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Japanese heavies in a nutshell.


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tajj7 #1 Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:27 PM

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45% er, does that in the Japanese heavies, notice the Cent AX, a balanced tier 10 med, he averages 900 damage in it, but in the Type 5 with *Edited armour and an *Edited gun suddenly he's an above average player.

 

Nerf them now, they are the single worst thing in the game right now. 

 

Get rid of the stupid derps and give them ACTUAL weakspots so noobs like this who clearly have no idea how to play tanks get punished for their bad play like they should, so they learn to improve, not get rewarded for being terrible at the game. 

 


Edited by Nohe21, 17 July 2017 - 10:26 AM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


HaZardeur #2 Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:30 PM

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tajj7 , dont you think WG doesnt already know... and care ?

 

edit: InB4 Nishi_Kinuyo tells us Jap. derp heavies need skill...


Edited by HaZardeur, 16 July 2017 - 09:07 PM.


Velvet_Underground #3 Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:32 PM

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I don't see the problem, those tanks just fit his playstyle.

leggasiini #4 Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:39 PM

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Not saying that Type 5 is not overpowered (it definitely is and it needs to be overhauled (and obviously overall nerfed) badly, Type 4 is not even close as good as its brother, but its still very problematic (broken gun with dreadful gun stats on overall bad, but still broken platform)), but Jap heavies are tanks that are so easy to play that they tend to be more overpowered for noobs than they are for good players, compared to their skill level. For example, O-I is completely OP for newbies, average and above average players but is actually sub-par for unicums.

 

Stupidly thick armor + derp gun with excessive alpha wont work together. Its either of them. Type 5 is the worst one because the armor is completely immune to regular non-TD rounds, the derp gun has top 3 highest effective alpha in its tier with non-pens and as icing cake, the derp is completely P2W. What disgusts and pisses me off is that the 14cm is terrible, meaning that you are forced to use derp, and in return, the derp is also mediocre without gold spam, so you are forced to gold spam, but when you do, you basically have arty hidden into fortress. 

 

At least Japanese heavies are perfectly fixable. Arty in return is not fixable as long as you keep its current concept, which involves clicking from base and hitting tanks that has no chance of fighting arty back.

 

As higher tier Jap heavies have completely unhistorical armor (tier 9-10 also has unhistorical shape), there are more than one option for rebalancing the line. One is simply keeping the similar concept to what they have now without derp guns (thick front, poor sides, good gun depression, huge, slow, high alpha). Rework armor (make it more abuseable but weakspots), remove derps, buff regular guns or add new ones. There are however other options, one of them is making them pseudo-TDs that trade mobility, stealthiness and have bit worse guns than regular TDs (but better than heavies) for much more health and full traverseable turrets. Think E4 with bit more constinent front armor, full turret and much more health but being a bigger target, slower, and bit worse pen + alpha.

 


Edited by leggasiini, 16 July 2017 - 08:49 PM.


I_DiD_ #5 Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:42 PM

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All T6+ Tanks which have derp guns should lose those guns and get normal guns.

 

This is crazy how bad the game become in balance. Super HT with depr guns lol :amazed:

 

If TD with derp gun its balanced, but a frontal tank whit decent armor lol



Nishi_Kinuyo #6 Posted 16 July 2017 - 09:15 PM

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tajj7

 image

text

 I also noticed he has 51% WR in that E75 of his and 49% in his Tiger II.

Surely those tanks are equally *Edited then.


Edited by Nohe21, 17 July 2017 - 10:29 AM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


JocMeister #7 Posted 16 July 2017 - 09:39 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 16 July 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

 I also noticed he has 51% WR in that E75 of his and 49% in his Tiger II.

Surely those tanks are equally idiotproof then.

 

Dude. do you really think it sounds balanced when a player of your skill can do 2500 DPG and bounce over 2,5k in your first TX? 

