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The mystery of the VK1001P cupola


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Tr0gledyte #1 Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:36 PM

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So according to tanks.gg this thing has around 220mm effective armor in the center. Sounds easy to pen, but for some reason it bounces almost everything I throw at it! Even 270 APCR shells from my E-50M just don't go through reliably, the only thing that works well is the 330mm HEAT ammo from my T-54. If I'm driving a tier 8 tank I'm SOL.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same? That cupola is supposed to be its weakspot and even on tanks.gg it looks weak but in-game it seems to be much stronger than on paper. The penetration indicator, which I believe takes into account effective armor nowadays, is always orange on the entire cupola even with 270mm pen shells. It turns green when I load 330mm HEAT. Could it be a mistake and that they accidentally made the cupola stronger than it should be like with the E5?


Edited by Tr0gledyte, 06 August 2017 - 01:38 PM.


lord_chipmonk #2 Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:39 PM

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View PostTr0gledyte, on 06 August 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

So according to tanks.gg this thing has around 220mm effective armor in the center. Sounds easy to pen, but for some reason it bounces almost everything I throw at it! Even 270 APCR shells from my E-50M just don't go through reliably, the only thing that works well is the 330mm HEAT ammo from my T-54. If I'm driving a tier 8 tank I'm SOL.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same? That cupola is supposed to be its weakspot and even on tanks.gg it looks weak but in-game it seems to be much stronger than on paper.

 

Yeah, its troll as hell. 

SABAOTH #3 Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:45 PM

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I find more reliable to shoot the cheeks than the cupola. Is rather trollish.

lord_chipmonk #4 Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:50 PM

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View PostTr0gledyte, on 06 August 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

So according to tanks.gg this thing has around 220mm effective armor in the center. Sounds easy to pen, but for some reason it bounces almost everything I throw at it! Even 270 APCR shells from my E-50M just don't go through reliably, the only thing that works well is the 330mm HEAT ammo from my T-54. If I'm driving a tier 8 tank I'm SOL.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same? That cupola is supposed to be its weakspot and even on tanks.gg it looks weak but in-game it seems to be much stronger than on paper.

 

Yeah, its troll as hell. 

Igor_BL #5 Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:51 PM

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It is just too strong... Esp for "weakspot".
That tank is rather OP in tier8 games. The lucky side, it gets majority of tier10 games, so it is mostly hp pinata.

XKeyscore #6 Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:53 PM

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View PostTr0gledyte, on 06 August 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

Even 270 APCR shells from my E-50M just don't go through reliably, the only thing that works well is the 330mm HEAT ammo from my T-54. If I'm driving a tier 8 tank I'm SOL.

 

The penetration indicator, which I believe takes into account effective armor nowadays, is always orange on the entire cupola even with 270mm pen shells. It turns green when I load 330mm HEAT.

 

Than you have learned your lesson. Never shoot superheavys with non-premium ammo and you are fine...



Balc0ra #7 Posted 06 August 2017 - 02:02 PM

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Key word here is "center". If your shell goes a little to the side on that cupola. 270mm pen is not gonna do nothing. And you gotta remember that 270mm on a lowest roll... Gives it 202mm pen. That and the lower you are vs it, the more effective it will be. So for most HT's it can be has high as 240 due to the impact angle. So for most, lower plate might give them a higher "chance". 

Edited by Balc0ra, 06 August 2017 - 02:03 PM.


Browarszky #8 Posted 06 August 2017 - 02:15 PM

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One of Agatha Christie's best stories. :P

 

I have only tried to shoot at the cupola from the side, IIRC. Frontally, I am always more tempted to shoot at the LFP (if possible) or the shot trap (EDIT: unless I manage to do a quick tactical retrograde).


Edited by Browarszky, 06 August 2017 - 02:16 PM.


Search_Warrant #9 Posted 06 August 2017 - 05:13 PM

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Thats what happens when you give a tier 8 heavy a "weak spot" that tier 8 mediums with gold cant even pen reliably. VK100p has a better armor profile than Type 4 heavy. VK100P is overpowered and should be nerfed, Wot-News even states its as overpowered (if not more) than the DEFENDER!

