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[Q] Why is platooning actively punished in the new Matchmaker?

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Cobra6 #1 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:18 AM

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Hey guys,

 

Recently I started platooning again in randoms because some of my old friends have started playing again and we were looking to have a good time like in the old days.

 

However, it looks like the new matchmaker is actively punishing platooning for some reason since we were never even once top tier, the best we got was same tier MM.

Over the past couple of days we've platooned every day, yesterday in E-25 and Lorraine and most of the matches you are simply chucked in the bottom tier. Getting T10 MM in your tier 8 pretty much every match you play really saps the fun out of the experience.

The only way to no get punished is to play tier 10 tanks or possibly T9 (since they don't care much about MM).

 

Why hasn't this been hotfixed yet because I really doubt (and hope) this is not deliberate on WG's part?

 

I've loaded all the replays in the ReplayAnalyser to check for the tier spread but it seems that column was removed somehow, I'll try to find another analyser to get some numbers to back up this claim.

 

Edit 1:

But the thing is, when we were playing the E-25 we got into matches with T8 tanks top, but they were consistently top tier yet never platooned.

On the other hand, we as a platoon playing T8's only got into T10 matches, never T8 top.

This means that solo players at least have a chance to become top tier while being in a platoon is guarantee to pretty much always be bottom tier.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 08 July 2017 - 10:04 AM.


Shizuthink #2 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:28 AM

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Yeah, if you don't play tier 9/10, your platoon is pretty much screwed when it comes to the MM.

japtank #3 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:32 AM

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I only get tier X games when playing tier VIII alone, mind you.

I see no difference when platooning with my son, we have no other choice than playing tanks that can do well bottom tier.



Mimos_A #4 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:36 AM

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It's not actively punished, it's just a consequence of the numbers. If there's only three top tier spots available it's quite likely at least one of them is already filled, so a  platoon gets pushed somewhere else... It's silly as hell and they should fix this sort of stuff.



NiemandXL #5 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:59 AM

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It's truly amazing what a boundless capacity Wargaming has for making bad decisions. Punishing people for playing with their friends in an MMO is soooooo stupid that it boggles my mind how they could have thought that was a good idea. Social interactions are one of the main aspects that keep an MMO alive. You simply do not punish people for socializing with their friends in-game. Smarter developer encourage such interactions because they know that it's helps the game and increases player retention.

Cobra6 #6 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:59 AM

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View PostMimos_A, on 08 July 2017 - 08:36 AM, said:

It's not actively punished, it's just a consequence of the numbers. If there's only three top tier spots available it's quite likely at least one of them is already filled, so a  platoon gets pushed somewhere else... It's silly as hell and they should fix this sort of stuff.

 

But the thing is, when we were playing the E-25 we got into matches with T8 tanks top, but they were consistently top tier yet never platooned.

On the other hand, we as a platoon playing T8's only got into T10 matches, never T8 top.

 

Cobra 6



Dr_ownape #7 Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:05 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 08 July 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

 

But the thing is, when we were playing the E-25 we got into matches with T8 tanks top, but they were consistently top tier yet never platooned.

On the other hand, we as a platoon playing T8's only got into T10 matches, never T8 top.

 

Cobra 6

 

there are plaenty of other threads about this very issue, surprised you havent read them and added to it. However I'm grateful for another new one to add to the list. Wg might (OK LOL) see this issue and address it.

 

I've not platooned since 9.18 unless playing 9/10 as it's just suicide to do so. However i note that a 322 member mentioned his recent WR has improved by 10% since then in toons; i doubt it as it's a bold claim but if so then perhaps we are all just blinkered as he has statistical proof.

View Post0gata, on 29 June 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

 

"Ok, so now you are going for the ad Hominem approach because your argument has been dismembered. "

 

 where with what is my argument dismembered ?

 

heres a link with the FACTS:

  http://www.wotinfo.n...6-2017&till=now

 

so no matter what u or me say  .. NUMBERS NEVER LIE .. if it was like u trying to spin of here your opinions those numbers would said different story ..

im saying MM is great now way better then it was before .. and i have facts to prove that ..on other hand u just wanna to argue and  talk and talk without any proff of what ua re saying .. u just complaining nothing else no matter what reality is for u its just not good .. or u just wanna to Troll here

 

 

I've been watching the toons in my games since 9.18 and have never seen (might have missed 1/2) a toon as top tier unless 10 or single tier battle - and i have replays


Edited by Drownape, 08 July 2017 - 10:09 AM.


