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XVM Forecast And Suicide


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:21 AM

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Hey guys,

 

We've all seen the similar comments on the battle countdown from some players that clearly use XVM like "another loser squad" or "****ing noobs!" etc etc followed by a suicide drowning where possible. Now I don't use XVM but equally if a player uses it that's cool imo so long as it's used as a positive addition to a players gameplay and not this sort of childish butthurt behavior. The thing about it is, we've all seen when the so called moron team of bots and tomatoes go on to comfortably win but they may well get slaughtered as XVM predicted too.. as can happen in any given battle tbh when certain scenarios come to pass and the team reaches "critical mass" but annoyingly, suiciding at the begging of an "insta loss" xvm forecast is further increasing the likelihood of that loss coming to pass by immediately reducing your team to 14vs15 or 13vs15 in some cases so the team is already at a disadvantage before a single shot is fired and should the team then go on an lose, this belief in XVM's forecasting is only strengthened in the mindset of that suicide player to the point that the willingness to fight in anything other than a close or winning forecast is totally removed from that players mindset.. this is not good for the game.

 

Don't get me wrong and I will not be hypocritical here, I get annoyed too when a string of loses or a team of dullards plod along getting wrecked or hide behind buildings and hills all battle long or don't help when they could safely and easily do so.. but I stay and slug it out anyway and sometimes we can scrape a win, usually an epic win in which I'm delighted I stuck around for and fought it out. Don't forget, if the XVM is saying there is a massive loss on the horizon why not see it as an opportunity to bag a Radleys or a Pools or whatever epic medal or just an epic win? you want lots of damage caused to 3 mark your tank? Well suicide gets the maximum amount of nothing obviously whereas if you stayed and fought, if you are good enough, there is also good potential to farm lots of damage because there are gonna be lots of targets coming your way.. might not win but tbh if you're chasing MoE or good stats who cares so long as you wreck enough tanks right?

 

What do you guys feel about XVM as a positive and negative influence on gameplay and what do you feel about players that take XVM's forecast as gospel truth? commit suicide as a result but lets also not forget a heavily favored win prediction can also sow the seeds of overconfidence and yolo mindset into players approach to a battle in which they simply disrespect the supposed poor opposition and this leads to a massive loss to team tomato lol?



Spurtung #2 Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:36 AM

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I don't care about XVM and all its garage features or even stat displaying. It's WG's fault to provide data of people that don't even have XVM to begin with. That feature, in matches, is simply toxic.

Jumping_Turtle #3 Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:38 AM

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I dont even have the forcast in my xvm anymore for some reason...

alienslive #4 Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:55 AM

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I always said the XVM forecast has a negative effect on the game. It is a stupid number for who wants to believe/trust something.

And imho if you play without xvm you can more focus on the battle and improve yourself. (4ever vanilla!)



IncandescentGerbil #5 Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:05 AM

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It's all [edited]and what the WN8 obsessed kids don't get is that e.g a "thirty percenter" effectively means, in XVM's mind, they will still win three times out of ten. Or slightly better odds than they will get on winning £2 on their favourite scratchcard.
The game should be the same for everyone, and if there's a UI change that needs implementing, it should come from WG. Stats are a tool for tools. They should not be available for public consumption.

Enterprise_NCC1701A #6 Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:12 AM

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i am one of them that suicide if MY prediction is that the mm is heavily unbalanced. It is better to let the team know that you don't want to play than wait till the end and farm maximum damage possible at their expense. I don't suicide because of the unbalanced game, it is a frustration against wg who permits similar mm. And i prefer start another one where chances of performing are better. I don't use the %win bot, I JUDGE the mm and decide if it is worthy or it isn't. Am i the bad guy here? Possible but i use only tools given and allowed (as aslain mod pack) by the game, so i do as i decide better for myself. I agree though that xvm is a prediction and about 80-85% right, NOT a gospel!

StinkyStonky #7 Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:15 AM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 31 July 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

I dont even have the forcast in my xvm anymore for some reason...

 

The reason is that XVM removed the win percentage two or three patches ago.  It was just ridiculously inaccurate.

 

These days players are forced to make their own prediction based on what XVM does display.

 

I look at the number of Red/Orange and Green/Blue on each team.  If there is a significant mismatch then I accept that one of the teams is most likely to win.  With that knowledge I adjust my play t try to maximise my performance in the game.  

If my team has all the green/blues then I play very aggressively ... so that I can do some damage and get some XP before the unicorns kill everything.

If my team has all the reds/oranges then I play cautiously and try to snipe/farm damage from the blue wolf packs that are decimating my team.

 

Incidentally the phenomena the OP describes, of early suicide is, in my experience, extremely rare.  I suspect when it does happen it's caused more by a wife/mother telling the player it's time for bed, than anything XVM displays.