GekkoGordon #10 Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:04 PM

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View PostIgor_BL, on 06 August 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

It is just too strong... Esp for "weakspot".
That tank is rather OP in tier8 games. The lucky side, it gets majority of tier10 games, so it is mostly hp pinata.

 

wouldn't call it a hp pinata, i have 72% WR after 80ish battles in the new MM

Browarszky #11 Posted 06 August 2017 - 07:56 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 06 August 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

Thats what happens when you give a tier 8 heavy a "weak spot" that tier 8 mediums with gold cant even pen reliably. VK100p has a better armor profile than Type 4 heavy. VK100P is overpowered and should be nerfed, Wot-News even states its as overpowered (if not more) than the DEFENDER!

 

If so, perhaps it could be made into a new tier 8 premium as they don't seem to be selling the Defender any time soon...

Jigabachi #12 Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:07 PM

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Never even penned it once with my tVIII or tIX tanks. That whole tank is OP as hell, like all the other new superheavy tanks.

Plasma_Fire #13 Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:10 PM

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Try not allowing the play who is playing it to out play you and shoot its rear armour.

Browarszky #14 Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:18 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 06 August 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

Never even penned it once with my tVIII or tIX tanks. That whole tank is OP as hell, like all the other new superheavy tanks.

 

Then you need to get the brightest star in WoT's constellation, the IS-6!

 

View PostPlasma_Fire, on 06 August 2017 - 07:10 PM, said:

Try not allowing the play who is playing it to out play you and shoot its rear armour.

 

You mean like.. flank?

CaptainThunderWalker #15 Posted 06 August 2017 - 11:11 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 06 August 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

Never even penned it once with my tVIII or tIX tanks. That whole tank is OP as hell, like all the other new superheavy tanks.

 

I struggle to believe that.

 

Sure a well-played VK is OP but so many idiots give you its lower plate (which I penned with my Strv 74's gold ammo or my Jagdpanther's standard ammo a few times, let alone Tier VIII tanks), it's slow and lumbering (so mediums and light tanks often get its sides and put some shots into it) and there are things with howitzers that have fun with it as well.

Or just focusing them with artillery also tends to help the team - in that regard I like to focus down heavy armor in my G.W Panther just for this purpose.

 

Sure it's still very strong in the hands of even a total donkey, but to say that you have never penetrated one with Tier VIII or IX tanks is probably a lie unless you rarely play those tiers (since the VK isn't that common in matches).



Jigabachi #16 Posted 06 August 2017 - 11:30 PM

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View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 06 August 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Sure a well-played VK is OP but so many idiots

That's not how the term "OP" works. And this thread is about the cupola. And I NEVER managed to penetrate that one yet.



CaptainThunderWalker #17 Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:20 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 06 August 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:

That's not how the term "OP" works. And this thread is about the cupola. And I NEVER managed to penetrate that one yet.

 

Thus, don't shoot the cupola?! It's not a weakspot! I know that thing is 240 effective, so I only shoot it in the T-28 Prototype if I don't have access to the lower plate and even then I prefer the turrent front or an overangled turret side. That is surprisingly easy to go through.

 

Agreed with that this is not how OP works, but I feel that part of the reason why tanks feel OP is just a "learn to play" issue. Many tanks are also OP in the hands of noobs because they are so easy to play, but an experienced player does not like them for their lack of influence in the late-game.

 



brumbarr #18 Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:35 AM

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View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 07 August 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

 

Thus, don't shoot the cupola?! It's not a weakspot! I know that thing is 240 effective, so I only shoot it in the T-28 Prototype if I don't have access to the lower plate and even then I prefer the turrent front or an overangled turret side. That is surprisingly easy to go through.

 

Agreed with that this is not how OP works, but I feel that part of the reason why tanks feel OP is just a "learn to play" issue. Many tanks are also OP in the hands of noobs because they are so easy to play, but an experienced player does not like them for their lack of influence in the late-game.

 

Its just stupid that it isnt a weakspot. If you dont want to give the tank a weakspot, than just remove it from the model ffs....



Timewarp76 #19 Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:26 AM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 06 August 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

I find more reliable to shoot the cheeks than the cupola. Is rather trollish.

 

Same for me!

OneSock #20 Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:41 AM

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it's quite a tall tank though isn't it so for most other tanks etc, you will be shooting upwards thus giving it a bit more effective thickness. No ?




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