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Premium ammunition is becoming a problem .....


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axelking227 #1 Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:09 PM

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So guys I've been playing for a little while now and as with most I *edited* hate arty but not as much as every single game the first shell to hit me is premium....They don't even try to hit a weak spot ...just load gold no problems right ? ....iv just got the FV215b as a slightly underwhelming heavy it relies on dpm and sidescraping....but when ever tank is just shooting gold from the word go ....armor its so useless now all it does is slow you vehicle down ....So my proposal is limited premium ammo per game ? Makes you actively check the team's and make sure you have some for tanks you'll need it for like newly over buffed tanks such as Maus and Type 5 ...When Strv's are throwing gold you now know that it's a problem ....let me know what you think 

Edited by Nohe21, 11 July 2017 - 08:16 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


ZlatanArKung #2 Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:12 PM

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For reasons written in hundreds of threads before, I say no.

Prem ammo should be removed and tanks given frontal weakspots that can be penned by at least 1 tiered lower tanks.

axelking227 #3 Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:17 PM

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Well they are never going to remove premium ammo because there just farming the players for money and the reason they can.get away with it is cus world of tanks had no real direct competition ...I mean warthunder is tanks aswell but completly different ...armoured warfare ? DEAD so really there just gonna farm the playerbase until some competition comes out so instead limit amount of ammo your allowed per game say 10 or go by calibre 90mm Is allowed 10...100mm-8 105/122- 5 ....do you understand what I mean ? 

Enforcer1975 #4 Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:30 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 09 July 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

For reasons written in hundreds of threads before, I say no.

Prem ammo should be removed and tanks given frontal weakspots that can be penned by at least 1 tiered lower tanks.

 

They just need to nerf premium rounds on some tanks and buff normal ap on those who need it to increase incentive to attack from another side rather than going lazy mode and autopen from the front. I know people are going to say "you can't flank in corridors". You can, just read the effing minimap and use wasd and you will find openings most of the time. If you can exploit it is up to you.

Not that i am against any frontal weakspot because there are structural weakspots on most tank designs, but weakspots should never be 100% pen even with standard rounds to not render the tank as a whole obsolete like f.e. the KV-5 where every player and his dog shoots the R2D2 because it's a known weakspot [ in case of the types i wonder how the driver can actually manipulated his hatch cover when it's 250+mm thick....i'm pretty sure it could have never been that thick in the first place ] but having to spam Types frontally with heat in f.e. my T-54 is kind of stupid since you never have the chance even if the hatches had lower armor like they are in the current test.


Edited by Enforcer1975, 09 July 2017 - 05:31 PM.


ZlatanArKung #5 Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:39 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 09 July 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

 

They just need to nerf premium rounds on some tanks and buff normal ap on those who need it to increase incentive to attack from another side rather than going lazy mode and autopen from the front. I know people are going to say "you can't flank in corridors". You can, just read the effing minimap and use wasd and you will find openings most of the time. If you can exploit it is up to you.

Not that i am against any frontal weakspot because there are structural weakspots on most tank designs, but weakspots should never be 100% pen even with standard rounds to not render the tank as a whole obsolete like f.e. the KV-5 where every player and his dog shoots the R2D2 because it's a known weakspot [ in case of the types i wonder how the driver can actually manipulated his hatch cover when it's 250+mm thick....i'm pretty sure it could have never been that thick in the first place ] but having to spam Types frontally with heat in f.e. my T-54 is kind of stupid since you never have the chance even if the hatches had lower armor.

 

There are different kind designs of weakspots.

R2D2 is big, yet KV-5 bounce much dmg/game.

 

But you can have lfp weakspot.

Cupola weakspot

Matching gun port weakspot

Etc. 

 

They don't have to be big, they can be hideable. But as long as they exist, they are good, since it will force the heavy tank to use some skill if they want to bounce.

Then other parts of armour can be prem ammo proof aswell.

 

I think whole current concept of a more expensive round that is just better is stupid and should be removed from any game that wants to be taken serious as a competitive game.

 

Just normalise price.

Give these rounds pen of 1 tiered higher tanks but with lower dmg (as a main change in characteristics).



WindSpIitter1 #6 Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:42 PM

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215b is [edited]terribly armored against standard ammo as well. Chances are they're penning the exact same spots they would otherwise. 

