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A Guide to Winning

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_yung #1 Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:32 PM

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Hello, I'm Yung. Current ESL player and pubstomper in randoms. 

 

I've been currently trying my absolute hardest to reach 70% solo winrate in randoms (and I'm very close, 69%), and in doing this I thought I'd share my thoughts and experiences in what I personally think contributes to winning games along with how to execute said things. 

 

I'll start off by saying that a bot program that AFKs (that doesn't play at all) will have about a 40% winrate. This means that 40% of the time, your team can win without you over an extended amount of battles. You can also put that on the opposing end, 40% of the time, the enemy team will win with one player down as an average team vs another average team. This gives a wiggle room of 20% where your own impact really shows, but you can obviously push further. The second you start performing well enough to compensate for the lesser players in your team, that enemy chance of winning goes down and will keep doing so with your increased level of contributions. 

 

So off to the actual factors that actively contribute to winning: (I will go in deeper on each and every one of these below, this is just the list of them)

  • Damage outputs (this includes assisted damage)
  • Lineups and anticipating them
  • Map control
  • Vision control (this is not the same as map control, but more on that later)
  • Teamplay
  • Micromanaging
  • Progression

 

So let's start off with damage outputs:

 

This should be easy to understand for everyone, A higher damage output will give your team a better chance to win simply due to the enemy team having less HP to work with. The sooner this happens the better. A player at half HP will have a much harder time using his HP than one at full HP. Dealing decent damage early will help prevent enemy pushes due to lower HP pools on their end, and will generally lead to a more cautious playstyle that let's you play much more aggressive throughout the entire battle.  A team that can't push is a team that you can start playing around. 

There are two ways this plays out. Either a team wins through pushing, or through a game of attrition. Attrition games generally take very long, especially if your team is uncoordinated. Attrition games happen due to various lineups that don't really blend, or simply to player opinions on what they think is best. A common example would be an entire team camping the northwest corner on Fisherman's Bay and that's where map control and vision plays in so I'll get going on that soon. 

 

This means you need to hit your shots, penetrate your shots and use your tank, your team and whatever information you have at your disposal to maximize this output. Lower HP means a harder time contesting areas, and will let you take map control and be in control of the game you're playing. 

 

Reading Lineups: 

This is very simple. You have a 30 second countdown before the game starts, so use that time to analyze the enemy lineup compared to yours, and try and predict what might happen. If a team is very heavy it's fair to say it'll crowd up the heavy lanes a lot more, which leads to a harder push and might not be the right area to play that specific battle. You'll want to consider where your tank is strong, and where enemy tanks are weak. If you think you found one of those areas - go play it! I generally try to utilize my tanks strengths while mitigating my weaknesses. The E 50M for example is a tank with good mobility, good sidearmour and a potent gun. This means it's very versatile and can adjust accordingly to all of the above, even though it doesn't really outshine any other tank in anything. For tanks with a more defined playstyle you'll have to take into consideration too. A Maus might be too slow to get to the area you want to contest, and will have to make do with something else. This takes a lot of practice and after several years of playing this game there are still times where I get this wrong. Just keep trying and don't be too hard on yourself if your idea didn't pan out, just take note of what went wrong and have that in the back of your head the next time you consider something similar. 

 

Map Control:

An absolute necessity to win games and where many people fail. This includes such basic things as taking the hill on Mines, to slowly taking control of one side of a blitz map (like Erlenberg). 

 

Map control is two sides of the same coin. You ideally want as much as possible but you can't control it all at once. Even though maps are relatively small for 15v15 you'll still see that there's a meta in where certain tanks keep going. Some of this is completely pointless and some of it is not. For example: the Beach on Overlord is absolutely useless, it gives you no control over the rest of the map and you have to fight uphill to push out of it. It's a big nono for a controlling play where you want to decide what happens and what doesn't. 

 

So what you have to think about is what leads to what. A chain of events of sorts. Taking an area of a map should give you something in return for it, otherwise it's pointless. I'll take Fisherman's Bay as an example again: The city is a slow flank with tons of flanking firing lanes into it that really doesn't help the possibility of pushing it. So why people keep going there in their heavies over and over again? Even the best players? It's pretty simple. A meta formed because this lets you take control over the A line and K line respectively. Pushing the city simply makes you able to start controlling the enemy middle. This leads to your tanks playing the middle will have an easier time controlling the middle in return, and you've succesfully forced the enemy team into the 1-2-3 line with nowhere to go. 

That's how map control should work and it's one of the things that personally makes this game very interesting to me. 

