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Accidentally hitting teammates in cap circle with autoloader


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DeinFreund #1 Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:37 PM

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I just received another battle buddy award for not hitting any teammates for 50 games. Then, two kills into my next Luchs game I was defending the cap circle and while shooting at an enemy another friendly drives in front of me. Due to the nature of the luchs autocannon I couldn't hold fire fast enough and killed both him and the enemy I was shooting at. This was followed by an immediate game ban. Of course I was never blue before.

 

 

I agree that this was a bad maneuver from my side, but am still astonished at how harsh this system punishes killing inside the cap circle. I did less than 100 damage to teammates this game with no prior teamdamage whatsoever for over 50 games (I hit another ally for 10 damage before). At the same time I've been intentionally one-shot by an O-I (340 damage) without any penalty for him. Is the system taking in account that I'm using an autoloader?

 

Here's the reward I received just previously:

 

I did get my special blue color after the ban had ended. One battle with 1k+ damage in my ELC later it's back to normal.


Edited by DeinFreund, 02 August 2017 - 04:51 PM.


mortalsatsuma #2 Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:45 PM

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It's not about how much damage you do but how many times you hit an ally. You don't even need to do damage to them, just hitting them is enough. Plus, because you hit them whilst in the cap circle, it counts double against you. I believe it takes about 3 hits to turn you blue then one more to get you banned. 

Homer_J #3 Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:49 PM

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Unlucky but this kind of thing is pretty rare and not so easy for the system to allow while still punishing players who deliberately teamkill to stop friendlies capping.

 

At least it's only an hour ban.



DeinFreund #4 Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:57 PM

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I don't mind the ban to myself much, but I hoped that maybe the devs could take into account fire rate (for autoloaders) and damage. Just imagine driving in front of a firing Pz. 1 c. He would get 10 teamhits before realizing what happened.

 



Spurtung #5 Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:58 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 02 August 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

Unlucky but this kind of thing is pretty rare and not so easy for the system to allow while still punishing players who deliberately teamkill to stop friendlies capping.

 

At least it's only an hour ban.

 

And because it's only 1h he can't appeal to support in a timely manner.

 

Either way, he could see the A-20 coming in the minimap, and I suppose this was not only Luchs' gun's fault, but also OP's eagerness to get the kill.



DeinFreund #6 Posted 02 August 2017 - 04:04 PM

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Either way, he could see the A-20 coming in the minimap, and I suppose this was not only Luchs' gun's fault, but also OP's eagerness to get the kill

 

Indeed. I even saw the A-20 coming and actually thought I'd protect him from the Hetzer durp. Quite the opposite :( Definitely need to work on my gun handling and safety.

 

If you watch closely you can see that I did hold fire before emptying the clip, but I still fired 2 salvos = 4 projectiles into my ally.


Edited by DeinFreund, 02 August 2017 - 04:15 PM.


heimdalh #7 Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:05 PM

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Well, why did you shoot if he was driving and you could see that he was not going to stop? 

BonjiOrongji #8 Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:41 PM

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a well deserved ban/warning for you ... you could see that he is driving infront of you but you got greedy and shot anyway

DracheimFlug #9 Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:43 PM

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This is why I don't use the autoloader on the M5 Stuart. It is a lot harder to control a stream of 5 shots than one at a time.

jabster #10 Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:24 PM

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View PostDeinFreund, on 02 August 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

I don't mind the ban to myself much, but I hoped that maybe the devs could take into account fire rate (for autoloaders) and damage. Just imagine driving in front of a firing Pz. 1 c. He would get 10 teamhits before realizing what happened.

 

 

I'm not sure exactly how it works but the Pz IC is treated differently and I assume that each burst counts as one shot and not multiple ones. You still hit a lot of other tanks mind you as my lack of Battle Buddies medals show.

Balc0ra #11 Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:29 PM

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View PostDeinFreund, on 02 August 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

I don't mind the ban to myself much, but I hoped that maybe the devs could take into account fire rate (for autoloaders) and damage. Just imagine driving in front of a firing Pz. 1 c. He would get 10 teamhits before realizing what happened.