 

Type 4 and 5 are broken. Armor is retarded but the guns are even more stupid. Enemy has armor? So what. 500-700 damage easy. No aim, no skill. Just point and click. When these stupid things were released I saw Circon do over 4k damage in a Type 4. While eating. Tell me any other tank besides arty where you can do 4k+ damage while eating and basically using one hand.

 

Stop kidding yourself man. 

 

EDIT: For the laughs. Prove me wrong by going to the testserver and play 10 games in the IS7, E100 and a TX HT of your choosing. I bet you 1k gold you wont average above 2k damage in any of them. 

 

 


Edited by JocMeister, 16 July 2017 - 09:43 PM.


tajj7 #8 Posted 16 July 2017 - 09:40 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 16 July 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

 I also noticed he has 51% WR in that E75 of his and 49% in his Tiger II.

Surely those tanks are equally idiotproof then.

 

That would be relevant if he didn't do like 1k less damage in his E75 than his Type 4.....

 

Guy can barely manage 1200 damage per game in a JpE100 which does 1050 per shot but suddenly the magical Type 5 allows him to do 2k....

 

But of course you defend this tank.  


Edited by tajj7, 16 July 2017 - 10:15 PM.


Long_Range_Sniper #9 Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:13 PM

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The thing is, whilst they appear *Edited, that doesn't seem to apply in terms of reading the map. How many times do you see one go where it can be no use at all, and then it's too slow even to re-locate. Thus taking its gun and tank out of the game. It may be *Edited to play, but no matter what the tank, you've still got to read the map and the enemy composition and make a decision right at the start. Get that decision wrong in one of these things and you drop your team damage dealing capability right away. Never mind when one pushes you or blocks you trying to sidescrape etc etc. At least if your own artillery can't hit any of the enemy, as long as it doesn't hit you it doesn't get in the way.

 

It's a tank line that's never, ever appealed to me in any way, along with British/Russian TD's and French/Russian arty. Still at tier 1 in my tech trees since 2011.

 

Edit: To be fair, I've just checked the wincurves and they pretty much track WR point for point. The Type 5 gives a bit of a boost at the top end.


Edited by Nohe21, 17 July 2017 - 10:32 AM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


Gnomus #10 Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:14 PM

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So 45% player got 49% and 51% WR with those OP tanks?

 

So should we nerf tanks like T50, T50/51, T-55A, E100, IS-7, Emil II, Maus, Rheinmetal Borsig because certain individual who has 57% WR has respectively winrates of: 66%, 62%, 64%, 61%, 62%, 61%, 63%, 67% with those tanks.

 

Clearly all those allows him to play far beyond his normal skill range. WG do something!!!!!!!

 

 

There are different tanks, they are not clones of each others. Some have high potential but steep skill coefficiency. Some allow worse players to perform, but do not reward high skill so well. Some are just OP and some are just UP.

 

OP and UP are balance question, and can be fixed to some level. Tanks that work differently on different skill levels or with different play styles are technically must (unless all tanks are just clones). The moment you nerf/remove tanks that allow some player do better than he do in average, his average will drop and you have another tank "working too well". You can't get rid of them.

 

You can complain if/when Type 4/5 is OP, but asking them to be nerfed because someone does better than his own average on them is as stupid as asking high performance tanks be nerfed because unicums are doing wonders with them while baddies can't handle them. You can't have one without the other.



ZlatanArKung #11 Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:19 PM

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View PostGnomus, on 16 July 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

So 45% player got 49% and 51% WR with those OP tanks?

 

So should we nerf tanks like T50, T50/51, T-55A, E100, IS-7, Emil II, Maus, Rheinmetal Borsig because certain individual who has 57% WR has respectively winrates of: 66%, 62%, 64%, 61%, 62%, 61%, 63%, 67% with those tanks.

 

Clearly all those allows him to play far beyond his normal skill range. WG do something!!!!!!!

