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CREATE LEAGUES BASED ON PLAYER'S SKILLS

LEAGUES

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Asyrys #1 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:01 AM

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Dear all, dear WoT makers, please think seriously about implementing of LEAGUES, based on the player's skill (at least wn8).This is already used by serious games (Starcraft 2, etc) since more than 20 years. It is not normal that a kid or low-very low skilled players to play together with average-good-pro players...Each player must play at his own skilled category, and there are a lot of advantages for all categories ( the low skilled players are not killed at first contact, the better skilled players are not losing games due to 2-3 low-skilled players. I understand the financiary reasons , but in my opinion until this game does not create somehow kind of leagues, where each player , according to his skill level will play with players at barely same level, this game mostly is a mess. The matchmaking still have a lot of isues, i dont know what variables are taken in consideration in MM formula, but, still not barely equal MM..

Spurtung #2 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:15 AM

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You got ranked battles (whenever 1st season stars) and that's the closest to what you're asking for,

laulaur #3 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:29 AM

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No.

We have SH and Ranked Battles skill based, that is enough . 

 



Aikl #4 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:31 AM

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WN8 is an utterly pointless measure of skill, in particular now that tanks of same class and tier share damage requirements. It is further proven by certain (cough) players having a far higher WN8 than their win rate would suggest - typically accompanied by a 'spotted vehicles' indicator under '1'. That's typical for 'redline snipers', able to survive long enough to deal three-four shots of damage before they die, but not able to actually contribute to a win (because the damage is done far too late). Frankly, at a glance OP is guilty of this, though I'm guessing playing a lot of artillery makes the stats somewhat irrelevant.

 

Skill-based matchmaking was tried in Armored Warfare, and was considered a total failure. It is doomed to fail in WoT as well, and it's not like you have to play random battles all the time if you can't cope with how that works.

 

...although I wouldn't mind 'branding' players who don't really try to play the game and then attempt to throw them into games together. If sitting in a bush for ten minutes is fun for someone it would make sense to give them that opportunity. That would literally make both 'camps' happy - if you camp too much you get to play with campers! 

 

(Oh, wait, if everyone camps, there's noone for the campers to shoot at! Darnit, major flaw in this plan. :rolleyes:  )


Edited by Aikl, 25 July 2017 - 07:57 PM.


Pvt_Duffer #5 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:51 AM

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22K battles,

12+ TX tanks,

1 post on the forum,

0 clue.



lord_chipmonk #6 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:52 AM

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We already have ranked battles. 

Unkel_Dolan #7 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:54 AM

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Edited

Edited by Asklepi0s, 25 July 2017 - 02:32 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


unhappy_bunny #8 Posted 25 July 2017 - 02:07 PM

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View PostAsyrys, on 25 July 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

Dear all, dear WoT makers, please think seriously about implementing of LEAGUES, based on the player's skill (at least wn8).This is already used by serious games (Starcraft 2, etc) since more than 20 years. It is not normal that a kid or low-very low skilled players to play together with average-good-pro players...Each player must play at his own skilled category, and there are a lot of advantages for all categories ( the low skilled players are not killed at first contact, the better skilled players are not losing games due to 2-3 low-skilled players. I understand the financiary reasons , but in my opinion until this game does not create somehow kind of leagues, where each player , according to his skill level will play with players at barely same level, this game mostly is a mess. The matchmaking still have a lot of isues, i dont know what variables are taken in consideration in MM formula, but, still not barely equal MM..

 

Dear Asyrys,

As you have asked the question, one assumes you have put some thought into it, so how about you tell us how you would formulate a leagues system?

Firstly, how many players would you need to form a league? Bearing in mind you need 30 for a battle. 

What would you use to determine which league a player goes into?

Would you have promotion and relegation between leagues? If so, on what basis? If not, why would anyone want to play they cannot move upwards?

 

What do you think would happen to MM in trying to find suitable teams for a battle? Maybe not a lot of difference at tomato level, but at higher level, supposing most players pick a HT in Tier 10. Would you want constant battles between 30 HT's? or what if you pick a MT and the MM can only find 29 HT's to put into the battle? Would you be happy then? 

And how would you feel if having more "balanced" teams resulted in a drop in your stats? Or do you hope it will improve them?

 

 

 

 



Jigabachi #9 Posted 25 July 2017 - 03:17 PM

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View PostAsyrys, on 25 July 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

Dear all, dear WoT makers, please think seriously about implementing of LEAGUES, based on the player's skill

Leagues are the worst kind of skillbased MM, as they completely cut apart the playerbase.

 

Block Quote

(at least wn8).

WN8 isn't part of the game. It's a third party stat and completely useless, especially for those endeavours..

 

Block Quote

This is already used by serious games (Starcraft 2, etc) since more than 20 years.

Hint: Starcraft is mostly 1vs1. WoT is a teambased multiplayergame.

 

Block Quote

It is not normal that a kid or low-very low skilled players to play together with average-good-pro players...Each player must play at his own skilled category,

Oh... and why exactly?

 

Block Quote

I understand the financiary reasons , but in my opinion until this game does not create somehow kind of leagues, where each player , according to his skill level will play with players at barely same level, this game mostly is a mess.

It's a mess because of the massive imbalance of bad (80% of the playerbase) and non-bad players (20% of the playerbase) and it would become an even bigger (and boring) mess if they introduced leagues.

