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The IS-4 is inferior to ST-I and its a tier above (strange)


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KillingJoker #1 Posted 14 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

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Yesterday i got the IS-4, i allready had it researched for a while and i have been disapointed with it, and i even think the ST-I is a more stronger tank to play vs tier X's...

 

I have more than 1000 games in the ST-I and i have 2 marks in it, so i kind of know what are the strengs of the ST-I

 

its slower than the IS-4, but its armor works better than the IS-4, the IS-4 armor is tricky... you have to angle it a certain angle and make sure your not under the level of the enemy to prevent the armor loses efectiveness, if you are under the enemy your armor even when angled goes to around 210 wich is poor at tier X level...

 

The ST-I in other hand is not a low ground kind of tank, unlike lower profile russian heavies, like the IS-4, IS-7, the ST-I have gun depression and a very strong turret that even its weakspot is very hard to hit with with premium rounds... becuase of the ST-I turret being so strong and because of the gun depression, more often you will be in higher ground than lower, and your armor efectiveness will increase with it..

 

The IS-4 turret top despite smaller can be overmatched like an IS-3 if a player who is above it... while in the ST-I that wont never happen

the IS-4 is allways vulnerable premium rounds at tier X level, (and by experience people shot much more often gold than AP at tier X) while the ST-I in certain positions its invencible even vs gold ammunition, since RNG must help them to even penetrate the top of the turret..

 

You gave the IS-4 better mobility, nice 2500 hit points, and better gun handling, but that doesnt work in practice, because as anyone is spamming gold at you, you will die quicker, while in the ST-I i allways have the chance of tanking a low ground zone and hold even vs bigger guns... the DPM becomes somehow irrelevant... 

 

I can even say i would accept to play the ST-I as tier X if you just gave it the 2500 hitpoints of the IS-4, and its gun handling

it would be instantly superior to the IS-4 in every aspect...



brumbarr #2 Posted 14 July 2017 - 10:50 AM

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Thats why WG is going to rework the line and switch the 2 tanks.

cro001 #3 Posted 14 July 2017 - 10:57 AM

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They will likely to swap IS-4 and ST-1. There are rumors about such thing. EDIT: ST-1 is based on IS-4 anyway, so it has much more sense that it's later in tech tree, if that matters anyway.

 

Two things should be fixed if they're not going to swap them: Roof overmatch is a no-go on tier 10. Either give it more gun depression so you can hide it certain situations, or remove it and make commanders hatch a bit more prominent. Also LFP and UFP armor should be rebalanced, buff the UFP so it doesn't get raped by everything about ~280 penetration IIRC and LFP should be nerfed a bit so it doesn't stay as strong(those track links ugh).


Edited by cro001, 14 July 2017 - 10:58 AM.


Spurtung #4 Posted 14 July 2017 - 11:22 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 14 July 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

Thats why WG is going to rework the line and switch the 2 tanks.

 

Weren't they also testing the double guns for a ST-II?

stormermp #5 Posted 14 July 2017 - 11:31 AM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 14 July 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Yesterday i got the IS-4, i allready had it researched for a while and i have been disapointed with it, and i even think the ST-I is a more stronger tank to play vs tier X's...

 

I have more than 1000 games in the ST-I and i have 2 marks in it, so i kind of know what are the strengs of the ST-I

 

its slower than the IS-4, but its armor works better than the IS-4, the IS-4 armor is tricky... you have to angle it a certain angle and make sure your not under the level of the enemy to prevent the armor loses efectiveness, if you are under the enemy your armor even when angled goes to around 210 wich is poor at tier X level...

 

The ST-I in other hand is not a low ground kind of tank, unlike lower profile russian heavies, like the IS-4, IS-7, the ST-I have gun depression and a very strong turret that even its weakspot is very hard to hit with with premium rounds... becuase of the ST-I turret being so strong and because of the gun depression, more often you will be in higher ground than lower, and your armor efectiveness will increase with it..

 

The IS-4 turret top despite smaller can be overmatched like an IS-3 if a player who is above it... while in the ST-I that wont never happen

the IS-4 is allways vulnerable premium rounds at tier X level, (and by experience people shot much more often gold than AP at tier X) while the ST-I in certain positions its invencible even vs gold ammunition, since RNG must help them to even penetrate the top of the turret..

