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About these illegal mods.


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Rockomax #1 Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:33 PM

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WG said that they would start to handle illegal mods better a few patches ago.
Of course players will claim illegal mods left and right, but are unable to provide any evidence, like the WG staff will ask for when "forbidden" mods are used.

Getting proof of this is extremely hard, because when is something skill or when is there a cheat involved. Hard to say in my opinion.
However, there is a indirect proof that illegal mods are still used quite a lot.
A simple Google search will provide several maintained websites that offer various illegal mods.

No one in their right mind will keep up a website and update mods if they are not being used.
Perhaps instead of trying to detect illegal mod users in game, maybe Wargaming should look into shutting providers down.

Just saying, as long as there is demand, there will be supply.



Laatikkomafia #2 Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:42 PM

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WG can't shut down websites that provide forbidden mods - as the sites aren't breaking any actual laws.

Jigabachi #3 Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:49 PM

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Block Quote

 However, there is a indirect proof that illegal mods are still used quite a lot.
A simple Google search will provide several maintained websites that offer various illegal mods.

That isn't proof, that's just speculation.

I don't see any way to find out how widespread those mods are - except of asking a deluded tomato of course. Those know everything.

 

Judging by WG's ban waves is rather pointless, you don't know what kind of mods they detected and how well it works.

Judging by those Google finds is even less reliable, because lots of those pages are scams. I know that from the BF series...

 

 

Anyway, shutting those portals down is close to impossible. You know... it's the internet.



Rockomax #4 Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:06 PM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 08 July 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

WG can't shut down websites that provide forbidden mods - as the sites aren't breaking any actual laws.

 

Sadly this is true, but my post is mostly concerning the fact that these providers still exist.

View PostJigabachi, on 08 July 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

That isn't proof, that's just speculation.

I don't see any way to find out how widespread those mods are - except of asking a deluded tomato of course. Those know everything.

 

Judging by WG's ban waves is rather pointless, you don't know what kind of mods they detected and how well it works.

Judging by those Google finds is even less reliable, because lots of those pages are scams. I know that from the BF series...

 

 

Anyway, shutting those portals down is close to impossible. You know... it's the internet.

 

I didn't say it was water tight proof, just saying it's indirect proof.
As for how many people download and use those mods, I am sure these websites are not run on 10 visits per month.

From the third ban wave, there were almost 3200 people penalized because off illegal third party mods on EU servers.
Which is quite a lot considering on average there are about 30k people online on either EU1 or EU2 each day. Possibly 10% of players use illegal mods going by those numbers.

Only real solution is banning mods altogether. Make some effort in communicating with community contributors, making sure that legal mods which are popular will make it into the standard game ( as optional feature ) 

captainpigg #5 Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:13 PM

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And just how would you stop mod usage completely? Let me guess, remove res mod folder right? Like there weren't mods around before it existed, in fact aren't most of the illegal mods not even installed there anyway?

Edited by captainpigg, 08 July 2017 - 08:13 PM.


Rockomax #6 Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:36 PM

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View Postcaptainpigg, on 08 July 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

And just how would you stop mod usage completely? Let me guess, remove res mod folder right? Like there weren't mods around before it existed, in fact aren't most of the illegal mods not even installed there anyway?

 

Trying to be smart about it doesn't help with the discussion.
I am not a programmer nor do I have any in sight on how the WOT engine works, but removing mod compatibility should making detecting third party programs easier to detect,

Reason for making this topic was having an intelligent discussion about illegal mod usage. Not interested in people just saying "It can't be done"

Homer_J #7 Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:58 PM

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View PostRockomax, on 08 July 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

 

No one in their right mind will keep up a website and update mods if they are not being used.
 

 

A website costs next to nothing to run, even less if you can take over someone else's site which a lot of the scammers do.

 

And just because cheats are being sold doesn't mean they work.  Who are you going to complain to if you get ripped off?



captainpigg #8 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:00 PM

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The only thing that I can think of that would nearly 100% work, would be to completely scan the game files each and every time for illegal files, which could up take to 30min each time. Frankly I would rather play with cheaters than that. This system, done at random to a small selection of the playerbase, along with a small gold compensation, is something I've suggested before that could work. Might be a nice punishment to those caught for cheating as well, 6 months of scans each time they play, with no compensation.

 

The thing is even as I was writing this I remembered a way to beat this, with something like Texmod you could use stuff like hitskins (and before anyone says that's not illegal, it bloody well should be) and it wouldn't be detected as it's in a different folder, with Texmod inserting them ingame.



Rockomax #9 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:03 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 08 July 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

 

A website costs next to nothing to run, even less if you can take over someone else's site which a lot of the scammers do.

 

And just because cheats are being sold doesn't mean they work.  Who are you going to complain to if you get ripped off?

 

3200 people penalized shows these mods work.
It's not about cost, it's about effort in keeping things up to date.



Jigabachi #10 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:04 PM

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Banning mods all together would probably make it easier to detect mods, but if I understand it correctly, the efficiency of anti cheat software highly depends on the architecture of your game.
ESL had one. Did that one work properly?

CmdPrompt #11 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:08 PM

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View Postcaptainpigg, on 08 July 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

The only thing that I can think of that would nearly 100% work, would be to completely scan the game files each and every time for illegal files, which could up take to 30min each time.

