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What is the logic behind some tanks ...


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qpranger #1 Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:45 PM

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... not having premium shells?

 

1) I don't mean arty. 

 

2) I understand that it means that they already have excellent standard shell penetration.

But why were they designed like this by WG in the first place?



RamRaid90 #2 Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:49 PM

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Can't think of a single tank that doesnt have premium shells that needs premium shells.

qpranger #3 Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:53 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 10 July 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

Can't think of a single tank that doesnt have premium shells that needs premium shells.

 

Yes but why do such tanks exist at all?

RamRaid90 #4 Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:56 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 10 July 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

 

Yes but why do such tanks exist at all?

 

Why not?

 

You're asking for a counter argument to an argument that has not existed.

 

Give an example of a tank in the game which does not get a premium shell, and state why it needs one.


Edited by RamRaid90, 10 July 2017 - 10:56 PM.


qpranger #5 Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:00 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 10 July 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

 

Why not?

 

Why yes?

You are still missing my point No. 2.

ZeFeKa #6 Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:01 PM

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Maybe a test if ppl can play without it ? :°



Homer_J #7 Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:09 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 10 July 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

Can't think of a single tank that doesnt have premium shells that needs premium shells.

Some of the low tier gift tanks have trouble penetrating their own RRR and no premium shell.

 

View Postqpranger, on 10 July 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

... not having premium shells?

 

 

Historical accuracy.  i.e. if the gun had no suitable historical alternative ammo.



qpranger #8 Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:11 PM

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View PostZeFeKa, on 11 July 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

Maybe a test if ppl can play without it ? :°

 

Of course people can play without premium shells.

People can do anything when they are offered an opportunity :) 

Such a banality is hardly worth testing. 

 

Take St. Emil for example. Why was it not designed, say with 190 mm standard pen and 240 premium pen?

 

View PostHomer_J, on 11 July 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

Historical accuracy. 

 

In WOT?

LOL, good one :)


 

Edited by Jahrakajin, 11 July 2017 - 09:29 AM.


GekkoGordon #9 Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:34 PM

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Who knows why. You have to understand that same people who gave St.Emil's 12.8cm only the 230AP shell are also the same people who made Defender, Patriot, Skorpion G....so don't except too much from them in terms of logical thinking...and now they're taking away the BL-10 from ISU-152.....and giving it some potato thrower, because let's nerf balanced TDs instead of nerfing OP ones

Edited by GekkoGordon, 10 July 2017 - 11:37 PM.


RamRaid90 #10 Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:44 PM

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View PostGekkoGordon, on 10 July 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

Who knows why. You have to understand that same people who gave St.Emil's 12.8cm only the 230AP shell are also the same people who made Defender, Patriot, Skorpion G....so don't except too much from them in terms of logical thinking...and now they're taking away the BL-10 from ISU-152.....and giving it some potato thrower, because let's nerf balanced TDs instead of nerfing OP ones

 

Yes because a loss of 18 penetration on a tier VIII tank that can penetrate everything in the game frontally is such a huge loss. It also gains a faster reload time and retains it's 750 average damage....yes...much cry about nothing.

 

Oh and the balance team has change a lot since german tanks were introduced.

 

But oviously the tier VII tank that cannot meet anything which it cannot penetrate reliably from the front needs more than 230 penetration.


Edited by RamRaid90, 10 July 2017 - 11:45 PM.


GekkoGordon #11 Posted 11 July 2017 - 12:02 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 11 July 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

 

Yes because a loss of 18 penetration on a tier VIII tank that can penetrate everything in the game frontally is such a huge loss. It also gains a faster reload time and retains it's 750 average damage....yes...much cry about nothing.

 

Oh and the balance team has change a lot since german tanks were introduced.

 

But oviously the tier VII tank that cannot meet anything which it cannot penetrate reliably from the front needs more than 230 penetration.

 

26 pen, not 18...and it makes a difference against Tier 9 & 10 tanks ISU-152 can see. 260 pen is not enough to pen a Type 4 reliably at all, from a sniping distance, you now have to load APCR which is 292 to pen it....ISU-152 did not deserve this, as the gun is the only thing the tank has going for itself. Borsig has 330 HEAT pen on the 750 alpha gun but it also has a turret, good camo and a small profile. UDES has 288 standard pen and good camo. 

 

St Emil can see tier 9 tanks. Good luck sniping them on Fiery Salient with 230 AP pen.....taking penetration loss over distance into account. And no, "it shouldn't be able to pen tanks 2 tiers higher" is not a valid argument.....the Toaster has 204 pen at tier 5 and no ones bitching about it penetrating tier 7 tanks.....if that is acceptable than why wouldn't Emil be able to pen tanks 2 tiers higher as well? 


Edited by GekkoGordon, 11 July 2017 - 12:04 AM.


