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IS-4 needs a buff.

IS-4 IS-7 BUFF 9.20

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XM551_Sheridan #1 Posted 07 August 2017 - 04:33 PM

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Now that the IS-7 is getting a buff in 9.20 i only think it's fair for the IS4 to get a buff too. It's good but not great, unlike the very good IS-7 with an unpen-able turret and fast speed.

 



lord_chipmonk #2 Posted 07 August 2017 - 04:35 PM

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View PostXM551_Sheridan, on 07 August 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

Now that the IS-7 is getting a buff in 9.20 i only think it's fair for the IS4 to get a buff too. It's good but not great, unlike the very good IS-7 with an unpen-able turret and fast speed.

 

If it is "good", why would it need a buff?

brumbarr #3 Posted 07 August 2017 - 04:38 PM

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They are looking into or already busy on reworking the is4 line, they said something of switching the STI and IS4 and maybe introducing a double barreled STI. So dont worry.

MrEdweird #4 Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:25 PM

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Yeah, it's a pretty unremarkable tank and this has been so ever since it hit tier X, but I guess it was good enough for them to not change it.

IS-7 has been in need of a change for far longer.



japtank #5 Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:13 PM

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Don't hold your breath.

I tested the IS-7 on test (albeit not extensively, just a couple of games) and the changes are very subtle to say the least.

Shells still go wherever they want to and armor is like it has always been: not remarquable if you're not hulldown.

Maybe I'm biased because I can't stand that gun though, it feels like a watercan to me.



1ucky #6 Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:22 AM

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View Postlord_chipmonk, on 07 August 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

 

If it is "good", why would it need a buff?

So they can nerf it later.



imendars #7 Posted 08 August 2017 - 10:24 AM

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WG promissed to buff IS-4. Not in 9.20 patch, but soonTM  

There will come a buff. They had ideas to replace this tank with something else and put IS-4 in tier 9. I dont think they have decided on this one yet...



Cobra6 #8 Posted 08 August 2017 - 01:45 PM

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The only buff the IS-4 needs is a gun handling buff because the gun is atrocious on it, certainly for a 122mm gun. It needs better dispersion values and a decrease in aimtime.

 

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commer #9 Posted 08 August 2017 - 01:56 PM

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View Postjaptank, on 07 August 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

Don't hold your breath.

I tested the IS-7 on test (albeit not extensively, just a couple of games) and the changes are very subtle to say the least.

Shells still go wherever they want to and armor is like it has always been: not remarquable if you're not hulldown.

Maybe I'm biased because I can't stand that gun though, it feels like a watercan to me.

 

Subtle? The gun handling now (bloom values) are VERY good plus it gets more hp and is faster. Bloom wise now is7 is better than t110e5 in all areas (turret, track and moving)

Asghaad #10 Posted 08 August 2017 - 02:17 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 08 August 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

The only buff the IS-4 needs is a gun handling buff because the gun is atrocious on it, certainly for a 122mm gun. It needs better dispersion values and a decrease in aimtime.

 

Cobra 6

 

its supposed to be most heavily armored USSR tank not some sniper or snapshotting brawler

 

what IS4 needs is removal of overmatch zones  which would be simply achieved by buffing upper hull armor a bit and then slapping ST-I turret on it. Still would have turret weakspot, still would be gold pennable when angling but it would finally be preoper heavy that rewards good angling with frontal armor that Japs get just by existing ...



commer #11 Posted 08 August 2017 - 02:50 PM

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View PostAsghaad, on 08 August 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

 

its supposed to be most heavily armored USSR tank not some sniper or snapshotting brawler

 

what IS4 needs is removal of overmatch zones  which would be simply achieved by buffing upper hull armor a bit and then slapping ST-I turret on it. Still would have turret weakspot, still would be gold pennable when angling but it would finally be preoper heavy that rewards good angling with frontal armor that Japs get just by existing ...

 

It doesn't havee to be snapshoting monster but it has low alpha, low dpm and a potato gun. It has basically no firepower. Probably the worst gun in t10

Cobra6 #12 Posted 08 August 2017 - 04:49 PM

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View PostAsghaad, on 08 August 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

 

its supposed to be most heavily armored USSR tank not some sniper or snapshotting brawler

 

what IS4 needs is removal of overmatch zones  which would be simply achieved by buffing upper hull armor a bit and then slapping ST-I turret on it. Still would have turret weakspot, still would be gold pennable when angling but it would finally be preoper heavy that rewards good angling with frontal armor that Japs get just by existing ...