 

Premium ammo isn't becoming a problem because your 215b gets penned. It's becoming a problem because some tanks just can't get penned without it.



Sixxkiller_ #7 Posted 09 July 2017 - 08:15 PM

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They should remove the prem ammo from the game but keep the pen on the standard ammo like they are now and lower the RNG to like 20-15% and re-introduce the weak spots, yes just re- introduce not make them *edited* big like on the Amx 30 B only make them pennable. It should still be hard to hit. I don't know how many times I've just laughed by my self and telling the screen "*edited* you wg I'm not pressing the 2 key i rather sitt here and die now i'm done this round", just for the misses and no penn thanks to the RNG. 

 

This should do so the gold spammers can't go hull down in their T62 on lets say a "less competent" E100 player and just spam the *edited* out that front turret, the poor *edited* is just "playing for fun". (And yes we have all done that to a red player so don't pretend you haven't). 

 

I don't know but I think that should make the "play for fun"-guy more relevant to the game and not make him just rage and uninstall the game, and the more experienced player will adjust his game and maybe get even better?!

Sure Wg wants to make more money so increase the price for the prem time and gold with 20  or why not lower the price? more people gonna buy it if it's more affordable it's not like you have to forge and craft that *edited* = profit either way

 

Maybe this isn't a prem ammo thing maybe it's a xvm status thing, I don't know I'm just a random dude playing this game, trying to do my best getting better every time.


Edited by Jbnn, 10 July 2017 - 07:17 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


FluffyRedFox #8 Posted 09 July 2017 - 09:11 PM

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All limiting premium ammo would do is give the Maus and Type 5 another buff, and we really don't need that.

Bring back weakspots and I'd be all for this.



IncandescentGerbil #9 Posted 09 July 2017 - 09:12 PM

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It's not a problem for WG. It makes them an obscene amount of money. As long as spoilt little teenagers and WN8 junkies refuse to acknowledge the problem, it will only get worse. Game is still worth playing, just, but it is increasingly a greedy cess pit of p2w and ignorance.  

Homer_J #10 Posted 09 July 2017 - 10:19 PM

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View Postaxelking227, on 09 July 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

.iv just got the FV215b as a slightly underwhelming heavy it relies on dpm and sidescraping ....but when ever tank is just shooting gold from the word go ....armor its so useless 

 

If you are sidescraping it doesn't matter if it's premium or regular ammo (except for HE), you should still be in the autobounce angle or they are overmatching in which case it makes no difference if it's standard AP or premium.



Balc0ra #11 Posted 09 July 2017 - 10:52 PM

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You think limiting it would make then think about their usage? Do you play the same game we do? Half of them play with the map off. Most don't react or respond to anything. And only react to the 3 targets near them. Thus premium will go first if it has "armor". Even if there is a Maus behind you they have to deal with after. So no... it won't help making you less frustrated by getting hit first by it I suspect. 

 

Then again.. if you meet someone with half a brain in your FV, they will just go for the range finder on top vs spamming gold on you. But even when I play HT with armor. It's not like 15 out 15 targets spam gold on you. There is always the 1, but I don't see my hit log full of gold ammo, even in my VK B. There are more HT's spamming HE then gold when I play that. 



1ncompetenc3 #12 Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:02 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 09 July 2017 - 10:19 PM, said:

 

If you are sidescraping it doesn't matter if it's premium or regular ammo (except for HE), you should still be in the autobounce angle or they are overmatching in which case it makes no difference if it's standard AP or premium.

 

FV215b is incapable of sidescraping effectively because of the armour bulge by its turret ring; OP is doing it wrong.

 

*Edited

 


Edited by Nohe21, 11 July 2017 - 08:18 AM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


Warzey #13 Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:13 PM

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Like, for most tanks premium ammo does not really matter. Medium tanks are mostly made of paper. When we talk about fast heavies like 113 and T110E5 you need to hit their weak spots to penetrate, those weak spots can be penetrated by both standard and premium ammo, on the other hand spamming premium shells at their strong parts is useless because armor is thick and well sloped there. 

Tanks that are actually affected by premium ammo spam are super heavy tanks and super heavy TDs or to be more accurate, tanks that are very hard to penetrate due to lack of weak spots. 