HeidenSieker #12 Posted 11 July 2017 - 12:04 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 10 July 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

Why not? You're asking for a counter argument to an argument that has not existed.

 

Give an example of a tank in the game which does not get a premium shell, and state why it needs one.

 

It would be nice if people answered questions instead of getting all shirty about it.

Neyaru #13 Posted 11 July 2017 - 01:05 AM

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The only I can think of and is going to receive premium ammo is O-Ho.

ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 11 July 2017 - 01:06 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 10 July 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

 

Why not?

 

You're asking for a counter argument to an argument that has not existed.

 

Give an example of a tank in the game which does not get a premium shell, and state why it needs one.

 

O-Ho 10cm gun.

To low pen for a T8 tank to be competitive.



Joggaman #15 Posted 11 July 2017 - 04:39 AM

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View Postqpranger, on 10 July 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

... not having premium shells?

 

1) I don't mean arty. 

 

2) I understand that it means that they already have excellent standard shell penetration.

But why were they designed like this by WG in the first place?

 

2)

I don't know why, but it is a loss for WG, as I refuse to play anything in which I can't load gold. 



RamRaid90 #16 Posted 11 July 2017 - 08:49 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 11 July 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

 

O-Ho 10cm gun.

To low pen for a T8 tank to be competitive.

 

O ho is already being reworked with premium ammo.
 

View PostGekkoGordon, on 10 July 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

 

26 pen, not 18...and it makes a difference against Tier 9 & 10 tanks ISU-152 can see. 260 pen is not enough to pen a Type 4 reliably at all, from a sniping distance, you now have to load APCR which is 292 to pen it....ISU-152 did not deserve this, as the gun is the only thing the tank has going for itself. Borsig has 330 HEAT pen on the 750 alpha gun but it also has a turret, good camo and a small profile. UDES has 288 standard pen and good camo. 

 

St Emil can see tier 9 tanks. Good luck sniping them on Fiery Salient with 230 AP pen.....taking penetration loss over distance into account. And no, "it shouldn't be able to pen tanks 2 tiers higher" is not a valid argument.....the Toaster has 204 pen at tier 5 and no ones bitching about it penetrating tier 7 tanks.....if that is acceptable than why wouldn't Emil be able to pen tanks 2 tiers higher as well? 

 

The St Emil can penetrate any tier IX tank. 230 pen is more than every tier VIII standard tank, it's more than most tier IX tanks (before they upgrade fully practically becoming tier X tanks)
 

View PostJoggaman, on 11 July 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

 

2)

I don't know why, but it is a loss for WG, as I refuse to play anything in which I can't load gold. 

 

Playing with/without premium ammo doesn't affect Wargamings income in the slightest. You already own premium tanks, so they've made their money.
 

Edited by Jahrakajin, 11 July 2017 - 09:31 AM.


ZlatanArKung #17 Posted 11 July 2017 - 08:56 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 11 July 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

 

The St Emil can penetrate any tier IX tank. 230 pen is more than every tier VIII standard tank, it's more than most tier IX tanks (before they upgrade fully practically becoming tier X tanks)

 

I would love to see you pen a Type 4 with 230 pen.



RamRaid90 #18 Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:00 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 11 July 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

 

I would love to see you pen a Type 4 with 230 pen.

 

Yes because the role of a St Emil is to frontally assault a Superheavy two tiers above.

 

Ridiculous argument. I'd love to see you penetrate a Type 4 with any Tier VIII medium/heavy tank.

 

But if you really must argue about it..Wait until it tries to angle and shoot the shoulders. (200mm effective) or as every other tank in the game has to do, wait until he's distracted and attack the sides. If that isn't an option relocate.


Edited by RamRaid90, 11 July 2017 - 09:01 AM.


Piroger #19 Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:07 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 11 July 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

 

I would love to see you pen a Type 4 with 230 pen.

 

You can pen it if you hit its frontal weakspots (the corners, just as on the Ferdinand).

IRSanchez #20 Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:08 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 11 July 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

 

Playing with/without premium ammo doesn't affect Wargamings income in the slightest. You already own premium tanks, so they've made their money.

 

Are you for real?
 

Not everybody has premium tanks that are effective at farming credits. Just think for a second.

Playing with premium ammo means you are in the need of premium account and/or good premium tanks (preferrably both).

 

Since the armor creep premium ammo spam got real (it started with Japan Heavies, followed by recent batch of OP premium tanks, followed by Maus line overbuff and with cherry on top beeing Chrysler K/P2W).


Players are really forced to pay more just because of the incresed premium ammo usage thanks to WG's new and improved "happy player 2.0" policy.



 

 

 


Edited by IRSanchez, 11 July 2017 - 09:09 AM.





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