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Buff the gun on the Leopard for the love of god...


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jajara666 #1 Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:55 AM

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Gun handling sucks aiming time is a lie and accuracy is falling short of what it is supposed to be doing.  

Beltalowda #2 Posted 09 July 2017 - 03:54 PM

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Although I do agree with you on those gun stats, there is this little thing why I don't want Leo 1 to be buffed. Almost every tank which has been overbuffed, was later on nerfed to oblivion, do you really want to see that happen to Leo 1 ? 

Leave it as it is and they might not make it even worse then it is now.



Dr_Oolen #3 Posted 09 July 2017 - 04:18 PM

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View PostTrewSx, on 09 July 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

Although I do agree with you on those gun stats, there is this little thing why I don't want Leo 1 to be buffed. Almost every tank which has been overbuffed, was later on nerfed to oblivion, do you really want to see that happen to Leo 1 ? 

Leave it as it is and they might not make it even worse then it is now.

 

The thing is, even if leopard got buffs as huge as maus got, unlike maus it would still be at best average tank. Also i dont think buffing dpm and gun handling should be the be-all-end-all way to buff tanks as has become the norm on wgs side. Buffing those simply leads to runaway powercreep and leads to even more imbalance down the road as the more dpm/effective dpm there is the faster a game will snowball and become a landslide (well, ht/mt imbalance and skill contribute more to it, but this is a part of it). 

 

I wouldnt personally be too afraid of other sorts of buffs that would keep some character of the vehicle. As buffing gun handling+dpm whenever a tank gets buffed basically means every tank in the game ends up being exactly the same as every other. Also, its quite obvious that accuracy and "sniping capabilities" of tanks are grossly overrated by wg and such tanks are overnerfed in everything else. They could easily exaggerate these "sniping" characteristics to actually make a difference in real games. Currently accuracy means literally nothing and 0.3 guns could just as well be 0.36 and it wouldnt make practical difference, given the lolwut shell distribution and considering all the rng and weakspots, guns become barely accurate (as in, the accuracy being worth having and giving some advantage in practice) at maybe something like 0.23-0.24. And theres what, 2 tanks with such accuracy in the whole game?

 

Why not buff leopard along these lines:

- acc 0.3 -> 0.2

- aimtime 1.9 -> 1.3

- apcr pen 268 -> 288

- shell velocity 1478 -> 1650

 

Wouldnt make the tank just another copypaste of every other t10 med through the usual dpm and gun handling buffs and would actually give the tank real and noticeable advantage in some areas, as in - ability to basically pen with every shot without having to spam heat 24/7. And with such buffs it wouldnt still be even close to op, merely actually being better than other tanks in some aspects.


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 09 July 2017 - 04:22 PM.


Beltalowda #4 Posted 09 July 2017 - 04:28 PM

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Maybe WG should hire you to their balancing team, I'll be more then happy to give you good references.

Cannes76 #5 Posted 09 July 2017 - 04:29 PM

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Looks to me that those buffs would make it severly OP

Nishi_Kinuyo #6 Posted 09 July 2017 - 04:44 PM

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Can the STBeast-1 get a buff too then?



NiemandXL #7 Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:11 PM

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View PostTrewSx, on 09 July 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

Although I do agree with you on those gun stats, there is this little thing why I don't want Leo 1 to be buffed. Almost every tank which has been overbuffed, was later on nerfed to oblivion, do you really want to see that happen to Leo 1 ? 

Leave it as it is and they might not make it even worse then it is now.

 

It's already the worst tier 10 medium together with the french one. It can really only get better for the Paperpard.

Dr_Oolen #8 Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:12 PM

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View PostCannes76, on 09 July 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

Looks to me that those buffs would make it severly OP

 

when did you buy this account?

brumbarr #9 Posted 09 July 2017 - 06:04 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 09 July 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

 

The thing is, even if leopard got buffs as huge as maus got, unlike maus it would still be at best average tank. Also i dont think buffing dpm and gun handling should be the be-all-end-all way to buff tanks as has become the norm on wgs side. Buffing those simply leads to runaway powercreep and leads to even more imbalance down the road as the more dpm/effective dpm there is the faster a game will snowball and become a landslide (well, ht/mt imbalance and skill contribute more to it, but this is a part of it). 

 

I wouldnt personally be too afraid of other sorts of buffs that would keep some character of the vehicle. As buffing gun handling+dpm whenever a tank gets buffed basically means every tank in the game ends up being exactly the same as every other. Also, its quite obvious that accuracy and "sniping capabilities" of tanks are grossly overrated by wg and such tanks are overnerfed in everything else. They could easily exaggerate these "sniping" characteristics to actually make a difference in real games. Currently accuracy means literally nothing and 0.3 guns could just as well be 0.36 and it wouldnt make practical difference, given the lolwut shell distribution and considering all the rng and weakspots, guns become barely accurate (as in, the accuracy being worth having and giving some advantage in practice) at maybe something like 0.23-0.24. And theres what, 2 tanks with such accuracy in the whole game?

 

Why not buff leopard along these lines:

- acc 0.3 -> 0.2

- aimtime 1.9 -> 1.3

- apcr pen 268 -> 288

- shell velocity 1478 -> 1650

 

Wouldnt make the tank just another copypaste of every other t10 med through the usual dpm and gun handling buffs and would actually give the tank real and noticeable advantage in some areas, as in - ability to basically pen with every shot without having to spam heat 24/7. And with such buffs it wouldnt still be even close to op, merely actually being better than other tanks in some aspects.

0.2 is a bit too much imo, thats better than the strv103b, giving it 0.25 should be fine. The rest off the bufs are good too.