 

That is the *FUNCTION* of that armour, so that it can brawl. But it can't brawl if it's potato gun won't hit a static target 50m away.

 

It doesn't have to be E50M levels of accuracy, no one is asking for that but it needs to reliably hit at close ranges which it doesn't.

A (comparatively) low alpha gun needs to gun handling to make up for the lack of alpha strike.

 

This is also one of the major issues with the new Pudel tank, it has a puny gun *AND* it can't snapshot with it *AND* it can't snipe, so it's pretty useless.

 

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Asghaad #13 Posted 09 August 2017 - 08:15 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 08 August 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

 

That is the *FUNCTION* of that armour, so that it can brawl. But it can't brawl if it's potato gun won't hit a static target 50m away.

 

It doesn't have to be E50M levels of accuracy, no one is asking for that but it needs to reliably hit at close ranges which it doesn't.

A (comparatively) low alpha gun needs to gun handling to make up for the lack of alpha strike.

 

This is also one of the major issues with the new Pudel tank, it has a puny gun *AND* it can't snapshot with it *AND* it can't snipe, so it's pretty useless.

 

Cobra 6

 

uhh you cannot brawl in tank that has to angle for that armor to be effective and loses the armor the closer you get to it ...

 

brawlers are tanks that are mobile(ish) have easy to use armor layout and either bigger alpha or higher DPM than the competition. IS4 has NONE  of those aspects but what it excels at is holding chokes and being static bunker... you are supposed to angle that armor, stay STILL and AIM not drive forward blasting on the move like IS3, you are looking at the wrong line for that playstyle ...



DSM_28 #14 Posted 09 August 2017 - 08:37 PM

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They said they'll rework entire IS-4 line, i think in the same time with British Heavies..... That because simple rebalance is not enough.... they have to work more... they said they'll make more difference between lines.. so a lot of armor buffs

Kartoshkaya #15 Posted 09 August 2017 - 10:13 PM

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Can we get a couple of Javelin missiles on it wich will target unspotted arties in the begining of the game ? Thanks.

kripton69 #16 Posted 09 August 2017 - 10:34 PM

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View PostAsghaad, on 09 August 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

 

uhh you cannot brawl in tank that has to angle for that armor to be effective and loses the armor the closer you get to it ...

 

brawlers are tanks that are mobile(ish) have easy to use armor layout and either bigger alpha or higher DPM than the competition. IS4 has NONE  of those aspects but what it excels at is holding chokes and being static bunker... you are supposed to angle that armor, stay STILL and AIM not drive forward blasting on the move like IS3, you are looking at the wrong line for that playstyle ...

 

I see. So Maus and Type 5 aren't brawlers at all? I think it's a pretty interesting statement to make that brawlers have to be mobile. Typically having tons of steel to carry and big gun on top are characteristics that slow a tank down. Maybe it's just me but when I am looking for a brawler those are the characteristics I am looking for. Some brawler tanks happen to have workable mobility but it's definitely not the highlight of such tanks. 


A good brawler tank typically has strong armor but the armor definitely doesn't have to be "easy to use". In many cases the "easy to use" kind of armor like the pike nose of IS-7 becomes a major downside for a good player who knows how to angle his armor and bait hopeless shots from the enemy.

 

Brawlers also typically have a fairly hard hitting gun and above average soft stats, while often lacking in the accuracy/aiming time department. IS-4's 440 alpha is "above average" if you compare it to mediums but 440 is still a pretty sorry blow at tier 10 for a slow heavy with lackluster DPM that fails to connect snap shots. For reference the tier 7 Russian heavies have 390 alpha. While the health pools have grown a ton from tier 7, the alpha has only gone up by 50 and it just won't anymore. The way to promote a brawling playing style is nerfing the base accuracy and aiming time while increasing the stabilization. This means the gun generally hits where you point it within close range, even when you're moving, but suffers in long distance shots.

