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Was it right to do this?


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Aoishi #1 Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:35 AM

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In summary, I was facing an enemy 110 who happened to be a certian popular twitch streamer and i was getting kinda desperate not to be killed by him, then i saw a KV-13 go to face him, then i thought if we both go we might have a chance, then i realised we didn't so i put a round into him then proceeded to use our KV-13 as bait and make the 110 chase me, he ended up ignoring me in the end and i was able to shut him down, Now was this a fair move?

http://wotreplays.com/site/3739376



lafeel #2 Posted 02 August 2017 - 04:19 AM

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I was on stream when it happened. You beat him pretty fair and square all things considered.

 

I do have a question though, why HE?


Edited by lafeel, 02 August 2017 - 04:21 AM.


Aoishi #3 Posted 02 August 2017 - 04:38 AM

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View Postlafeel, on 02 August 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

I was on stream when it happened. You beat him pretty fair and square all things considered.

 

I do have a question though, why HE?

 

It's the only ammo i had, no HEAT. Besides heat against a 110's side won't do anything

Edited by Azurlte, 02 August 2017 - 04:39 AM.


lafeel #4 Posted 02 August 2017 - 04:46 AM

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View PostAzurlte, on 02 August 2017 - 03:38 AM, said:

 

It's the only ammo i had, no HEAT. Besides heat against a 110's side won't do anything

 

So you were using the derp gun? Interesting, didn't catch what gun you were using on stream which is why I asked.

 

Also, you probably saw me in the stream chat afterwards, look for the same av ;)



Aoishi #5 Posted 02 August 2017 - 04:55 AM

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View Postlafeel, on 02 August 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

 

So you were using the derp gun? Interesting, didn't catch what gun you were using on stream which is why I asked.

 

Also, you probably saw me in the stream chat afterwards, look for the same av ;)

 

KV-13 122 is the only way to KV-13, almost got 2 gun marks on it xD

 

Anyway, Was using a teammate as bait really neccecary for me?


Edited by Azurlte, 02 August 2017 - 04:59 AM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #6 Posted 02 August 2017 - 06:11 AM

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you shoved your teammate in front of an enemy gun and blocked his retreat so do you think that's fair???

NUKLEAR_SLUG #7 Posted 02 August 2017 - 06:19 AM

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OP just wants his 5 mins of fame for killing a Twitch celeb so everyone give him a little pat on the head and be thankful not everyone feels the need to spam the forum with "I killed x streamer! Notice meeeee!" threads.

PointZero #8 Posted 02 August 2017 - 06:49 AM

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View PostAzurlte, on 02 August 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

In summary, I was facing an enemy 110 who happened to be a certian popular twitch streamer and i was getting kinda desperate not to be killed by him, then i saw a KV-13 go to face him, then i thought if we both go we might have a chance, then i realised we didn't so i put a round into him then proceeded to use our KV-13 as bait and make the 110 chase me, he ended up ignoring me in the end and i was able to shut him down, Now was this a fair move?

 

There's using your teammates as a bait and then there's throwing them to the wolves. In this case you blocked the KV-13 from pulling back even though you had plenty of room to go around him to put that one derp in. At this point the other kV-13 being pushed and kept in place in front of an enemy heavy tank had no other choise to go all in hoping that he'll make it to the cover on the other side. But you were already making a run for it and propably would have ran already if the Panther hadn't appeared. Overall a douchey move.

 

TL;DR No and I think your clan made the call already



DracheimFlug #9 Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:38 AM

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View PostAzurlte, on 02 August 2017 - 04:55 AM, said:

 

KV-13 122 is the only way to KV-13, almost got 2 gun marks on it xD

 

Anyway, Was using a teammate as bait really neccecary for me?

 

 

If you deliberately blocked an allied tank's movement, that is not 'using it as bait' that is a deliberate sacrifice, and likely against game rules. Definitely not right as explained below.

 

View PostPointZero, on 02 August 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

 

There's using your teammates as a bait and then there's throwing them to the wolves. In this case you blocked the KV-13 from pulling back even though you had plenty of room to go around him to put that one derp in. At this point the other kV-13 being pushed and kept in place in front of an enemy heavy tank had no other choise to go all in hoping that he'll make it to the cover on the other side. But you were already making a run for it and propably would have ran already if the Panther hadn't appeared. Overall a douchey move.

 

TL;DR No and I think your clan made the call already

 

Edited by DracheimFlug, 02 August 2017 - 07:40 AM.


ZlatanArKung #10 Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:02 AM

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View PostAzurlte, on 02 August 2017 - 04:55 AM, said:

 

KV-13 122 is the only way to KV-13, almost got 2 gun marks on it xD

 

Anyway, Was using a teammate as bait really neccecary for me?

 

Did your opponent die: (yes)

Did your team mate survive : ?

 

If yes on second, definitely correct play.

If team mate died, there might be room for improvement  (not necessarily though) so you can get enemy kill and have your team mate alive.

 

In general, I wouldn't say using team mates as bait is wrong.

The only wrongness for me is if you don't capitalise on the bait.

Otherwise it can be seen as teamplay.

 

I didn't watch this particular situation.

Comment is a remarkable about baits in a broader sense. 


Edited by ZlatanArKung, 02 August 2017 - 08:04 AM.


250swb #11 Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:14 AM

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The conclusion was all fair and square, but you started the exchange with a total scumbag move by stopping your teammate from retreating and forcing him to go forward and get killed. Is it narcissistic to brag you killed a streamer, I don't know, but anybody who plays on the same team as you better watch their backs.

 

Edit- and yes, stopping a teammate retreating is officially against game rules.


Edited by 250swb, 02 August 2017 - 08:16 AM.