 

 

I've been blue three times. Once in Pz 1c, and two times in my Luchs. All 3 times a friendly drives in front of my gun as I'm firing in sniper mode. And there is nothing I can do but aim up. As the burst damage is still going, even tho I'm not pressing it. Then again this video shows why I normally don't fire that gun on the move when a friendly is that close.

 

And in this case, it was a mix of both him being in the cap, and you firing. And you turned blue more or less instantly if you watch the video carefully. But you hit him more then 2 times still. First hit hit the tracks by the looks of it, second right in the turret and you turned blue, and then you killed him... and since you were blue, you got banned.

 

I get what you are saying. As the damage pr shell is less, or the same in one burst as the AP of the target you killed. But if they were more nice to clip guns in these cases. People would just exploit it more to troll etc. As then auto guns to reset cap for "no cap, kill all" more easily and get away with it.



Gangerr #12 Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:36 PM

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That's just bad luck.  Last week I killed two allies in a short space of time by mistake and got turned blue, even though I not damage allies for a long time.  Sometimes the system can be harsh.

Rataplan #13 Posted 02 August 2017 - 10:44 PM

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Bad luck (and a little bit your own fault/mistake)

 

Don't worry too much about it, as you said you already turned normal again and hopefully will stay like that after this learning experience.

 

For what it is worth: Du bisst immer noch mein Freund :)



DeinFreund #14 Posted 02 August 2017 - 10:50 PM

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 Well, why did you shoot if he was driving and you could see that he was not going to stop? 

 

I often play the Luchs as a close quarters support where I peek out at occupied enemies and unload my clip before they can turn their turrets. Thus there are always allies nearby (the ones the enemies were occupied with). Even though this isn't the safest play style, I can avoid team damage most of the time. After all this is a game where one isn't always paying perfect attention. Are you expecting me to never ever make such an error? The system gave me a whole 0.14 seconds of forewarning to realize my mistake. 

 

I tried to hold my fire as soon as I realized what the a-20 was doing, but as @Balc0ra said it is near impossible to stop in time. Once I came around the corner I was already committed to emptying my clip into the hetzer.

 

Block Quote

 Du bisst immer noch mein Freund :)

 Thanks, now I can sleep again. I hope the a-20 accepted my apology.

 

Block Quote

 I get what you are saying. As the damage pr shell is less, or the same in one burst as the AP of the target you killed. But if they were more nice to clip guns in these cases. People would just exploit it more to troll etc. As then auto guns to reset cap for "no cap, kill all" more easily and get away with it.

 What I'd suggest is simply combining multiple shots in fast succession into a single shot. In this case shooting him 5 times in 0.5 seconds would be the same as shooting him once for 5 times the damage. If you space your shots by larger time intervals they'd still count as multiple hits. Also note that the cap was at less than 1 percent when I reset it.

 

 

After all it's important to me to always be friendly to my fellow players, even the griefers. Thus such a ban is pretty disturbing to me.

 


Edited by DeinFreund, 02 August 2017 - 11:09 PM.


TungstenHitman #15 Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:55 PM

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Same happened me ages ago and with a Leopard or some German machine gun tank. If you're not aware of the possibility before it happens it will definitively catch most players out at least once in their WoT endevours. As mentioned, the problem is that the team shooting and banning system also works on a consecutive shots on a friendly so when you take a really rapid firing machine gun like many of the lower tier tanks, which is like a hyper autoloader, it doesn't leave much or any margin for error. For me this is something WG need to address and sooner rather than latter because ironically it's the more experienced and knowledgeable players that would know this will happen and more likely to see it about to happen and avoid it yet this is on low tier tanks where inexperienced and unknowing players simply won't see the potential harm coupled with the autoaim nature of both tier, tank and weapon along with the fact many other inexperienced and over exuberant teammates at those low tiers often race across line of fire and crash into enemy tanks.. so.. this happening is kinda inevitable so getting banned for WG devs shortsightedness is really unfair

 

Edit- I think there's also an addition team shooting penalty for shooting teammates in a cap circle like you did so that would obviously just get you kicked even faster still.. the idea behind that was to stop teammates shooting cappers and resetting the cap clock which used to happen a lot


Edited by TungstenHitman, 03 August 2017 - 12:03 AM.