IncandescentGerbil #8 Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:29 AM

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View PostEnterprise_NCC1701A, on 31 July 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

i am one of them that suicide if MY prediction is that the mm is heavily unbalanced. It is better to let the team know that you don't want to play than wait till the end and farm maximum damage possible at their expense. I don't suicide because of the unbalanced game, it is a frustration against wg who permits similar mm. And i prefer start another one where chances of performing are better. I don't use the %win bot, I JUDGE the mm and decide if it is worthy or it isn't. Am i the bad guy here? Possible but i use only tools given and allowed (as aslain mod pack) by the game, so i do as i decide better for myself. I agree though that xvm is a prediction and about 80-85% right, NOT a gospel!

Yes you are the bad guy. You are childish and selfish. If others wish to try, then why should you be any different?



Hedgehog1963 #9 Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:45 AM

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I can forecast that someone will ask the same question every week forever.

hson_hson #10 Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:56 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 31 July 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Don't forget, if the XVM is saying there is a massive loss on the horizon why not see it as an opportunity to bag a Radleys or a Pools or whatever epic medal or just an epic win? you want lots of damage caused to 3 mark your tank? Well suicide gets the maximum amount of nothing obviously whereas if you stayed and fought, if you are good enough, there is also good potential to farm lots of damage because there are gonna be lots of targets coming your way.. might not win but tbh if you're chasing MoE or good stats who cares so long as you wreck enough tanks right?

 

Do you really think that those who suicide because of MM care (or are even able ) to get even 1 moe?

 



SilentFear #11 Posted 31 July 2017 - 12:35 PM

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Thats people failing to utilize the powerful information in XVM. They are the bots that normaly dont do jack whole game and mostly wait to be carried. If you remove XVM they will find a different reason to fail - its hardcoded in their DNA.

 

I have been using XVM from my first 500 battles. Once you learn to read it - its more powerful then all the aim bots and tundra mods in the world.

Whit good understanding of stats, tanks strengths and weaknesses you can predict where most tanks will go on the map almost exactly. You can mostly predict how a player will act when cornered, how much hp you will probably lose if 1vs1 ect.

 

One thing however is - 43-46%ers and 65+%ers are very hard to predict. Especially the 43-46%ers.



Negativvv #12 Posted 31 July 2017 - 01:11 PM

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I use XVM so I know which group of tanks to stick with and who is the threat when I'm in a fight.

 

No point letting it depress you with the % win chance although if your win chance is way in the green then you know it's time to go on the offensive or get no damage...



Jumping_Turtle #13 Posted 31 July 2017 - 01:53 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 31 July 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

 

The reason is that XVM removed the win percentage two or three patches ago.  It was just ridiculously inaccurate.

 

 

Than why are people still complaining about it when it is not even there anymore ...



TungstenHitman #14 Posted 31 July 2017 - 01:57 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 31 July 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

I use XVM so I know which group of tanks to stick with and who is the threat when I'm in a fight.

 

 

If I had XVM this would be one of the major reasons why, although it's far from foolproof. So many times I would be pushing down a flank with two or three teammates right on my shoulder with just one enemy tank all alone and these guys, regardless of the "T" and F7 from me and "affirmative" replies from them, turn a simple 3 vs 1, a 7,500 dpm vs 2,500 dpm into a 1vs1 and I get wrecked NEEDLESSLY.. if I had xvm then I would pretty much guess know they were going to stop and not help like they do most the time.. follow, hide and watch.. then retreat and hide and watch, rinse and repeat



StinkyStonky #15 Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:06 PM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 31 July 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

Than why are people still complaining about it when it is not even there anymore ...

 

Let me look into my crystal ball for you ... ah, here it is ... The OP saw someone rage quit at the start of a game and assumed that there must have been a bad XVM win channce, as that's one thing the OP remembers from the olden days when he used XVM.  Given the new rant material he decided to write a post.

 

Here are some other threads from when the feature was removed from XVM (in April).

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/541537-chance-to-win-not-displaying/

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/541339-is-xvm-win-chance-turned-off/

 



TungstenHitman #16 Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:10 PM

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View PostSilentFear, on 31 July 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

 

 

I have been using XVM from my first 500 battles. Once you learn to read it - its more powerful then all the aim bots and tundra mods in the world.

Whit good understanding of stats, tanks strengths and weaknesses you can predict where most tanks will go on the map almost exactly. You can mostly predict how a player will act when cornered, how much hp you will probably lose if 1vs1 ect.