 

Now this is based on the fact that your team is still holding the middle. Normally the heavy lane and the 1-2 line are very slow flanks meaning the middle usually ends up trading out a bit more than the rest of the map. So what do you do if the middle is withered out too much to do anything? Then the heavy lane push is basically useless. So you should do something else. If you cannot go up to the A line and start crossfiring the enemy mediums in the middle (even though they are still there) you can't move anywhere from there. Then this play was pointless and you could have done something else, something more productive. An example here would be to go reinforce the middle after you've determined that your team will win the city. Instead of pushing with them, go into the middle and make sure that your tanks that pushed through have something to shoot at with their crossfire and that's where vision control comes in. 

 

The same thing can be said about pushing the 1-2. I personally don't like that particular play because once you've won it the progression is more difficult. The middle is the glue that holds Fisherman's Bay together in terms of gameplay so even though it's the most important area it's not always the best play. Once you've successfully won the 1-2 line you start getting control and crossfire over the middle, but ridges and cover make it much harder so it's a bit harder to put into words even though it's certainly a possibility.

 

Vision Control: 

Also very simple, without spotted targets you simply have nothing to shoot at, nor does your teammates which means that you lack information to really do anything. 

This means that you'll have to take your team into consideration. As mentioned above, a push on the heavy lane on Fisherman's Bay might be possible, but if there isn't anything controlling the middle they have no way of doing anything else after that. Most of the heavies are too slow to move anywhere else, and if they try to push further they end up in the open with nowhere to hide. This means you have to enable your team. Taking the middle and playing it aggressively in a way that targets keep getting spotted means that your heavies have something to shoot at and after the middle thinned out, those heavies can now push further. Enabling vision for you, onto the 1-2 line. If you enable your team to do something, it usually ends up in them returning the favour. A constant consideration of this will really make you a better player. Even though your damage outputs might be same I can guarantee your winrate will go up if you get this right. 

 

Some maps don't allow for vision control very well, or simply don't need it (thanks corridor meta) so if you'd go onto vBAddict and look at your map winrate, you'd probably find maps like Windstorm, Pilsen and Sacred Valley on your higher winrate maps due to the fact that they basically eliminate one of the winning factors and makes the gameplay a bit easier. (I personally really like Pilsen still, the map works well enough without it). 

 

Teamplay:

Up until this point I've been talking about the more abstract long game that the top players are playing, but it's obviously not all that matters. Simple teamplay when it comes to trading, coordinating pushes and a combined effort to win a flank is just as important, and quite a bit easier to get the hang of. 

 

It's very simple and it basically comes down to being aware of your close surroundings (you'd be using the minimap for everything else) and see what your close teammates are doing, and what you can do because of what they are doing. If this means initiating a push, having to retreat, flanking, or simply staying where you are is all based on what's happening around you. And there really isn't much more too it than that. I don't recommend shielding teammates due to the fact that you simply don't know if it'll end up benefitting you or the team, so it's an unnecessary risk to take. And once you hit the point where you consider your own HP more valuable than a teammates (this might strike the wrong chord to some people, but a good player will do more than a bad player 9/10 times, so their HP is worth more) I really don't recommend initiating pushes on your own early in the game. The last thing you want to do is bleed HP so make sure that you have teammates ahead of you that can tank a shot so you can simply poke between their reloads and conserve your HP for when you need it. And that's all there is to it really, might not sound like a lot of teamplay but it's simply the way you have to play. I win more when I'm more selfish with my HP, so I will keep doing so until the situation arises where I might need to use it for my teammates sake due to that they can't push without my HP in the mix. 

 

Micromanaging:

This is all player skill AKA you and has nothing to do with your team. It's using your armour, fast aim and those pokes that are so fast that your enemy doesn't have time to react and shoot back at you. We call it micromanaging simply because it's how you manage your tank short term. Proper poking, armour usage and well aimed shots mean that your damage dealt/taken ratio gets better, and the better it is the more HP you at your disposal later. It sounds simple enough but is actually really hard. 

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/58998835

 

Here's a link of X3N4 (now retired) playing the hill on Malinovka in his 113. As you can see, the only damage he took was from artillery. Otherwise he ends up fighting several tanks at once, without even taking damage. This is a result of knowing enemy reloads, target priorities, his own armour and a bit of luck. Just penning your shots every single team really adds up. This a huge thing to really make you able to come out on top of what seems to be bad situations and has to do completely with player skill. If you are certain you can outskill someone, then why not? If you are absolutely certain you can outskill 4 tanks at once before your team comes to support you? A debatable decision at best, but in this case it worked out simply because of mechanical player skill. It has nothing to do with the meta game, or anything of the kind. With this, it's just you, your tank and the enemy/enemies you're facing. 