 

isn't this how the current detection works? 2 of my clanmates got a 7day ban and their res_mods was completely empty (after the ban ofc)

Edited by CmdPrompt, 08 July 2017 - 09:09 PM.


Cannes76 #12 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:10 PM

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View PostRockomax, on 08 July 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

 

Sadly this is true, but my post is mostly concerning the fact that these providers still exist.

 

I didn't say it was water tight proof, just saying it's indirect proof.
As for how many people download and use those mods, I am sure these websites are not run on 10 visits per month.

From the third ban wave, there were almost 3200 people penalized because off illegal third party mods on EU servers.
Which is quite a lot considering on average there are about 30k people online on either EU1 or EU2 each day. Possibly 10% of players use illegal mods going by those numbers.

Only real solution is banning mods altogether. Make some effort in communicating with community contributors, making sure that legal mods which are popular will make it into the standard game ( as optional feature ) 

Your average users per day is way way off. 30k online on average per server translates to 2-300 thousand users or more per day.



CmdRatScabies #13 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:13 PM

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View PostCmdPrompt, on 08 July 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

 

.... their res_mods was completely empty (after the ban ofc)

 

And before the ban? :)

Edited by CmdRatScabies, 08 July 2017 - 09:13 PM.


Homer_J #14 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:15 PM

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View PostRockomax, on 08 July 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

 

3200 people penalized shows these mods work.
 

 

You have no idea which mods people were banned for, you are putting two and two together and getting 7.

 

Quote

It's not about cost, it's about effort in keeping things up to date.

 

When your business is scamming people out of their money then there's plenty of reason to keep your website updated.



Rockomax #15 Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:59 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 08 July 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

 

You have no idea which mods people were banned for, you are putting two and two together and getting 7.


I am  not naming any mods in specific either.

 

Block Quote

 The work on creating a fairer, more fun experience for every player continues. Lately, a further 3,186 accounts were penalized for using illegal third-party modifications; 833 repeat offenders received permanent bans.

 

 


Edited by Rockomax, 08 July 2017 - 10:00 PM.


Steel_Patriot #16 Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:32 PM

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Remember the Best and really seemingly  least used illegal mod in wot is between most folks shoulders . Pity most cant use it cuz its free to use.   Guy sits on a hill and dies "HAX".  You tear him/her a new one in 1v1 because you were using your tanks strong points and bouncing shells " HAX"   Don't forget pressing "2" = HAX.

Just add more to the list



Rockomax #17 Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:58 PM

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View PostSteel_Patriot, on 08 July 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Remember the Best and really seemingly  least used illegal mod in wot is between most folks shoulders . Pity most cant use it cuz its free to use.   Guy sits on a hill and dies "HAX".  You tear him/her a new one in 1v1 because you were using your tanks strong points and bouncing shells " HAX"   Don't forget pressing "2" = HAX.

Just add more to the list

 

I am amazed how easily people reason that there are people that know reasonably how to play and immediately reason that illegal mods are no longer an issue. 
Not towards you personally Steel_patriot

CmdPrompt #18 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:04 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 08 July 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

 

And before the ban? :)

 

full of tundra and arty auto aim :facepalm:

Balc0ra #19 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:37 PM

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View PostRockomax, on 08 July 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

 

I am amazed how easily people reason that there are people that know reasonably how to play and immediately reason that illegal mods are no longer an issue. 
Not towards you personally Steel_patriot

 

No one said they are not an issue. You have two kinds of people on this. Those that think half the enemy team in every single match use it. And those that might suspect 1 player a day. And the first bunch is the reason why WG removed the "report a cheat" option. As everyone used all their 10 reports, on the first one that did damage their ammo rack each day. There are people that cheat. But until we see some solid numbers. We don't really know how big of an issue it is... or little even. But most of the tinfoil hat users have it, as they lack a more basic understanding of how the core game works. Thus everyone is using spot hacks and ammo rack hacks.

 

Yes it's not easy to prove someone cheated. But then again.. what do you base your suspicious on when you wonder if they are hacking? I'm not afraid to say it. Yes people use forbidden mods. No we don't know how widespread it is. But the biggest issue is not the mod users "they are don't get me wrong".  But everyone that thinks everyone use mods. As that paranoia spreads. Thus everyone is more suspicious the instant someone pre aims on them, or hits their modules constantly way more then they would normally. Or before they heard about "mods". Thus... it seems bigger then it is at times for most.

 

 



Phobos4321 #20 Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:54 PM

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its partly resembles witch hunts

 

dare to strike a ammorack ? you hacked

pre aim ? you hacked

blindshots in typical scout bushes ? you hacked for sure

shooting at the last spotted position of a camper with an arty ? you hacked

angling your armor? bounce because armor hack

hitting a snapshot? aimbot

high pen. roll ? penetration hack

 

mostly everthing further than being afk and getting easy killed might lead towards someone claiming you cheated one way or another

 

i cant know it,

i cant prove it, 

is there a point in believing everyone i met is a cheater ? besides its excuse function : if they hadnt cheated i would got 16 kills/ won the match alone/ would be a super unicum  ... whatever






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