 

You gave the IS-4 better mobility, nice 2500 hit points, and better gun handling, but that doesnt work in practice, because as anyone is spamming gold at you, you will die quicker, while in the ST-I i allways have the chance of tanking a low ground zone and hold even vs bigger guns... the DPM becomes somehow irrelevant... 

 

I can even say i would accept to play the ST-I as tier X if you just gave it the 2500 hitpoints of the IS-4, and its gun handling

it would be instantly superior to the IS-4 in every aspect...

 

Let's buff all Rasha tenks Komrade,is hard play them i heff to bounce evry shots by kapitalist or fascisty tanks but give two rounds for every one of theirs....Komrade?

Infaustus1903 #6 Posted 14 July 2017 - 11:42 AM

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I totally agree with you about ST-I. ST-I is the strongest heav tank of tier 9, its also never considered as weak even against tier x heavies. I’ve researched IS-4 many months ago but not buying it because of the reasons you mentioned. I’m waiting for WG to make that swap or replacement for IS-4. 



sasopocmarany #7 Posted 14 July 2017 - 11:44 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 14 July 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

 

Weren't they also testing the double guns for a ST-II?

 

  i highly doubt that will happen

 



Spurtung #8 Posted 14 July 2017 - 11:48 AM

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View Postsasopocmarany, on 14 July 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

View PostSpurtung, on 14 July 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

 

Weren't they also testing the double guns for a ST-II?

 

  i highly doubt that will happen

 

Do

not

JINX IT!



Rati_Festa #9 Posted 14 July 2017 - 12:34 PM

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I have played both tanks quite a lot ( 300 games in both, 53% wr IS4, 58% wr ST1 ) and I'm fairly decent in both. I'm not sure that the ST1 is that much better than the IS4, more the fact the IS4 tank will meet better opposition. I assume like myself If you have a really good russian heavy crew you put that in your t10 and your secondary crew would go in the T9.  If the majority of players follow that pattern, then you are basically going to meet more T10 in your IS4 and they have better crews. My stats always falter at T10 vs T9 I have always thought this is because of the quality of opponent ( crews/experience ) rather than the frailties of the highest tier tanks. T10 is a considerable step up from T9.

Edited by Rati_Festa, 14 July 2017 - 12:35 PM.


1ncompetenc3 #10 Posted 14 July 2017 - 12:37 PM

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IS-4 is my favourite tier X heavy. :hiding:

imendars #11 Posted 14 July 2017 - 12:42 PM

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If you angle it right, you can bounce td regular ammo. BUT this needs to be further tested. I know i have some td bounces this way).

I know lots of stuff bounces this way but i'm allways scared when td targets at me.

One probly should know the default penetration of enemy td before attempting this...

And i play is-4 rarly so...



brumbarr #12 Posted 14 July 2017 - 12:50 PM

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Tbh, i didnt like the stI, and loved the is4, the extra sidearmor just made it so much more effective. Also the speed made a massive difference. I really liked it.

Rati_Festa #13 Posted 14 July 2017 - 12:56 PM

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Yeah the ST1 is a spoiler tank, you get in one spot and just block it, its a nightmare to dig out. I stopped playing mine even though I could get a decent win rate, I play the game to have fun. It can't really push due to its poor hull armour. The IS4 is lots more fun as its more flexible, angling is the key, love bouncing JG pz e100's and then getting stuck in.

KillingJoker #14 Posted 14 July 2017 - 12:59 PM

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View Post1ncompetenc3, on 14 July 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

IS-4 is my favourite tier X heavy. :hiding:

 

the tank would be pretty good if there was no gold around....

with everyone spamming gold at me it becomes impossible to play, unless you sidescrape 



imendars #15 Posted 14 July 2017 - 01:03 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 14 July 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

Yeah the ST1 is a spoiler tank, you get in one spot and just block it, its a nightmare to dig out. I stopped playing mine even though I could get a decent win rate, I play the game to have fun. It can't really push due to its poor hull armour. The IS4 is lots more fun as its more flexible, angling is the key, love bouncing JG pz e100's and then getting stuck in.

 

So IS-4 if angled in diamond shape, can bounce Jg E100? What if it shoots gold?