 

Is that the mod that highlights the tanks weakspots and if they are loading or not? whatever about displaying players wn8 or stats, I really think any mod that outlines tanks weakspots but especially the reload status is nothing short of cheating. I know these are mods that we are all free to download(if your pc can run smoothly with them) but part of the challenge is to learn tanks weakspots yourself(outside of lower plate cupola default "go to") so armour has actually some use and of some benefit? The reload status is a f***ing outrage imo.. I don't play autoloaders but while their strength is a massive burst of firepower in a short time they're major weakness is the slow reload so part of the fun is trying to draw their fire and counting their shots for yourself and knowing how many each tank has to make a calculated guess that they are reloading... equally if you are using an autuloader and reloading, if your enemy does not no that you can bluff your way through most or all of that reload time by making fake advances and all the suggestions you are not reloading.. but if the enemy know you are reloading then that's just bulls***.. same for an arty.. if I'm in an LT or paper tank and don't know a cornered arty behind a building is reloading I will very rarely dare to charge in there but if I DO know he is reloading then the game of cat and mouse is over.. it just shouldn't be allowed.. I don't know how you guys feel about those mods but for me it's as blatant as cheating gets and a MASSIVE advantage. Same with the clearing grass and bushes mods etc.. if it is clearly making your ability deal damage easier then without or easier to win than without, then it's just wrong to allow it.



NiemandXL #17 Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:17 PM

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It's not just XVM anymore. The balancing has become so bad that tanks on many maps are more important than stats. I take a potato in a Maus or Type 5 over a Unicum in a Leopard on garbage maps like Paris any day. And when you get a map like that and one team gets super heavies while the other gets paper tanks as top tiers you do not need XVM to know what is going to happen.

 

(I really wish they would add bodies of water to Paris so I can drown myself each time I end up there with a light tank)



TungstenHitman #18 Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:18 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 31 July 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

 

Let me look into my crystal ball for you ... ah, here it is ... The OP saw someone rage quit at the start of a game and assumed that there must have been a bad XVM win channce, as that's one thing the OP remembers from the olden days when he used XVM.  Given the new rant material he decided to write a post.

 

Here are some other threads from when the feature was removed from XVM (in April).

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/541537-chance-to-win-not-displaying/

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/541339-is-xvm-win-chance-turned-off/

 

 

Nope and I never used XVM, in fact if you can read beyond a threads heading, of which I have considerable doubts, you would see I mentioned I have no issue to anyone using xvm if it has a positive influence on their gameplay. To this end what I meant was that it was used more of a vague reference to glance at when engaging enemy tanks and what teammates they can expect to hold or push a flank and what teammates they should not be so reliant upon for support etc.. I still see regular suicides at the start of battles on maps which allow it btw and if the latest updates of xvm include weak points and reload times along with indications that show when you are no longer spotted along with any other such clear cut advantages then I would be annoyed.. since having a significant advantage over another unfairly is called cheating

TungstenHitman #19 Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:22 PM

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If anyone wants to play down the significance of a mod that shows weakspots or reload times or spotted status then I would ask them to take their favorite tanks with multiple skills and perks and lose em all.. get rid of 6th sense, a simple indicator that lets you know you have been spotted.. something you once played tanks without.. and were not as good without.. dare I say.. and then you tell me that knowing when a tank is reloading or not is not such a big deal. At least the skills and perks had to be ground out through lots and lots of battles therefore you earned the right to garnish your crew with them.. even if you carried crew over from one tank to another at some stage you earned these advantages but there is a notable performance difference in terms of ability and results when comparing a 100% crew with no skills and tank that has 100% crew with even just 6th sense. If knowing an enemies reload status was a perk we would all have it.. it's THAT much of an advantage, it would be 6th sense> reload status> weakspot highlighter> or thereabouts. Would I prefer no tress or grasses or any other potentially view obstructing or distracting landscape features? of course but this all detracts from the gaming experience overall so although we can ALL have these mods.. how retardproof do you want the game to be?

Edited by TungstenHitman, 31 July 2017 - 02:33 PM.


ApocalypseSquad #20 Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:52 PM

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View PostEnterprise_NCC1701A, on 31 July 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

i am one of them that suicide if MY prediction is that the mm is heavily unbalanced. It is better to let the team know that you don't want to play than wait till the end and farm maximum damage possible at their expense. I don't suicide because of the unbalanced game, it is a frustration against wg who permits similar mm. And i prefer start another one where chances of performing are better. I don't use the %win bot, I JUDGE the mm and decide if it is worthy or it isn't. Am i the bad guy here? Possible but i use only tools given and allowed (as aslain mod pack) by the game, so i do as i decide better for myself. I agree though that xvm is a prediction and about 80-85% right, NOT a gospel!

 

Not only are you the bad guy, you are a foul weasely scumsucker screwing up the game for 29 other players because of your utter selfishness und unwillingness to take on what you see might be a challenge.  With that attitude in life you are going nowhere.

 


 






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