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XVM (external program) - chicanery for SPG players


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AC130Pilot #1 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:08 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 13 July 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

"Arty targetting good players" - another (justified) XVM complaint.

 

Seems like an external program (modifier) is causing problems to the core game. If many arguments against SPGs involve an external program (XVM), shouldn't that program be forbidden/blocked? I mean, why waste millions of dollars trying to fix problems which are caused by non-core programs when you can forbid/block the cause of problems (XVM) for, relatively speaking, free?

 

If the now forbidden Tundra helped aiming through foliage, then XVM helps SPGs prioritizing (focusing) targets. Seems like chicanery to me...

 

Here's an example where player is supposedly being focus-fired at because of previously mentioned external program (XVM):



Not all functions of XVM are causing problems, but the main function (in-game statistics display) is. Maybe forbid that specific function by contacting the developer of XVM mod. The rest of the functions may stay.


Also, I have never used, nor am using, nor will I ever use the XVM external modifier.


Edited by AC130Pilot, 13 July 2017 - 02:50 PM.


Nickthedevil #2 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:19 PM

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You been in a coma the last 4 years?

Kozzy #3 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:20 PM

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Something that has been suggested in the past and I would very much like to be introduced myself is 'fog of war'.  Don't let people see who is on the enemy team or even what the enemy tanks are.  This will make gaining knowledge of the opponent (i.e. scouting) a little more important.  It will help, in my opinion, limit the amount of "oh man, the enemy team has been rigged to be better than ours we will lose, let's YOLO/not try/suicide instead" moronic behaviour too.  Maybe also not even display player names until the end of the battle?  Since cross team chat is disabled why do we even need to know who is on the opposing team?

 

I cannot see any negatives to this plan, are there any?


Edited by Kozzy, 13 July 2017 - 03:41 PM.


Nazgarth #4 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:22 PM

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What's this "Expert: -tank name-" and "Expert: OFF" that keeps appearing on the right of the video above the map?

Also regarding the video isn't it a bit hypocritical of the person to complain about XVM focus whilst using XVM themselves...


 



AC130Pilot #5 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:28 PM

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Kozzy,

 

Indeed a very good proposal.

 

Nazgarth,

 

I'm not sure about that "Expert" thingy... Anyway, I think there's a direct correlation between those who complain about XVM focus and those who use it (same people basically).



rado84 #6 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:31 PM

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You don't really make any sense to me, so if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then I can tell you XVM has nothing do with the arty focus and priorities because a) I'm an arty player and b) I don't use XVM. If you have been targeted by an arty for any reason and they keep firing upon you, no mod has anything to do with it. I always target the hardest and the toughest heavy tanks first - those tanks that I know my allies may have a hard time penetrating them. So if you're in a Maus, VK100, Mauschen or any other heavily armored heavy tank, you can expect to take more shots from arty players, whether they use XVM or not.

Nazgarth #7 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:40 PM

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View PostAC130Pilot, on 13 July 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Kozzy,

 

Indeed a very good proposal.

 

Nazgarth,

 

I'm not sure about that "Expert" thingy... Anyway, I think there's a direct correlation between those who complain about XVM focus and those who use it (same people basically).

 

Well my take on it is that XVM focus does happen (in reply to rado84) , seen it happen to myself a few times; but never had a mod installed, never mind XVM. Quite often it impacts the arty player and his team more negatively than positively.

 

So overall its bad for the game, if you want to see my or other peoples stats after the game fine, but during no.

 

Again talking about the "Expert" thing in the video, I think its some sort of aim assist, as it only pops up when he aims at someone. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but again ironic in context of the video title.



AC130Pilot #8 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:41 PM

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View Postrado84, on 13 July 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

You don't really make any sense to me, so if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then I can tell you XVM has nothing do with the arty focus and priorities because a) I'm an arty player and b) I don't use XVM. If you have been targeted by an arty for any reason and they keep firing upon you, no mod has anything to do with it. I always target the hardest and the toughest heavy tanks first - those tanks that I know my allies may have a hard time penetrating them. So if you're in a Maus, VK100, Mauschen or any other heavily armored heavy tank, you can expect to take more shots from arty players, whether they use XVM or not.