 



Tinbawx #14 Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:08 AM

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View PostWarzey, on 09 July 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

Like, for most tanks premium ammo does not really matter. Medium tanks are mostly made of paper. When we talk about fast heavies like 113 and T110E5 you need to hit their weak spots to penetrate, those weak spots can be penetrated by both standard and premium ammo, on the other hand spamming premium shells at their strong parts is useless because armor is thick and well sloped there. 

Tanks that are actually affected by premium ammo spam are super heavy tanks and super heavy TDs or to be more accurate, tanks that are very hard to penetrate due to lack of weak spots. 

 

 

Over the course of the last 3 years, would you say the amount premium ammo you use on average has stayed more or less the same or would you say the amount has increased over time?

I´m asking because I know in my case it was a slow but steady increase in the amount premium ammo fired.



arthurwellsley #15 Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:14 AM

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View Postaxelking227, on 09 July 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

So guys I've been playing for a little while now and as with most I *edited* hate arty but not as much as every single game the first shell to hit me is premium....They don't even try to hit a weak spot ...just load gold no problems right ? ....iv just got the FV215b as a slightly underwhelming heavy it relies on dpm and sidescraping....but when ever tank is just shooting gold from the word go ....armor its so useless now all it does is slow you vehicle down ....So my proposal is limited premium ammo per game ? Makes you actively check the team's and make sure you have some for tanks you'll need it for like newly over buffed tanks such as Maus and Type 5 ...When Strv's are throwing gold you now know that it's a problem ....let me know what you think 

 

Premium ammunition is not a problem.

 

FV215b is a problem. The armour model on that tank is all wrong, and it gets penned by everything and anything far too easily, all the way down to tier VIIIs. It seriously needs an armour buff, or at the least greater module health, but of course that will not happen because it is in the British tree.



Spurtung #16 Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:23 AM

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Even a rant about premium ammo has to mention arty for no reason. Geez...

imendars #17 Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:51 AM

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View Postaxelking227, on 09 July 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

So guys I've been playing for a little while now and as with most I *edited* hate arty but not as much as every single game the first shell to hit me is premium....They don't even try to hit a weak spot ...just load gold no problems right ? ....iv just got the FV215b as a slightly underwhelming heavy it relies on dpm and sidescraping....but when ever tank is just shooting gold from the word go ....armor its so useless now all it does is slow you vehicle down ....So my proposal is limited premium ammo per game ? Makes you actively check the team's and make sure you have some for tanks you'll need it for like newly over buffed tanks such as Maus and Type 5 ...When Strv's are throwing gold you now know that it's a problem ....let me know what you think 

 

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Warzey #18 Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:03 AM

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View PostTinbawx, on 10 July 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

 

Over the course of the last 3 years, would you say the amount premium ammo you use on average has stayed more or less the same or would you say the amount has increased over time?

I´m asking because I know in my case it was a slow but steady increase in the amount premium ammo fired.

 

It most certainly has increased, the main reason for that would be the increased number of super heavy tanks rolling around. If I'm driving a heavy with long reload, I just can't afford to randomly bounce off super heavy armor because i had a bad penetration roll especially when I have the means to remove that RNG. That being said, generally speaking you do not need premium ammo to deal with fast heavies, mediums and your average TDs

Cobra6 #19 Posted 10 July 2017 - 12:10 PM

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Premium ammo has always been an issue but so is balancing tanks to have too low standard ammo pen *AND* giving heavies too much armour.

 

Premium ammo needs to be removed, yes no doubt about it.

 

*BUT*

Heavy tanks also need to have frontal weakspots viable for standard AP(CR) pen of the same tier medium guns on a low penetration roll (~-20%).

 

So this is something that needs to be done at the same time, remove premium ammo completely *AND* give all heavy tanks viable frontal weakspots.

 

Cobra 6



JocMeister #20 Posted 10 July 2017 - 12:15 PM

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No problems comrade! Only 5% shots fired gold ammo. Girlish man in pony tail said so. Must be true. VTU can kill Defender easily too. No problem comrade balance gut da!

 

Blyat vodka vodka.


Edited by JocMeister, 10 July 2017 - 12:15 PM.





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