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Why do people dislike derp guns so much?


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WindSplitter1 #1 Posted 23 July 2017 - 07:55 PM

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It's not hard to figure it out in SPGs and overbuffed Japanese Heavies, but why is that a problem on the rest of the vehicles?

 

Maybe I am generalizing but just saw a post depicting the said hate. I keep seeing this complaint from above average players but have found no reasoning behind it.



Schemezoid #2 Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:10 PM

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Well, everything in this game shits on lightly armoured vehicles, basicly anything that isnt russian

FluffyRedFox #3 Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:10 PM

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Because they're completely awful for gameplay. Its great playing a heavy tank to its strengths by angling your armour to have that completely nullified by some HE spamming muppet auto aiming you. 

ZlatanArKung #4 Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:11 PM

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They negate armour.
They can 1 shot tanks if blessed by RNG.

Nishi_Kinuyo #5 Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:14 PM

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Because they're unreliable.

Yeah, you always* deal damage, but unless you hit the weaker armour parts, it isn't going to be much.

Not to mention the crap accuracy and handling on almost all of them meaning that only half your shots ever go where you want them to go.

And once in a hundred battles you'll one-shot an enemy.

 

*Unless you hit armour thick enough to reduce your damage to zero, or spaced armour.



GekkoGordon #6 Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:22 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 23 July 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

Because they're unreliable.

Yeah, you always* deal damage, but unless you hit the weaker armour parts, it isn't going to be much.

Not to mention the crap accuracy and handling on almost all of them meaning that only half your shots ever go where you want them to go.

And once in a hundred battles you'll one-shot an enemy.

 

*Unless you hit armour thick enough to reduce your damage to zero, or spaced armour.

 

Sure Bollocks-San, slap a Type 5 HE shell near the Maus turret ring area for 500 damage. Much weak, very unreliable

Edited by GekkoGordon, 23 July 2017 - 08:23 PM.


japtank #7 Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:32 PM

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I hate derps because I often hit a mauss turret for 59 damage with my type5 while any other tank (those usually complaining about the type 5) could deal 400+

xx984 #8 Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:44 PM

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Because they take no skill what so ever. Just slowly waddle round the corner, auto aim at a tank thats supposed to be well armoured, click,  do 500+ damage, slowly waddle back around the corner. hue hue much skill

Jigabachi #9 Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:51 PM

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There are only a few HE tanks that really are a problem, but I agree that even the more balanced ones need a minor nerf in general, mostly a max damage cut.

Edited by Jigabachi, 23 July 2017 - 08:52 PM.


PowJay #10 Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:01 PM

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I don't like facing derp guns, but I generally don't like playing with them either. The only exception from all of my tanks are the Hetzer, KV-2 (of course) and the SU-152, obviously. 

 

To remain on topic- I don't complain about them because they are part of the game, and if I am stupidenough to be destroyed by their strengths (1-shot kill) while not making the most of their weaknesses (long reload, poor accuracy, long shell flight time and poor armour penetration) then a lot of it is my fault.

 

I can't make them work for me and I prefer higher RoF and armour penetration. 


Edited by PowJay, 23 July 2017 - 09:11 PM.


Enforcer1975 #11 Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:06 PM

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Ever heard of the term noobtube?

leggasiini #12 Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:06 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 23 July 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

Because they're unreliable.

Yeah, you always* deal damage, but unless you hit the weaker armour parts, it isn't going to be much.

Not to mention the crap accuracy and handling on almost all of them meaning that only half your shots ever go where you want them to go.

And once in a hundred battles you'll one-shot an enemy.

 

*Unless you hit armour thick enough to reduce your damage to zero, or spaced armour.

 

He asked that why people hate and whine about derp guns (playing against them), not playing with something that has derp gun.

 

---------

 

Derps are hated because large caliber HE shell does (almost) always damage. Think like, you are in a heavy tank. There is Japanese heavy at enemy team with derp gun. You sidescrape, but before you can expose your gun and shoot him, he blasts your side armor and does damage, no matter what angle, and probably tracks you, so you cant shoot him back in time. Lets imagine you have thick enough side armor so that no AP/HEAT/APCR gun would ever damage you at that place where HE shell hit you.

 

Derp gun (150mm+) can also autoaim and still do atleast some damage and has chance for quite dumb module damages (imagine losing 10 HP but gunner being killed). Sure, against thick armored targets aiming is benefittical, but unless its Maus you can shoot it into most places and still do damage. It isnt that important where HE hits; its more important where the HE shell can splash into. Thats why you can blast Kranvagn perfectly hulldown for 600 damage with Type 5 Heavy because it will splash into his armor around gun and onto hull roof, which both are very poorly armored. On other hand, even JP E100 struggles to pen Kranvagn when hulldown, even with HEAT.