WindSpIitter1 #10 Posted 09 July 2017 - 06:07 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 09 July 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Can the STBeast-1 get a buff too then?

 

Everyone always forgets best tanku. 

brumbarr #11 Posted 09 July 2017 - 06:11 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 09 July 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Can the STBeast-1 get a buff too then?

Sure, a little buff to the turret armor should do.



Cannes76 #12 Posted 09 July 2017 - 06:57 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 09 July 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

 

when did you buy this account?

 

Reported.

DracheimFlug #13 Posted 09 July 2017 - 07:09 PM

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Dear OP;

 

God does not buff guns. People do. They may claim to do so in God's name, but, at least according to scripture, He really isn't into that at all. Unless of course He does not exist, but doing things for the love of a non-existent entity would be even sillier. 



Dr_Oolen #14 Posted 09 July 2017 - 07:27 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 09 July 2017 - 06:04 PM, said:

0.2 is a bit too much imo, thats better than the strv103b, giving it 0.25 should be fine. The rest off the bufs are good too.

 

even 0.25 on strv misses weakspots half the time at 350+ meters..., 0.2 is +- the accuracy one HAS to have to hit lfp of e100 at 400m 80% of the time, which is quite reasonable to ask for, on a tank thats "supposed to be sniperoni"

Edited by Dr_Oolen, 09 July 2017 - 07:27 PM.


brumbarr #15 Posted 09 July 2017 - 07:29 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 09 July 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

 

even 0.25 on strv misses weakspots half the time at 350+ meters..., 0.2 is +- the accuracy one HAS to have to hit lfp of e100 at 400m 80% of the time, which is quite reasonable to ask for, on a tank thats "supposed to be sniperoni"

On test server when strv103b had 0.2 acc you could permetrack a tank at 400m reliably. Bit too much imo, acc like 0.2 should be for TDs, leo 1 is still a med and 0.25 would already be spectacular, Playing the udes 0.25 is pinpoint accuracy.



SABAOTH #16 Posted 09 July 2017 - 07:39 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 09 July 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

On test server when strv103b had 0.2 acc you could permetrack a tank at 400m reliably. Bit too much imo, acc like 0.2 should be for TDs, leo 1 is still a med and 0.25 would already be spectacular, Playing the udes 0.25 is pinpoint accuracy.

 

BUt the stv103b has other advantages: Autoricochet most guns and great concealment.

 

Leopard will still be paper, but to actually be the best gun in game it would earn some respect. For sure I would love a 0.25 too, actually any buffs to that tank are welcome. :girl:



Dr_Oolen #17 Posted 09 July 2017 - 07:43 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 09 July 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

On test server when strv103b had 0.2 acc you could permetrack a tank at 400m reliably. Bit too much imo, acc like 0.2 should be for TDs, leo 1 is still a med and 0.25 would already be spectacular, Playing the udes 0.25 is pinpoint accuracy.

 

Not really, 0.25 really just scratches the threshold of a gun that feels accurate in wot, ive grinded to strv 103b twice (because im a retard, once on reroll to get t92e5 and once on NA) and believe me when i say that 0.25 is still "bad" enough to troll the [edited]out of you more than youd like considering its the most accurate gun in the game. And mind you im not playing the tank like redline [edited], basically whenever i see plenty of meds on enemy team on a map where those can be expected to be at some spot, i always go "brawl" vs those meds. But of course on some maps redlining at 400+ meters is inevitable and at that range the gun still trolls a lot, im really talking maybe 50% hitrate vs average size weakspots (lfps).

 

My opinion simply is that the accuracies on t10 non derps shouldnt go from 0.3 to 0.4, but from 0.2 to 0.44, then the accuracy stat would actually be meaningful. 0.2 being obviously maybe 1-2 tanks per tier, then a couple at 0.23-0.26 and then basically just 0.3 and above... not half the tanks having sub 0.3.



Private_Pearts #18 Posted 09 July 2017 - 08:01 PM

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I am not sure it needs buffing but I do think that all tanks from all nations should have the same soft stats as the Russian vehicles. So it's never going to happen.

brumbarr #19 Posted 09 July 2017 - 08:02 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 09 July 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

 

Not really, 0.25 really just scratches the threshold of a gun that feels accurate in wot, ive grinded to strv 103b twice (because im a retard, once on reroll to get t92e5 and once on NA) and believe me when i say that 0.25 is still "bad" enough to troll the [edited]out of you more than youd like considering its the most accurate gun in the game. And mind you im not playing the tank like redline [edited], basically whenever i see plenty of meds on enemy team on a map where those can be expected to be at some spot, i always go "brawl" vs those meds. But of course on some maps redlining at 400+ meters is inevitable and at that range the gun still trolls a lot, im really talking maybe 50% hitrate vs average size weakspots (lfps).

 

My opinion simply is that the accuracies on t10 non derps shouldnt go from 0.3 to 0.4, but from 0.2 to 0.44, then the accuracy stat would actually be meaningful. 0.2 being obviously maybe 1-2 tanks per tier, then a couple at 0.23-0.26 and then basically just 0.3 and above... not half the tanks having sub 0.3.

I agree acc should be from 0.2 to 0.4 but i dont think the leopard should have 0.2.

I 3 markes the udes ( same acc as strv103b) and 0.25 is alreadt plenty, certainly for a med tank.



Nishi_Kinuyo #20 Posted 10 July 2017 - 05:42 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 09 July 2017 - 05:11 PM, said:

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 09 July 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Can the STBeast-1 get a buff too then?

Sure, a little buff to the turret armor should do.

Afaik, it could use a gun handling buff more.






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