Old games never or rarely had leagues - and they worked fine. Bad and new players were able to learn from good players, good players were able to proudly wave their dic... flags. Everyone had fun because there was variation - a good mix between challenge and a chance to shine.

 

Now let's say they introduced leagues. Given that you are a barely average player and a very bad player when we only watch higher tiers... do you even realize that you would end up with the bad players? Is that really what you want?

 

Block Quote

The matchmaking still have a lot of isues, i dont know what variables are taken in consideration in MM formula, but, still not barely equal MM..

Equal regarding what? Playerskill? Well. There is no skillbased MM. But it will balance out over time, as you will get placed in both good and bad teams.


Edited by Jigabachi, 25 July 2017 - 03:17 PM.


Sams_Baneblade #10 Posted 25 July 2017 - 03:49 PM

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Nah, smashing bobs is fine.

Lots of them seems enjoy being at the bottom of the food chain, we shouldn't disappoint them by placing them in full-tomato teams throwing dirt at each other. :trollface:

 

(although I would pay to watch 15v15 bots)



Ojciec_Director #11 Posted 25 July 2017 - 03:56 PM

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View PostPvt_Duffer, on 25 July 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

22K battles,

12+ TX tanks,

1 post on the forum,

0 clue.

 

16k battles

48 % WR

2100 + posts 

Still suck in game, but active on forum


Edited by Ojciec_Director, 25 July 2017 - 04:00 PM.


Bora_BOOM #12 Posted 25 July 2017 - 03:59 PM

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I have a fantastic idea

how to solve all the problems

that nobody has ever thought of

and will do it in my first forum post

without thorough thinking...

 

If you check the above you will realise 5 parts exist. Surprisingly what we have here is a 5x fail.


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 25 July 2017 - 04:01 PM.


imperiumgraecum #13 Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:00 PM

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View PostAsyrys, on 25 July 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

Dear all, dear WoT makers, please think seriously about implementing of LEAGUES, based on the player's skill (at least wn8).This is already used by serious games (Starcraft 2, etc) since more than 20 years. It is not normal that a kid or low-very low skilled players to play together with average-good-pro players...Each player must play at his own skilled category, and there are a lot of advantages for all categories ( the low skilled players are not killed at first contact, the better skilled players are not losing games due to 2-3 low-skilled players. I understand the financiary reasons , but in my opinion until this game does not create somehow kind of leagues, where each player , according to his skill level will play with players at barely same level, this game mostly is a mess. The matchmaking still have a lot of isues, i dont know what variables are taken in consideration in MM formula, but, still not barely equal MM..

 

no, I like farming sub-1k wn8 nabz

ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:03 PM

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Just make a separate Dota 2/LOL like skillbased Matchmaker (they base it upon rating, you gain rating when you win and lose rating when you lose). Then it constructs team with as close rating as possible on average.  Top players are as close in rating as possible. Rating spread is as small as possible.
Etc.

It would me much better then grind-battles and SH etc.

ZlatanArKung #15 Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:05 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 25 July 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

You got ranked battles (whenever 1st season stars) and that's the closest to what you're asking for,

If only ranked battles where skillbased in any way, shape or form.



Spurtung #16 Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:23 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 25 July 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

If only ranked battles where skillbased in any way, shape or form.

 

Didn't say they were. I said they're the closest to it there is at the moment.

Tidal_Force #17 Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:33 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 25 July 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

If only ranked battles where skillbased in any way, shape or form.

 

2 years ago I stopped asking for skill based MM. You know why? Because I realised that WG would implement it in way that goes against the purpose of skill based or ranked MM. Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.

Kozzy #18 Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:51 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 25 July 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

Just make a separate Dota 2/LOL like skillbased Matchmaker (they base it upon rating, you gain rating when you win and lose rating when you lose). Then it constructs team with as close rating as possible on average. Top players are as close in rating as possible. Rating spread is as small as possible.
Etc.

It would me much better then grind-battles and SH etc.

 

As long as it is a separate mode that people can opt-in to then I'm all for this.  As for 'random' battle mode?  Let's keep that random, shall we? ;)

arthurwellsley #19 Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:04 AM

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View PostAsyrys, on 25 July 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Dear all, dear WoT makers, please think seriously about implementing of LEAGUES, based on the player's skill (at least wn8).This is already used by serious games (Starcraft 2, etc) since more than 20 years. It is not normal that a kid or low-very low skilled players to play together with average-good-pro players...Each player must play at his own skilled category, and there are a lot of advantages for all categories ( the low skilled players are not killed at first contact, the better skilled players are not losing games due to 2-3 low-skilled players. I understand the financiary reasons , but in my opinion until this game does not create somehow kind of leagues, where each player , according to his skill level will play with players at barely same level, this game mostly is a mess. The matchmaking still have a lot of isues, i dont know what variables are taken in consideration in MM formula, but, still not barely equal MM..

 

wn8 has been debased since it moved to tier based and away from individual vehicle based, and in any event it is created and run by players.

 

PR rating is what WG created.

 

Stronghold battles balance teams on the basis of PR, this is effectively a skill based league which you asked for. Have you even tried playing Strongholds since the recent changes? Maybe think about joining a clan that plays the skill based Strongholds? Maybe try it?

 

In game you may have noticed the Beta test of "Ranked Battles" recently. Your "rank" at the end of each week rewarded bonds. These battles and rewards are supposed to promote "skill" leagues, although what "skill" is required to progress is somewhat debateable in the manner that WG have implemented this mode. Did you try it OP?







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