 

Progression:

This probably belongs between the mapcontrol/vision control aspect of the game, but it's different enough to make it a minor topic on its own. This is how you determine where to go next. You've won/lost your engagement so what do you do now? This is one thing normally stays the same for a lot of battles on the same maps. On Fishermans this example would be the already mentioned one to go middle instead of keep pushing. But there are situations where you need to progress even further, and really take the information you have at your disposal and do something with it. The minimap is your best friend and will let you know what's possible and what's not, so if you think you can go take middle aggressively on Erlenberg after winning a lemmingtrain on one side before the enemy has won theirs, then go do it. Progression is what helps you keep your gun in the game and is a result of mapcontrol/vision. It'll end up maximizing your damage outputs along with wins which is why I put it last. It's the final thing to really work on. Once you know how to progress, you can do it faster and voíla you'll end up having even better games/more wins. 

 

This was all I had to say for now, if there are any questions regarding maps (if you simply want me to go through one of them or whatever) or whatever's written then feel free to ask. 

 

Thanks for reading, Yung

 

 


Edited by _yung, 17 July 2017 - 07:38 PM.


wsatnutter #2 Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:39 PM

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good read

I_DiD_ #3 Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:41 PM

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Pro tips how to win random games :teethhappy:  

 

3-5-7 MM model made a lot harder to win with your own skill lvl, especially if top tiers are pure *****. 

 

Rest of us , not pro players have big luck with bunch of random zombies. Remember 1 tank can't win if you have 29 enemys. 

 

And nice play from X3N4, one of the top EU players if not the best.  But as you see, he had a lot of luck that enemys where pure *****. A bit skilled player would know that snap shooting on good angled tank won't give you damage.

 

 


Edited by I_DiD_, 17 July 2017 - 06:52 PM.


Dava_117 #4 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:04 PM

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Nice tips! Thank you! :great:

AdzTownstrike #5 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:04 PM

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Yes very good. Now all i need is a 907

WindSplitter1 #6 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:12 PM

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Good job. Yung.

Bookmarked.

THE_JACK_OF_HEARTS #7 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:14 PM

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good read, some things I need to learn thx.

qpranger #8 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:18 PM

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This is disappointing, I misread the thread title and thought it would be a guide to whining.

ZlatanArKung #9 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:23 PM

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View PostI_DiD_, on 17 July 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

Pro tips how to win random games :teethhappy:  

 

3-5-7 MM model made a lot harder to win with your own skill lvl, especially if top tiers are pure *****. 

 

Rest of us , not pro players have big luck with bunch of random zombies. Remember 1 tank can't win if you have 29 enemys. 

 

And nice play from X3N4, one of the top EU players if not the best.  But as you see, he had a lot of luck that enemys where pure *****. A bit skilled player would know that snap shooting on good angled tank won't give you damage.

 

 

 

If Xena was in a 1v4 and won. It was much more due to terrible enemies than his own prowess.

If he was a worse player, he wouldn't have managed, surely. But 4 enemies rushing 1 tank makes the 1 tank die fast.

 

If he had a few TDs covering him from an enemy rush at him. It is another situation.

 

This can also show why XVM makes players play worse. Say enemy saw the purple colour/FAME tag and was afraid of him because he had such good stats and thus didn't rush him. While they had done it if he had been green or something according to XVM.

 



Jigabachi #10 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:24 PM

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That's all good and some of the tips are helpful for every player regardless of what he wants to achieve in this game, but you forgot to mention that the tanks you drive play a MAJOR role. Otherwise you wouldn't have nothing but OP/overperforming or similar tanks in your garage.
Also, your understanding of "teamplay" might be different to what other people link with that term.

But still. Lots of good advice, didn't read a thread like this since ages.
When you said that your goal is reaching 70% it should be obvious what this is about, but that doesn't mean that it's all meh.

ZlatanArKung #11 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:24 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 17 July 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

This is disappointing, I misread the thread title and thought it would be a guide to whining.

 

Poor hamster! Want something to put in your cheek? 



qpranger #12 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:29 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 17 July 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

 

Poor hamster! Want something to put in your cheek? 

 

Already got my tongue in it.

_yung #13 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:30 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 17 July 2017 - 06:24 PM, said:

That's all good and some of the tips are helpful for every player regardless of what he wants to achieve in this game, but you forgot to mention that the tanks you drive play a MAJOR role. Otherwise you wouldn't have nothing but OP/overperforming or similar tanks in your garage.
Also, your understanding of "teamplay" might be different to what other people link with that term.