 

I understand you perfectly (please notice the last sentence of post #1 below the video). I play by similar principles. But try explaining that to, for example, anti-SPG activists in this topic: What is Arty supposed to add to the game? Quite a few arguments there are related to XVM (directly/non-directly).

Edited by AC130Pilot, 13 July 2017 - 02:45 PM.


gpalsson #9 Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:48 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 13 July 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

Something that has been suggested in the past and I would very much like to be introduced myself is 'fog of war'.  Don't let people see who is on the enemy team or even what the enemy tanks.  This will make gaining knowledge of the opponent (i.e. scouting) a little more important.  It will help, in my opinion, limit the amount of "oh man, the enemy team has been rigged to be better than ours we will lose, let's YOLO/not try/suicide instead" moronic behaviour too.  Maybe also not even display player names until the end of the battle?  Since cross team chat is disabled why do we even need to know who is on the opposing team?

 

I cannot see any negatives to this plan, are there any?

 

Some people say that they would feel they are fighting bots then. I completely don't get that argument, but some people feel it is very important to be able to see enemy names. That, or it's just a lame excuse because they love XVM stats part.

signal11th #10 Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:26 PM

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View Postgpalsson, on 13 July 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

 

Some people say that they would feel they are fighting bots then. I completely don't get that argument, but some people feel it is very important to be able to see enemy names. That, or it's just a lame excuse because they love XVM stats part.

 

They can see then names just after they spot them or they get spotted so I'd go with lame excuse.

_EXODUZ_ #11 Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:33 PM

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AC130Pilot

 



Chicanery - nice word, you've probably read a lot of books.



More Formating
Cause Reasons


I hope you appreciate.



 


Edited by _EXODUZ_, 13 July 2017 - 03:34 PM.


Eaglax #12 Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:37 PM

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when you have XVM installed you can see who else in the battle is using it too, and most of the times there are not more than 3-5 people on the enemy team using it....and arty players are not really using it more than "normal" players.....you are kinda exaggerating

 

btw the video is half a year old, and the best part: he is using XVM himself, lol



signal11th #13 Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:39 PM

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View PostEaglax, on 13 July 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

when you have XVM installed you can see who else in the battle is using it too, and most of the times there are not more than 3-5 people on the enemy team using it....and arty players are not really using it more than "normal" players.....you are kinda exaggerating

 

btw the video is half a year old, and the best part: he is using XVM himself, lol

 

My experience I would go with 50/50 using it not using it. 3-5 people only using it I would say is very rare from when I play. Then again probably 50% of the playerbase are bookends and they have trouble using a mouse and a keyboard at the same time so looking at XVM or even installing it well yes a bridge too far. (quality film as well)

Edited by signal11th, 13 July 2017 - 03:41 PM.


WindSpIitter1 #14 Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:44 PM

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XVM makes some problems in the game worse, but removing it wouldn't solve the root cause of the problem. Your useless top tier might drown a bit later when the game is being lost, arty is still a bad mechanic, toxicity would com after the game instead. It's a step forward in a way to block XVM's stats, but it's not the perfect solution that fixes everything.

rado84 #15 Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:08 PM

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View PostAC130Pilot, on 13 July 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

I understand you perfectly (please notice the last sentence of post #1 below the video). I play by similar principles. But try explaining that to, for example, anti-SPG activists in this topic: What is Arty supposed to add to the game? Quite a few arguments there are related to XVM (directly/non-directly).

 

Ignore them. They don't know what they're talking about. Apparently they have never used XVM. There's nothing in XVM to help you determine on which player to focus your fire, that's entirely a personal call.

AC130Pilot #16 Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:09 PM

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_EXODUZ_,

 

I had to find a replacement for this word, that is all. I meant chicanery as tricking/going around the system. I usually read something like this.



HeidenSieker #17 Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:21 PM

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View Postrado84, on 13 July 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then I can tell you XVM has nothing do with the arty focus and priorities because a) I'm an arty player and b) I don't use XVM. If you have been targeted by an arty for any reason and they keep firing upon you, no mod has anything to do with it.