XOR42 #8 Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:23 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 08 July 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

However, it looks like the new matchmaker is actively punishing platooning for some reason since we were never even once top tier, the best we got was same tier MM.

Over the past couple of days we've platooned every day, yesterday in E-25 and Lorraine and most of the matches you are simply chucked in the bottom tier. Getting T10 MM in your tier 8 pretty much every match you play really saps the fun out of the experience.

The only way to no get punished is to play tier 10 tanks or possibly T9 (since they don't care much about MM).

 

Yup and nope. That is the observable effect but I don't think it's actively punishing. I just think the MM algorithm is simplistic in the sense that it is balancing tiers and tanks types on your and the enemies team making platoons have an exponentially lower chance of getting the higher spots. Basically, a platoon brings much more "baggage" in terms of conditions to be met for them to get a slot on a team, especially if they have mixed classes.



Mimos_A #9 Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:46 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 08 July 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

But the thing is, when we were playing the E-25 we got into matches with T8 tanks top, but they were consistently top tier yet never platooned.

On the other hand, we as a platoon playing T8's only got into T10 matches, never T8 top.

 

Cobra 6

That's exactly what I'm saying... There's only 3 top tier spots, it's more likely that the limited spots that are available will be filled by solo players as the mm can shove them in in a match with one of two people in it, while it needs two or three empty spots to make a platoon top tier. It's not actively punished, it's just a lot less likely to happen.



wsatnutter #10 Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:54 AM

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I agree with the OP. It may not be punishment but it sure feels like it. 

Balc0ra #11 Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:58 AM

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Had a 3 man E25 platoon a few days ago.. mid day, EU2. Played about 15 games. Most of our +1 games were 5-10. we had one 3-5-7 game as bottom tier. And we had 4 games as top tier in a 5-10 game. And one in a 3-5-10 game. But most of them in +1 5-10 indeed.

 

But as pointed out in the Q&A before 9.18 and in the patch notes somewhere. Platooning was "fixed" due to the feedback about platoons not being balanced. There have been a few topics about it on EU, but not spammed to notice it as a "big concern". But basically most thought it unfair that some teams got top tier platoons, and their team only got lower tier platoons. New MM makes sure platoons are on equal tiers. I suspect this along with however the new platoon MM works now makes for a bad mix.

 

Now not something I've noticed as "bad" on mid tiers. But def on high tiers.... especially tier 8 pem platoons.


Edited by Balc0ra, 08 July 2017 - 11:00 AM.


RhoncusNitri #12 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:01 AM

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Yep working as intended but yes punishes people that want to platoon for fun. I actively disbelieve WG stats as when you take your own over statistically effective range and it shows that you are generally pushed to the bottom then it is obvious.

 

Waiting for WG to start deleting threads that disagree with them.

 

And havent they started to wonder why the number of active players is dropping.........



Steeltank141 #13 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:03 AM

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The only tier i enjoy atm is tier 9. In tier 8 you always see tier 10 and when you get a tier 10 out of your garage, you end up in a  full clan wars setup. Its just meh

Dr_ownape #14 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:08 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 08 July 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Had a 3 man E25 platoon a few days ago.. mid day, EU2. Played about 15 games. Most of our +1 games were 5-10. we had one 3-5-7 game as bottom tier.

 

:amazed:



250swb #15 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:11 AM

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But looking on the bright side we've not had as many/any retarded Cromwell (or similar) platoons lately, so every cloud has a silver lining.

Temid23 #16 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:23 AM

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[A] 1. WG coders are to lazy/dumb to do any kind of semi complicated work: fixing one player platoon exploit...

[A] 2. All idiots who abused this exploit, triggered people mentioned in point 1. to just blanket fock all platoons.

 

So you have combination of tarded people both in community and company responsible for all this mess :medal:



Cobra6 #17 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:25 AM

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View PostDrownape, on 08 July 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

 

I've not platooned since 9.18 unless playing 9/10 as it's just suicide to do so. However i note that a 322 member mentioned his recent WR has improved by 10% since then in toons; i doubt it as it's a bold claim but if so then perhaps we are all just blinkered as he has statistical proof.

