. which is a premium anyway I think.. when you compare nearly all the other MTs of tier6-8 with their LT or HT alternatives, the MTs have no gain in firepower over the LT, not fast enough to flank or zip around HTs and TDs and Arty like an LT, not fast enough to get out of trouble like an LT, doesn't have the constant moving camo bonus the LT has nor enough armour to be any more successful at bouncing a shot vs the guns it faces than a LT is.. so I always played LTs instead.. the LTTB the Bulldog the T35 the WZ131, WZ132 etc etc I found them massively better offerings than any MT same tier alternative.

 

Compare them to the HT same tier offerings then.. the MT typically has less firepower so that's not appealing, it is quicker than a HT but not really by anything that makes it stand out or of use apart from the odd cap reset. I don't play to reset caps I play to kill tanks.. The HT has bigger guns, and armour that actually works with sensible presentation to the enemy and even though slower can defend itself from the flanking attempts of MTs..

 

So there you have it, tier6-8 MTs, they are not fast enough to get out of trouble or flank slower tanks, not enough firepower to out brawl even an LT nor the armour to bounce anything much better than an LT can and will more often than not have it's backside served in a 1vs1 close-medium brawl with a HT so what is the point? why would I or anyone else bother with these tanks? You might say you should be supporting with an MT and I will say well yes but I can do that with an LT and also have many other tricks I can do with the LT than just support I can scout massively better and have the speed to get in and out of trouble and cut a HT to ribbons... you might say you can angle the MT for the odd bounce or bit of sidescrapping and I would say why don't I just use a HT then? A HT is far better at doing that and carries a huge gun so it's just a better tank for everything accept a little more mobility..

 

Why play tier6-8 MT then? Many do, and are good at it, but I only see this as players that would have done even better in an LT or HT instead tbh.

 

Edit- I almost forgot to give a shout to the Cromwell which like the Jumbo is a very good tier6 MT but these are actually not MTs rather other classes of tanks badged as MTs. The Cromwell has the speed and agility of an LT.. so it's basically playing an LT and the Jumbo is slow and with the armour of a strong HT so that's technically a HT.. these are exceptions to the rule and not at all typical MTs.. what makes those 2 great tanks is the fact they don't play or perform like typical tier6-8 MTs

 

you can make some credits?:confused:

Balc0ra #12 Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:40 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 07 July 2017 - 09:46 PM, said:

 

Nope, Cromwell doesn't count, the Cromwell moves and plays like an LT so it's being so LT like which makes this tank great. Same for the Jumbo, great tank, but that's because it's armoured to the gunnels and plays like a HT.. it's the fact these two tanks don't play like MTs of their tier or have the same lamish handicaps of MTs of their tier which make the Cromwell and Jumbo so good, not being anything like an MT makes these MTs good lol

 

Well then... I would still take my Strv 74, Skoda T25 or even my Chi-To or Chi-Ri "yes I do in fact love those two tanks" over any sluggish tier 8 HT etc. Even if I got +2 all day. Basically any tier 6 medium... with the exception of the Pz IV S. As tier 6 & 7 mediums is where I have the most fun. Even with the new MM. It's where all my go to tanks are if I get bored of high tiers, or my grinds is not working that day. They just work for me.



spuff #13 Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:29 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 07 July 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

Well then... I would still take my Strv 74, Skoda T25 or even my Chi-To or Chi-Ri "yes I do in fact love those two tanks" over any sluggish tier 8 HT etc. Even if I got +2 all day. Basically any tier 6 medium... with the exception of the Pz IV S. As tier 6 & 7 mediums is where I have the most fun. Even with the new MM. It's where all my go to tanks are if I get bored of high tiers, or my grinds is not working that day. They just work for me.

Chi-to was a real gem of a find. Had so much fun in that tank. Chi-ri has its moments too. 

Most of my keeper tanks tiers 6 upwards are mediums, only heavies I've kept after unlocking next tier are vk36, t29 and will keep e75 too. Not really kept any tier 8 meds though other than premiums. 

I find most mediums of the middle tiers are not too god at one thing, they are just very flexible. You can use them for many different play styles and adapt as the battle progresses. Yes a few could do with little buffs (mainly a bit of dpm or terrain resistance) but on the whole they are just good tanks. Give them a try OP, there are some real gems in there that may just surprise you. 

 



PowJay #14 Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:36 AM

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The thing about meds is that they are often- but not always...

 

1. Fast enough to be versatile. Their mobility allows you to scout, flank, harass engaged enemies, relocate, rush cap or reset.

 

2. Powerful enough to take on enemy vehicles. While LTs may be able to do all of the above, they have to be able to pen when they get there.

 

3. Armoured enough to survive when they get there. At least for a short while.

 

Mediums are just that: a nice balance between all of the basic tank factors of mobility, firepower and protection- with the exception of the UK Infantry tanks, maybe. I have done well in some, although badly in others,


 

My tier VI to VIII mediums are currently

 

 

I have the T28 Pilot, but I am not very good in it. I am also presently grinding the Centurion I, and I can do well in it but I am struggling a little.



NiemandXL #15 Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:40 AM

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Tier 6 mediums are ok. A few of them are really good and most heavies at that tier have awful view range so it's not that hard to outplay them. Tier 7-8 mediums on the other hand are complete garbage and have been for a very long time.



malachi6 #16 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:01 AM

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So if we disagree with you.  it's not becasue we disagree. rather, some kind of loyalty to favourite tanks?  You realise tanks are favourites becasue people do well in them?

 

Your comment precludes counter argument,  You may as well have made this post blocked. as you insist your assertion is the correct one.


Edited by malachi6, 08 July 2017 - 09:02 AM.


Enforcer1975 #17 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:14 AM

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Tier 7-8 didn't feel that bad until the latest brainfart of you know who...you know, one or two broken tanks were tolerable now it's just too many and i'd rather play sele ted tier 4 tanks to get credits and play tier 9 for the lolz because that's the only tier for now that isn't screwed by MM even when tooning. Would have been better to spread the premium tanks in tier 7-8 instead of overpopulating tier 8.

TungstenHitman #18 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:16 AM

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View Postmalachi6, on 08 July 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

So if we disagree with you.  it's not becasue we disagree. rather, some kind of loyalty to favourite tanks?  You realise tanks are favourites becasue people do well in them?

 

Indeed and I'd suggest that in those battles you're doing well in with those favorite mediums you'd have done better in with an LT or HT depending on the playstyle used for that MT. I just cannot see based on their stats, that using that favorite MT from tier 6-8 gave you any edge over an LT or HT alternative but in fact compromised a potentially better round



TungstenHitman #19 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:27 AM

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View Postmalachi6, on 08 July 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

You may as well have made this post blocked. as you insist your assertion is the correct one.

Umm... just no.. and insisting on being correct was never implied rather a personal evaluation of the tier 6-8 MTs and my own personal opinion. This doesn't mean it's the correct opinion but with the exception of the Cromwell and Jumbo I feel I'd be able to counter any suggested MT of these tiers with a better LT or HT option to improve results on the playstyle applied to that MT... and that the MTs slightly better speed than the HT and slightly better armour than the LT is not as such as to make them in anyway more useful to decline the LT or HT option since they are not fast enough to do anything other than reset a cap and not armoured enough to out brawl a HT or effectively able to use that armour to stop a shot any better than an LT.. this is all I'm saying but insisting this is correct? Not at all


Edited by TungstenHitman, 08 July 2017 - 09:30 AM.


Press2ForSkill #20 Posted 08 July 2017 - 02:37 PM

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Tier 6 strv  premium autoloader? A43? T34 85? all great tier 6 meds.




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