But still. Lots of good advice, didn't read a thread like this since ages.
When you said that your goal is reaching 70% it should be obvious what this is about, but that doesn't mean that it's all meh.

 

My current garage is selective simply due it's the tanks I have. It'll change soon enough. I've always enjoyed fast paced mediums that can aggro well so there'll be some bias there. On the other end there's always some bias no matter the class you prefer. My favourite tank is the E 50M so that's the tank I decided to grind out first. Not really a tank I'd call OP for anything, just well balanced. 

 

The 907 is broken and I'll admit that, but it's a harsh grind for a 3mark, after that I'll probably stop playing it. 

 

Tank selection will always be a big deal, flavour of the month OP-ness of buffs or simply downright broken tanks that overperform for ones skill level, and I've tried to sort of make that irrelevant here. You don't need broken tanks to reach these heights. Good play is all that matters to me. If I wanted to "just" win I'd just grind up a Maus and spam it until it gets nerfed, but then the whole point of my challenge has disappeared.

 

View Postqpranger, on 17 July 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

This is disappointing, I misread the thread title and thought it would be a guide to whining.

 

I'm pretty good at that too. I could whip something up the next time I have a few hours to spare Kappa

 

View PostZlatanArKung, on 17 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

 

If Xena was in a 1v4 and won. It was much more due to terrible enemies than his own prowess.

If he was a worse player, he wouldn't have managed, surely. But 4 enemies rushing 1 tank makes the 1 tank die fast.

 

If he had a few TDs covering him from an enemy rush at him. It is another situation.

 

This can also show why XVM makes players play worse. Say enemy saw the purple colour/FAME tag and was afraid of him because he had such good stats and thus didn't rush him. While they had done it if he had been green or something according to XVM.

 

 

I think you underestimate the potential of a single player here. Everything in that video was very well timed. They couldn't just push on him because his teammates are behind cresting any second after. They could poke on him, and him alone but they weren't going to push him. All he needed to do there was to make sure that he gives enough shots, and mitigates enough taken. That's what he did. This was before the arty rework so obviously the arty can destroy a position like this that's very static, but the task at hand was to fight the tanks trying to control the hill, which he did. And in return his team took the hill. Without him, the game would have looked very different there. 


 

ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:53 PM

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View Post_yung, on 17 July 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

 

I'm pretty good at that too. I could whip something up the next time I have a few hours to spare Kappa

 

 

I think you underestimate the potential of a single player here. Everything in that video was very well timed. They couldn't just push on him because his teammates are behind cresting any second after. They could poke on him, and him alone but they weren't going to push him. All he needed to do there was to make sure that he gives enough shots, and mitigates enough taken. That's what he did. This was before the arty rework so obviously the arty can destroy a position like this that's very static, but the task at hand was to fight the tanks trying to control the hill, which he did. And in return his team took the hill. Without him, the game would have looked very different there. 

 

If he has tanks coming any sec, then he had support (kind of) and wasn't that alone, thus a push on him would be a different matter compared to him being alone without support/incoming support.

 

Watched it now aswell. And implying he was alone against 4 enemies is exaggerating a lot.

 

I feel a common missplay in this game is to not push a numerical advantage when the chance of such a push is given to a team.


Edited by ZlatanArKung, 17 July 2017 - 07:58 PM.


brumbarr #15 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:57 PM

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Nice read, I might try that one day, I feel i have more potential in WR but I have been miseducates by 3 marking tanks the last year, and acquired a playstyle focused on getting as much assist and dmf as possible. Prob not the playstyle to use to win as much as possible.  
A major difference is that you dont go to the flanm important to win the battle but to the flank where most dmg can be farmed.

_yung #16 Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:00 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 17 July 2017 - 06:57 PM, said:

A major difference is that you dont go to the flanm important to win the battle but to the flank where most dmg can be farmed.

If the early game is played right then those two are the exact same thing :D 



ZlatanArKung #17 Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:03 PM

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I die oh so often because I see a numerical advantage on an area and go in, just to see my team mates stay behind their cover and don't shoot or go in.



brumbarr #18 Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:04 PM

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View Post_yung, on 17 July 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

If the early game is played right then those two are the exact same thing :D 

Not always, going east on serene coast to farm high hp heavys, going in magic malinovka bush to farm assist and your team then camps base. Lots of examples wherw you go to irrelvant flank where there happens to be lots of HP.



I_LOVE_RNG_ #19 Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:08 PM

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Edited

Edited by Asklepi0s, 18 July 2017 - 09:07 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


arthurwellsley #20 Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:02 PM

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Nice guide.

Good luck with the 70% win rate







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