Aoishi #12 Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:58 AM

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We could have lost if i didn't make that decision

 

I felt really bad afterwards and apologised to the KV-13 and he understands why, you saw him cheering me on xD


Edited by Azurlte, 02 August 2017 - 09:04 AM.


PointZero #13 Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:32 AM

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View PostAzurlte, on 02 August 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

We could have lost if i didn't make that decision

 

Ignoring the enemy Batchat who failed to decap and focusing on the fight you had going on:

He would have been stuck with dealing with the 2 of you or having to ignore you to try and save the cap while giving 2 medium tanks free shots at his engine with no guarantee he'll ever have any shots at the people capping which isn't going to end well for him.

 

Using teammates as bait:

In the best case scenario you prepare an ambush by having someone on the enemy team overextend for an easy kill and then turn the tables on them so they become the prey instead. The guy playing the bait might also get some free dmg as the trap gets sprung.

 

The good for the team bad for the bait -scenario is where you sacrifice a low tier ally to take down an enemy top tier thus giving your team an advantage. Usually happens when someone is playing way too aggressively or drives into an awfull position thinking he has backup. Hey, at least you made sure he didn't get taken out for free.

 

In this case you simpy throw the guy under a bus. "then proceeded to use our KV-13 as bait"  Blocked a teammate to stay safe myself and then forced the guy in the open to get more safe shots.



Aoishi #14 Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:35 AM

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View PostPointZero, on 02 August 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

Ignoring the enemy Batchat who failed to decap and focusing on the fight you had going on:

He would have been stuck with dealing with the 2 of you or having to ignore you to try and save the cap while giving 2 medium tanks free shots at his engine with no guarantee he'll ever have any shots at the people capping which isn't going to end well for him.

 

Using teammates as bait:

In the best case scenario you prepare an ambush by having someone on the enemy team overextend for an easy kill and then turn the tables on them so they become the prey instead. The guy playing the bait might also get some free dmg as the trap gets sprung.

 

The good for the team bad for the bait -scenario is where you sacrifice a low tier ally to take down an enemy top tier thus giving your team an advantage. Usually happens when someone is playing way too aggressively or drives into an awfull position thinking he has backup. Hey, at least you made sure he didn't get taken out for free.

 

In this case you simpy throw the guy under a bus. "then proceeded to use our KV-13 as bait"  Blocked a teammate to stay safe myself and then forced the guy in the open to get more safe shots.

 

I saw the 110 as a major threat, thus went to every extend to get him eliminated, You saw he started to focus me because i had the HE derp gun so that's why i left. our KV-13 wasn't going to do sh*t against the 110 so i made a very bad decision


Edited by Azurlte, 02 August 2017 - 09:35 AM.


RockyRoller #15 Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:43 AM

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I'm getting the impression it was a dishonourable act and defiantly worth a complaint of un-sportsman behaviour. Blocking the retreat of a team mate is 100% against the rules, pushing them out of cover makes you a rotter, a Flashman.



250swb #16 Posted 02 August 2017 - 10:44 AM

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View PostAzurlte, on 02 August 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

We could have lost if i didn't make that decision

 

I felt really bad afterwards and apologised to the KV-13 and he understands why, you saw him cheering me on xD

 

 

I think the point is the guy you offered up as bait hadn't volunteered to be your meat shield. And in terms of tactical common sense it turns out he has a 55.72% WR, so had the battle gone only slightly differently he would have been an important asset to the team, had he been allowed to survive etc. Your move may have worked to get you a unicum kill, congratulations, but as a tactic it leaves a lot to be desired both morally and in terms of gameplay.



Sfinski #17 Posted 02 August 2017 - 10:55 AM

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Short answer: No.

imendars #18 Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:27 AM

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View PostRockyRoller, on 02 August 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

I'm getting the impression it was a dishonourable act and defiantly worth a complaint of un-sportsman behaviour. Blocking the retreat of a team mate is 100% against the rules, pushing them out of cover makes you a rotter, a Flashman.

 

Ah comon, as if you have never done that.

 

Was it you in one of past threads that completely blocked teammate cause he accidentally touched your tracks? The idea was to *teach him a lesson* as if he can stop accidents.

Or was that someone else, my memory is bit hazy...



imendars #19 Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:32 AM

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View Post250swb, on 02 August 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

 

 

I think the point is the guy you offered up as bait hadn't volunteered to be your meat shield. And in terms of tactical common sense it turns out he has a 55.72% WR, so had the battle gone only slightly differently he would have been an important asset to the team, had he been allowed to survive etc. Your move may have worked to get you a unicum kill, congratulations, but as a tactic it leaves a lot to be desired both morally and in terms of gameplay.

 

WoT and morality... OK

 

But i admit I wouldnt do that. But than i also dont punish teammates for accidents...

I would have probly tried to shoot enemy, tried to back off and shoot again when he comes for me and than died. My teammate would die case reasons stated above, unless he can somehow retreat without getting 1 shot by something else.

He did it differently... Who cares? Normally here are an army of people screaming how important it is to win. So... where are all those people?


Edited by imendars, 02 August 2017 - 11:33 AM.


DracheimFlug #20 Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:38 AM

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View Postimendars, on 02 August 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

 

WoT and morality... OK

 

But i admit I wouldnt do that. But than i also dont punish teammates for accidents...

I would have probly tried to shoot enemy, tried to back off and shoot again when he comes for me and than died. My teammate would die case reasons stated above, unless he can somehow retreat without getting 1 shot by something else.

He did it differently... Who cares? Normally here are an army of people screaming how important it is to win. So... where are all those people?

 

So cheating is fine then since it is 'just a game?' Why would concepts of morality go out the window?






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