 

The module damage is one reason, like already mentioned, why people hate arty, derp guns and basically, all HE shells that has possibility to do meaningful damage. And its not just the module damage itself, but its the fact its completely random. You might shoot a medium tank into [edited]with FV215b 183, do 1700 damage, but wont do any module damage. On other hand, an arty could hit Maus for 100 but kill 2 of his crew. Thats how random and stupid HE module damage is and should be the first thing to be looked at when it comes to reworking HE mechanics.

 

And finally, actually not as big reason but still notable is the gigantic damage a 150 mm howitzer can do to poorly armored targets when it penetrates. Getting oneshotted is no fun, simple as that. That was big reason why pre-9.18 arty was hated.

 

So all in all, derp gun user can just point his gun towards the enemy, shoot, and still do damage most of the time. It annoys people, because it more or less defeats the entire wide, colorful concept of armor and angling it. Sure, you do less damage against a Maus than against a Batchat, but it still does damage. 

 

Its even worse when it comes to Japanese heavies because WG decided to balanced them retardely by giving them uniformal armor profile with next to no weakspots or at some cases, no weakspots at all (type 5). Generally derp tanks atleast have poor armor, so even if they can "negate" your armor you can still pen them most of time when you shoot them back. Not so much with Jap heavies.

 

Best solution to this is to rework both HE mechanics and Japanese heavy line. Reworking HE mechanic would also make arty bit less annoying, though it still wouldnt "fix" the class.

 



Tinbawx #13 Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:39 PM

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Derps have always been a plague in World of Tanks.

From old T18, to 105s in their hayday, to Deathstar with unnerfed HESH to Godzilla tanks now.



DracheimFlug #14 Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:08 PM

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View Postfishbob101, on 23 July 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

Because they're completely awful for gameplay. Its great playing a heavy tank to its strengths by angling your armour to have that completely nullified by some HE spamming muppet auto aiming you. 

 

View PostZlatanArKung, on 23 July 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

They negate armour.
They can 1 shot tanks if blessed by RNG.

 

Love the rhetoric... 'Completely nullify' as if they always do full damage. Against a heavily armoured target, they won't even necessarily do anything at all, and if they do it is likely peanuts.

 

'How dare you scratch my paint!' is a lousy battle cry.



FluffyRedFox #15 Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:20 PM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 23 July 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

 

 

Love the rhetoric... 'Completely nullify' as if they always do full damage

Yeah because it totally matters when someone only does 350 damage on a well angled target rather than the advertised 910, when a normal gun would've just bounced....



DracheimFlug #16 Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:25 PM

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View Postfishbob101, on 23 July 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

Yeah because it totally matters when someone only does 350 damage on a well angled target rather than the advertised 910, when a normal gun would've just bounced....

 

And when the normal gun would not have bounced? And the derp would have only done 35 points, or nothing at all?

 

You know what else totally negates armour? A regular gun with sufficient penetration. 

 

Oh and doing 350 instead of 910 is still armour being effective. A lighter armoured tank would have taken more damage. 

 

You are also completely ignoring that most if not all such guns have lower rates of fire.



AvengerOrion #17 Posted 23 July 2017 - 11:55 PM

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Amusing as it is when you are on the dealing side of the derp gun, it is rather annoying that a player can take off 30-100% of your hp by just pointing his mouse at you.

Stylepoints though for when 2 KV-2s take out each other with 1 round.



Coldspell #18 Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:22 AM

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I miss the derp on the VK2801..... it was just so much fun derping around the place....... I don't understand how the VK2801 can't keep its derp gun even though existing tier 6 meds could already equip a better version of it even pre lt changes.

jack_timber #19 Posted 24 July 2017 - 06:41 AM

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I reckon you should also ask why folks use derp guns. The only tank I have that is fitted with the aforementioned gun is the SU152. 

Why, well often bottom tier, so at least in a T9 matchup I can do some damage with HE, mind u premium has 250mm pen but is unreliable due to dispersion. I would agree that when top tier it can be over powerful, but then again could say the same for other tanks. Downside to using these Derps is poor accuracy, long reload time.

TBH never come across these 'haters' in battle.

As someone said in a previous post if u had the choice of which gun to use during the 30 second countdown I probably would use the 122mm gun instead on some battles. But failing that I stick with the derp. 



RamRaid90 #20 Posted 24 July 2017 - 06:48 AM

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Nothing should be able to destroy any tank -1/+1 tier that it meets in the game in a single shot. Just my opinion.

 

Kv-2 will almost always destroy every tier 5 in a single shot, unless the victim is extremely lucky, or the Kv-2 driver is an imbecile. It can also one shot alot of tier VI tanks, such as the Cromwell and even itself. This shouldn't be allowed.






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