 

 

There are different tanks, they are not clones of each others. Some have high potential but steep skill coefficiency. Some allow worse players to perform, but do not reward high skill so well. Some are just OP and some are just UP.

 

OP and UP are balance question, and can be fixed to some level. Tanks that work differently on different skill levels or with different play styles are technically must (unless all tanks are just clones). The moment you nerf/remove tanks that allow some player do better than he do in average, his average will drop and you have another tank "working too well". You can't get rid of them.

 

You can complain if/when Type 4/5 is OP, but asking them to be nerfed because someone does better than his own average on them is as stupid as asking high performance tanks be nerfed because unicums are doing wonders with them while baddies can't handle them. You can't have one without the other.

 

No. They should be nerfed because they are broken AND OP.



WindSplitter1 #12 Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:49 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 16 July 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

 I also noticed he has 51% WR in that E75 of his and 49% in his Tiger II.

Surely those tanks are equally idiotproof then.

 

Exactly my thought.

japtank #13 Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:54 PM

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Without the derp gun, this tank has 2550 DPM with a 0.4 dispersion/249 pen gun to top it all.

It's sluggish, can never hit a low profile tank hugging it, and suffers from the premium ammo madness more than any other tank because of it's flat armor.

 

You're not fighting the right fight, only showing your bad faith.

Ask for the tank to be reworked, because it's impossible to play without the derp (and very expensive premium ammo), and you are more likely to be taken seriously.

But a nerf?

 

LOL, gtfo :)



250swb #14 Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:35 AM

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He's found he's good with heavy tanks, everybody is a specialist at something, leave his tank alone.

 

 



HassenderZerhacker #15 Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:48 AM

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View Postjaptank, on 16 July 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

Without the derp gun, this tank has 2550 DPM with a 0.4 dispersion/249 pen gun to top it all.

It's sluggish, can never hit a low profile tank hugging it, and suffers from the premium ammo madness more than any other tank because of it's flat armor.

 

You're not fighting the right fight, only showing your bad faith.

Ask for the tank to be reworked, because it's impossible to play without the derp (and very expensive premium ammo), and you are more likely to be taken seriously.

But a nerf?

 

LOL, gtfo :)

 

these tanks just need an armor nerf.

I face them with tanks that have 225 and 258 pen at tier 8 and 9, and I can't pen them ANYWHERE from the front, nor from about 65° on the side.

No, I don't shoot premium ammo.



DracheimFlug #16 Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:54 AM

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These tanks being OP is borne out in their average win rates and curves. That should be sufficient.

 

Making someone an average or slightly better than average player is not an argument against things. Last I checked, average players are still called scrubs around here... 



HunterXHunter8 #17 Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:02 AM

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while type 4/5 are OP

 

all i gotta say is cry more lel

where were you last year or in summer 2015 when the underpowered type 4/5 were released.

i was one of the first few people who had type 5 on eu server, let me tell you it wasn't a pleasant ride last 2 years. 

 

mediums used to humiliate type 5 by penning it easily, if they bounced they had heat. 14cm was so garbage still is, that it bounced or missed most of the time. 

 

now that it's been buffed, i can take my sweet revenge by slapping any tank in the fecking face.


Edited by HunterXHunter8, 17 July 2017 - 09:06 AM.


Hedgehog1963 #18 Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:08 AM

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OP is mad because Jap HTs are stunting his enjoyment of his Pay(Triot) 2W tank.

Lord_Edge #19 Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:29 AM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 16 July 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I don't see the problem, those tanks just fit his playstyle.

 

Indeed, looks to me like he's just better at HT than MT...

Sir_Bad #20 Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:58 AM

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Bad players always profit from tanks with high armor capabilities. Same thing for HE-Guns. So no big news there.

 

No worries though, I think adding two tiny 260mm weakspots (:trollface:) will completely fix the problematic nature of these tanks. Have some trust in WG now, would you! :hiding:






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