 

Mine has dropped by 10% more or less which is why I brought it up.

 

Being consistently bottom tier leaves very little room to carry, especially as a T8 in T10 matches or as an E-25 against Defenders.

 

Cobra 6



Tidal_Force #18 Posted 08 July 2017 - 12:20 PM

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View PostMimos_A, on 08 July 2017 - 08:36 AM, said:

It's not actively punished, it's just a consequence of the numbers. If there's only three top tier spots available it's quite likely at least one of them is already filled, so a  platoon gets pushed somewhere else... It's silly as hell and they should fix this sort of stuff.

 

If so, then it's bad design - they didn't examine all the consequences, or they did and they are fine with them in which case it is punishing players indeed. For end user, both options are indifferentiable.

 

View PostDrownape, on 08 July 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

 

there are plaenty of other threads about this very issue, surprised you havent read them and added to it. However I'm grateful for another new one to add to the list. Wg might (OK LOL) see this issue and address it.

 

I've not platooned since 9.18 unless playing 9/10 as it's just suicide to do so. However i note that a 322 member mentioned his recent WR has improved by 10% since then in toons; i doubt it as it's a bold claim but if so then perhaps we are all just blinkered as he has statistical proof.

 

I've been watching the toons in my games since 9.18 and have never seen (might have missed 1/2) a toon as top tier unless 10 or single tier battle - and i have replays

 

That post in no way implies any wr in platoons. In fact, if you search thread, in his second post in entire thread, 0gata says he plays 99% solo. Cursory check shows that 0gata talks about consistency of MM: he enjoys fact that at worst there are only 3 +2Tier tanks, instead of potentially 14 such tanks, nothing to do with platoons.

 

View PostBalc0ra, on 08 July 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Had a 3 man E25 platoon a few days ago.. mid day, EU2. Played about 15 games. Most of our +1 games were 5-10. we had one 3-5-7 game as bottom tier. And we had 4 games as top tier in a 5-10 game. And one in a 3-5-10 game. But most of them in +1 5-10 indeed.

 

But as pointed out in the Q&A before 9.18 and in the patch notes somewhere. Platooning was "fixed" due to the feedback about platoons not being balanced. There have been a few topics about it on EU, but not spammed to notice it as a "big concern". But basically most thought it unfair that some teams got top tier platoons, and their team only got lower tier platoons. New MM makes sure platoons are on equal tiers. I suspect this along with however the new platoon MM works now makes for a bad mix.

 

Now not something I've noticed as "bad" on mid tiers. But def on high tiers.... especially tier 8 pem platoons.

 

How the heck do you get bottom tier games in E25?

TIGERMARK3 #19 Posted 08 July 2017 - 12:22 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 08 July 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

Hey guys,

 

Recently I started platooning again in randoms because some of my old friends have started playing again and we were looking to have a good time like in the old days.

 

However, it looks like the new matchmaker is actively punishing platooning for some reason since we were never even once top tier, the best we got was same tier MM.

Over the past couple of days we've platooned every day, yesterday in E-25 and Lorraine and most of the matches you are simply chucked in the bottom tier. Getting T10 MM in your tier 8 pretty much every match you play really saps the fun out of the experience.

The only way to no get punished is to play tier 10 tanks or possibly T9 (since they don't care much about MM).

 

Why hasn't this been hotfixed yet because I really doubt (and hope) this is not deliberate on WG's part?

 

I've loaded all the replays in the ReplayAnalyser to check for the tier spread but it seems that column was removed somehow, I'll try to find another analyser to get some numbers to back up this claim.

 

Edit 1:

But the thing is, when we were playing the E-25 we got into matches with T8 tanks top, but they were consistently top tier yet never platooned.

On the other hand, we as a platoon playing T8's only got into T10 matches, never T8 top.

This means that solo players at least have a chance to become top tier while being in a platoon is guarantee to pretty much always be bottom tier.

 

Cobra 6

 

New update is irrelevant. I always got bottom tiered when I used to platoon. Especially for the first couple of games.

Cobra6 #20 Posted 08 July 2017 - 12:46 PM

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View PostTidal_Force, on 08 July 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

How the heck do you get bottom tier games in E25?

 

Simple, you get a  Tier 8 match with some T7 tanks when platooned in an E-25. You never get a T7 match with T6/T5 tanks.

 

Cobra 6







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