 

IS-4 isn't bad at holding a corner but humping a corner isn't a way to win games. Being good at hide-and-seek isn't what you want from a slow heavy tank. Even when the IS-4 is sidescraping its armor is quite vulnerable to gold rounds and because it has a terrible gun it's not even good at trading shots. It gets even worse when the IS-4 realizes that humping the corner and taking 1 shot per minute as a top tier heavy isn't going to win him the game and he decides to move. The tank is slow, it has a bad gun and while the armor is fairly good you can find tanks with better armor that can also damage the enemies. IS-4 is just easy pray and doesn't have any kind of fear factor. Sure, IS-4 is good hulldown but why not just play ST-I if that's the case? ST-I gets worse gun handling but the additional 2 degrees of gun depression and being a tier lower makes it so much better at hulldown.


IS-4 is just a fail Maus, or alternatively the retarded big brother of ST-I. There's no point in playing it. Whatever you want to do with it, there's a tank that's better. Being exclusively a useless corner bunker is pointless when you can just play a tank that can play that role as well as contribute in a more active role.

 

For IS-4 to be competitive it absolutely needs a big stabilization buff. That's the minimum requirement. Because the gun has no alpha it needs to hit without aiming for 5 seconds and it should also get a competitive reload. It'd still be far off behind genuinely good guns but at least the tank wouldn't cause the blood vessels of its driver to explode anymore.


Edited by kripton69, 09 August 2017 - 10:43 PM.


japtank #17 Posted 09 August 2017 - 10:49 PM

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View Postcommer, on 08 August 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

 

Bloom wise now is7 is better than t110e5 in all areas (turret, track and moving)

 

Accuracy 0.4

Aiming 2.9

Garbage compared to the E5.

 

Just played a few games on test with IS-7, IS-4 and E5.

IS-4 remains better than IS-7 if not for mobility.

E5 remains better than soviet tanks gun wise, by leaps and bounds.

 

At least that's my impression.



kripton69 #18 Posted 09 August 2017 - 10:55 PM

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View Postjaptank, on 09 August 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

 

Accuracy 0.4

Aiming 2.9

Garbage compared to the E5.

 

Just played a few games on test with IS-7, IS-4 and E5.

IS-4 remains better than IS-7 if not for mobility.

E5 remains better than soviet tanks gun wise, by leaps and bounds.

 

At least that's my impression.

 

None of those characteristics are related to bloom. Bloom refers to the stabilization of your gun which means how large "penalty" your aiming circle gets when you move, traverse or rotate your turret. Accuracy and aiming time are low priority stats for tanks that ideally seek to fight in the close range. Brawls are all about taking quick shots that hit a fair % of the time(it's perfectly fine to miss shots) while you minimize the chance that you receive any damage. IS-4 is bad at this because its stabilization is bad. Simply put it needs too much setting up to be effective.

 

IS-4 is far worse than the upcoming IS-7, and it's quite noticeably weaker than the current E5. After the patch IS-7 will unquestionably be better than E5.


Edited by kripton69, 09 August 2017 - 10:57 PM.


Cobra6 #19 Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:00 PM

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View PostAsghaad, on 09 August 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

 

uhh you cannot brawl in tank that has to angle for that armor to be effective and loses the armor the closer you get to it ...

 

brawlers are tanks that are mobile(ish) have easy to use armor layout and either bigger alpha or higher DPM than the competition. IS4 has NONE  of those aspects but what it excels at is holding chokes and being static bunker... you are supposed to angle that armor, stay STILL and AIM not drive forward blasting on the move like IS3, you are looking at the wrong line for that playstyle ...

 

Uhm, yes you can. You just have to angle it correctly though.

 

If you can get it to run, here is a nice replay of me playing the IS-4 and bouncing 5.3K damage from point blank range

Basic rule is angle, then angle so much you think you are over-angling and then hold it like that. You are not over-angling, that is just how you are supposed to angle, 45 degrees pretty much just like the KV-4.

 

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Edited by Cobra6, 10 August 2017 - 02:17 PM.


Browarszky #20 Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:45 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 10 August 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

 

Uhm, yes you can. You just have to angle it correctly though.

 

If you can get it to run, here is a nice replay of me playing the IS-4 and bouncing 5.3K damage from point blank range

Basic rule is angle, then angle so much you think you are over-angling and then hold it like that. You are not over-angling, that is just how you are supposed to angle, 45 degrees pretty much just like the KV-4.

 

Cobra 6

 

Even assuming you can figure out the ideal angle (like I been trying to do with my IS-6), how do you manage it against multiple enemy tanks shooting at you from several directions?




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