TungstenHitman #16 Posted 03 August 2017 - 12:07 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 02 August 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

 

Either way, he could see the A-20 coming in the minimap, and I suppose this was not only Luchs' gun's fault, but also OP's eagerness to get the kill.

 

 

Are you for real? The OP only has 2.5k battles under his belt of course he's gonna be eager and full of silly mistakes.. damn... what you want unicum levels of self restraint, awareness and experience from a low tier noob? They just want to race around blowing up tanks lol! They're not going to know what the f*** they're doing most the time, go easy on the guy



Spurtung #17 Posted 03 August 2017 - 06:35 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 03 August 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

 

 

Are you for real? The OP only has 2.5k battles under his belt of course he's gonna be eager and full of silly mistakes.. damn... what you want unicum levels of self restraint, awareness and experience from a low tier noob? They just want to race around blowing up tanks lol! They're not going to know what the f*** they're doing most the time, go easy on the guy

 

Right...what about you read his reply after my post and chill? He admits to have seen the A-20 coming and really doesn't talk like the noob you make him to be.

Baldrickk #18 Posted 03 August 2017 - 07:09 AM

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Yep. As OP says, he was at fault here.

Coming from the far side of the Hetzer*, (and OP says that he saw him coming on the map) the video clip shows that the A-20 was actually visible going into a circle around the td for quite a while.

When attaching low hp enemies, it's often a good idea to get into the habit of 'tapping off' your shots in the Luchs, firing each burst separately to do the appropriate amount of damage.
This makes it easier to kill multiple targets with the same clip (intentionally), allows you to hit more often at mid-range and would have prevented the ban in this case.

OP is aware of his mistake, and will, I'm sure try nor to make it again.

*if the A-20 had come from behind him and run in front, it would be a completely different story.

 

Also: +1 like to OP for documenting what happened with video/replay.  It really makes a difference.


Edited by Baldrickk, 03 August 2017 - 07:12 AM.


DracheimFlug #19 Posted 03 August 2017 - 08:15 AM

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View Postjabster, on 02 August 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

 

I'm not sure exactly how it works but the Pz IC is treated differently and I assume that each burst counts as one shot and not multiple ones. You still hit a lot of other tanks mind you as my lack of Battle Buddies medals show.

 

That is definitely not true with the Stuart.

 

As for battle buddies, I have more than twice as many as you over less than half as many matches. This could relate to my being less effective in combat (I am a lot less aggressive around allies, both driving and shooting).



STLR #20 Posted 03 August 2017 - 08:30 AM

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View PostDeinFreund, on 02 August 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

I just received another battle buddy award for not hitting any teammates for 50 games. Then, two kills into my next Luchs game I was defending the cap circle and while shooting at an enemy another friendly drives in front of me. Due to the nature of the luchs autocannon I couldn't hold fire fast enough and killed both him and the enemy I was shooting at. This was followed by an immediate game ban. Of course I was never blue before.

 

 

I agree that this was a bad maneuver from my side, but am still astonished at how harsh this system punishes killing inside the cap circle. I did less than 100 damage to teammates this game with no prior teamdamage whatsoever for over 50 games (I hit another ally for 10 damage before). At the same time I've been intentionally one-shot by an O-I (340 damage) without any penalty for him. Is the system taking in account that I'm using an autoloader?

 

Here's the reward I received just previously:

 

I did get my special blue color after the ban had ended. One battle with 1k+ damage in my ELC later it's back to normal.

 

hahahah




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