 

Yet various people in these forums have said that they do use XVM for the purpose of "focussing good players". So if you don't use XVM (neither do I), obviously you don't do this - but many do.

 

As an SPG player (with this account), the reasons I am likely to continue to target a selected vehicle are: 1) I can still see it, b) There is no bigger threat, c) There's no-one else it would be more useful to shell.



Eric11082000 #18 Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:20 PM

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View Postrado84, on 13 July 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

You don't really make any sense to me, so if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then I can tell you XVM has nothing do with the arty focus and priorities because a) I'm an arty player and b) I don't use XVM. If you have been targeted by an arty for any reason and they keep firing upon you, no mod has anything to do with it. I always target the hardest and the toughest heavy tanks first - those tanks that I know my allies may have a hard time penetrating them. So if you're in a Maus, VK100, Mauschen or any other heavily armored heavy tank, you can expect to take more shots from arty players, whether they use XVM or not.

This is clearly bs. Have you actually played a game of wot since patch 9.0? I can play my e5 and sit in the open with 3 arty on the enemy team and take 0 dmg whilst the leopard 1 takes 3 arty hits simultaneously. What actual tank the enemy is playing is irrelevant. Spg players just want dmg, why shoot the maus and do 0 dmg (gj wg balance department...) when u can shoot a leopard or bc for 1k dmg (because arty is balanced). Naturally, better players usually play lesser armoured more mobile tanks because they can switch flanks, flank faster etc, so an arty hit always going to do more dmg. Once the shell leaves the barrel it is ENTIRELY rng based, so hitting a maus is no more difficult (not the correct word but u know what i mean) than hitting a bc 25t. For example, played a game in my wz 131 today in a tier 9 battle and their fv3805 spent the entire bloody game shooting at me (and ofc scores a direct hit whilst im zigzagging around for 750hp) whilst our emil 2 just sits in the open freaking 50m from me. You might abide by this rule of thumb, but trust me, no other arty player does. 

 

P.S. the whole concept of arty is dumb. An entirely rng dependant class able to sit in your base and just click every 20s for 10s stun and 300 dmg for a splash is just retarded. Dont get me wrong, the arty change was necessary but they didnt go far enough. Wg grow some balls and delete this cancer. Couple this with xvm stats and any game with 2+ arty is a good player's nightmare.



Phobos4321 #19 Posted 14 July 2017 - 10:35 PM

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and a unicum would given both targets are shottable shoot at:

 

a) the other unicum that know how to fight them

b) the noob with the 1 digit wn8 ?

 

platoons, autoloaders everything is fine if they do xvm focus to some degree they even call it skill- evaluating the danger and prioritizing the targets accordingly

 

if the player now does everything like he did while driving any other class in the game and would be deemed skilled for that behavior, driving the arty  that  "skill" turns into something bad ? 

 

pretty much the same as drowning for the last tank of the team if it was a spg you get 3 threads per drowned arty here  strangly the last days all i saw doing it were meds, heavies and tds ...

 

arent it hypocrites to deploy different scales to judge  players ?



Nazgarth #20 Posted 14 July 2017 - 11:19 PM

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View PostPhobos4321, on 14 July 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

and a unicum would given both targets are shottable shoot at:

 

a) the other unicum that know how to fight them

b) the noob with the 1 digit wn8 ?

 

platoons, autoloaders everything is fine if they do xvm focus to some degree they even call it skill- evaluating the danger and prioritizing the targets accordingly

 

if the player now does everything like he did while driving any other class in the game and would be deemed skilled for that behavior, driving the arty  that  "skill" turns into something bad ?

 

pretty much the same as drowning for the last tank of the team if it was a spg you get 3 threads per drowned arty here  strangly the last days all i saw doing it were meds, heavies and tds ...

 

arent it hypocrites to deploy different scales to judge  players ?

 

Who said focusing in a "normal" tank was any different than arty? Its just far easier with arty because you can bring your gun to bare on one side of the map to the other, in an instant.




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