KillingJoker #16 Posted 14 July 2017 - 01:09 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 14 July 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

I have played both tanks quite a lot ( 300 games in both, 53% wr IS4, 58% wr ST1 ) and I'm fairly decent in both. I'm not sure that the ST1 is that much better than the IS4, more the fact the IS4 tank will meet better opposition. I assume like myself If you have a really good russian heavy crew you put that in your t10 and your secondary crew would go in the T9.  If the majority of players follow that pattern, then you are basically going to meet more T10 in your IS4 and they have better crews. My stats always falter at T10 vs T9 I have always thought this is because of the quality of opponent ( crews/experience ) rather than the frailties of the highest tier tanks. T10 is a considerable step up from T9.

 

I have several excelent Russian crews, with more than 4 percs... 

 

I am actually playing the Is-4 with the crew that was in the ST-I, my complains its not about the crew, its the fact the frontal uper plate only is efective vs guns who have 250+ pen when angled, and that when people shot gold at you... the armor becomes irrelevant all around... the hull of the IS-4 at its maximum strenght, can only hold around 260/280 rounds,  and most gold ammunition of tier X tanks will have more than 300 penetration... so your armor becomes irrelevant....


If your hull is irrelevant when people spamm gold at you, what you do? you have to try to be hull down right? you cant... because the IS-4 when is under the level of enemy

exposes the top of the roof and any exeprient player will exploit that...

 

This is why i garantee 100% and the ST-I have not only better armor, the armor of the ST-I actually works, where the armor of the IS-4 doesnt work...

it would work if there wasnt gold flying around so often... the IS-4 is an old tank, from the early times of the game, the tank had becomed obsolete.... 

 

With everyone spamming gold it the turret should be at least immune... that tank should had at least something to let yoiu work out thouse situations...

but it doesnt, its a tank that only works vs plaeyrs who are naive and not smart asses spamming gold at your hull at 45 degrees of angling...

 

like i said, i woul rate play the ST-I vs tier heavies spamming gold at me, even with only 1800 hit points, than the IS-4 with 2500 hit points, i would last more time with the ST-I


Edited by KillingJoker, 14 July 2017 - 01:10 PM.


KillingJoker #17 Posted 14 July 2017 - 01:14 PM

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View Postimendars, on 14 July 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

 

So IS-4 if angled in diamond shape, can bounce Jg E100? What if it shoots gold?

 

No... any gun shot with more than 300 penetration will go in 

imendars #18 Posted 14 July 2017 - 01:27 PM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 14 July 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

 

No... any gun shot with more than 300 penetration will go in 

 

tanks.gg tells me the same.. but i remember relayable bouncing from one td. Perhaps the guy was enjoying his bear bit too much or i was super lucky. :mellow:

Edited by imendars, 14 July 2017 - 01:35 PM.


KillingJoker #19 Posted 14 July 2017 - 01:47 PM

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View Postimendars, on 14 July 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

tanks.gg tells me the same.. but i remember relayable bouncing from one td. Perhaps the guy was enjoying his bear bit too much or i was super lucky. :mellow:

 

RNG and distance can make shells fail to penetrate any tank... but at close range any shell with 300+ penetration will wreak a hull of an IS-4, thats garanteed.

 

 



Uebergewicht #20 Posted 14 July 2017 - 02:08 PM

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You´re absolutely right, I´ve seen that a long time ago despite the fact the the IS-4 was my first tier 10. The armor on this tank just doesnt hold up. Yes, in the right angle, the armor can get 270+ all around... though the 270 area is still rather prominent and will get buttered by gold rounds or TDs. If the IS-4 is not angled properly, even the upper frontal plate can get penetrated by enemy heavies with regular AP - something no other heavy this slow has to deal with. And then there is still the overmatchable roof. Mobility is okay at best, and gun handling quite derpy. Neither the alpha nor the dpm are outstanding.

 

While the ST-I technically has these problems as well (minus the roof weakspot) and is slower, has less side armor, a horrible lower plate and worse gun handling... it doesnt matter nearly as much because that tank is so good hulldown. Even the most fearsome guns need luck to pen that turret front, and because you can just stick your head out and aim, the gun handling doesnt really drag you down. Due to depression you can use more positions, which often makes the ST-I more flexible than the IS-4. 

 

Both tanks are poor at assaulting, though. The ST-I is too slow and the IS-4 is quite vulnerable when it is not side scraping or angling for one direction. You cannot really cross ground at 40 degrees angle, even if you´re a bit faster.

 

 

I´m really hoping for some changes to come to these vehicles soon. Hopefully in 9.20, but at least in the patch after that. The ST-I isn´t even in HD yet so WG may have something up its sleeve for it.






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