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So bypassing the automated TK system is fine and alright?


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tajj7 #61 Posted 09 August 2017 - 10:32 AM

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Hopefully they will just turn team damage off, I don't see any good reason why it's in the game in the first place. The vast majority of FPS's don;t have it for a good reason it causes too much grief and annoyance for the players because a-holes will be a-holes and will abuse whatever system you have in place.

 

The current system is broken and protects no one, you can get shot in a light tank by a TD that takes 90% of your HP and ruins your game, but they get zero punishment for it because it was only 'one' shot. Arty players have been abusing that for years taking stupid shots that damage teammates and getting away with it.

 

Just get rid of it. 



SaintMaddenus #62 Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:20 AM

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Getting rid of team damage shouldn't really matter, this is an arcade style tank game not a tank sim. There are lots of things in the game that are in it that are not important.   Just drop the team damage

 



BP_OMowe #63 Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:33 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 09 August 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

Hopefully they will just turn team damage off, I don't see any good reason why it's in the game in the first place. The vast majority of FPS's don;t have it for a good reason it causes too much grief and annoyance for the players because a-holes will be a-holes and will abuse whatever system you have in place.

 

The current system is broken and protects no one, you can get shot in a light tank by a TD that takes 90% of your HP and ruins your game, but they get zero punishment for it because it was only 'one' shot. Arty players have been abusing that for years taking stupid shots that damage teammates and getting away with it.

 

Just get rid of it. 

 

Utter BS, most FPS-games do indeed have FF on, and that for a good reason. Gameplay change very much between FF on, off and reflective.

The problem is that Wargaming decided to implement an automated system, and then remove all possibilities for the support to handle things manually, just like WG did with the cheating.



Homer_J #64 Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:52 PM

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View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 08 August 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

 

I was opposed to it until last week, but then I realized how much teamdamage actually occurs.

 

How much?



Chopchopchop #65 Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:59 AM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 09 August 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

 

Utter BS, most FPS-games do indeed have FF on, and that for a good reason. Gameplay change very much between FF on, off and reflective.

The problem is that Wargaming decided to implement an automated system, and then remove all possibilities for the support to handle things manually, just like WG did with the cheating.

 

That is how they hide, because they can say "There is nothing we can do about it." ...Its the system... 

CaptainThunderWalker #66 Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:35 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 09 August 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

 

How much?

 

Too much. Like I said, I have been in a Tier VIII-X battle in which my team did 3k damage to itself before first contact with the enemy. I think I witness someone losing his temper and shooting at a teammate every 4-5 battles at least, and I really don't see the entire battle. Just as much at high tiers as at low tiers.

 

However, even making teamdamage impossible doesn't stop people from shoving teammates into the water, which they probably still do...



ramram70 #67 Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:55 AM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 07 August 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

 

Anyhow, WG is considering to disable team damage in randoms.

 

Great news! I have a mod which prevents me from shooting an ally. I take it disabling team dmg will work the same way? What happens if you try to ram-dmg an ally? An invisible wall?


Edited by ramram70, 10 August 2017 - 07:55 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #68 Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:25 AM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 09 August 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

 

Utter BS, most FPS-games do indeed have FF on, and that for a good reason. Gameplay change very much between FF on, off and reflective.

The problem is that Wargaming decided to implement an automated system, and then remove all possibilities for the support to handle things manually, just like WG did with the cheating.

 

Really. And how many of those FPS games don't use automated systems to detect and ban cheaters or have a dedicated support team on hand to deal with your problems? When a game gets beyond a certain size it's just not physically practical to have a manual support team to sift through the thousands of whiny [edited]tickets they get every day to deal with players actual problems without an automated system to filter out the 95% of the crap which is just some player bleating that they got shot by a guy they couldn't see because they're too stupid to learn game mechanics.

tajj7 #69 Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:03 PM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 09 August 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

 

Utter BS, most FPS-games do indeed have FF on, and that for a good reason. Gameplay change very much between FF on, off and reflective.

The problem is that Wargaming decided to implement an automated system, and then remove all possibilities for the support to handle things manually, just like WG did with the cheating.

 

Utter BS yourself.

 

Battlefield doesn't, COD doesn't, Overwatch doesn't and CS:GO doesn't in many game modes.   Those are pretty much the biggest and most popular multiplayer FPS's in the business right now. (along with PUBG which is a free for all)

 

Why?

 

Because it adds very little to the game and just enables people to be douchebags. You cannot expect support to deal with every team killing episode that is retarded, there are like 800k active players on the EU server, they'd need 1000s upon 1000s of support staff. 



Kozzy #70 Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:28 PM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 09 August 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

 

Utter BS, most FPS-games do indeed have FF on, and that for a good reason. Gameplay change very much between FF on, off and reflective.

The problem is that Wargaming decided to implement an automated system, and then remove all possibilities for the support to handle things manually, just like WG did with the cheating.

 

I'm pretty sure more team based FPS games have team-damage turned off than have it turned on (as listed above and you can included the Half Life/Quake based games, TF2, Unreal etc).  Can you describe the changes in play style between FF on/off and reflective?  Also, what are the main advantages to having FF on in WoT?

HassenderZerhacker #71 Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:29 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 07 August 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

Huh? That's old news. REALLY old.

Try your luck with the support and mention that this is NOT covered by the automated system. If I remember correctly, there was a case before christmas where it worked.

 

I reported someone about a month ago because I suspected he was using an aimbot (my first report ever for that - the hits were just a bit too lucky) and I got the official reply that WG does not even look into these reports.

WG does not care.



jabster #72 Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:34 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 10 August 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

 

I reported someone about a month ago because I suspected he was using an aimbot (my first report ever for that - the hits were just a bit too lucky) and I got the official reply that WG does not even look into these reports.

WG does not care.

 

So how do you tell the difference between a lucky shot and an aimbot.



BP_OMowe #73 Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:13 PM

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View PostChopchopchop, on 10 August 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

That is how they hide, because they can say "There is nothing we can do about it." ...Its the system... 

Sadly, it is not just the support trying to shrimp from work, it is the official policy which Ageing Jedi made a rant about:
 

Spoiler

 

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 10 August 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

Really. And how many of those FPS games don't use automated systems to detect and ban cheaters or have a dedicated support team on hand to deal with your problems? When a game gets beyond a certain size it's just not physically practical to have a manual support team to sift through the thousands of whiny [edited]tickets they get every day to deal with players actual problems without an automated system to filter out the 95% of the crap which is just some player bleating that they got shot by a guy they couldn't see because they're too stupid to learn game mechanics.

View Posttajj7, on 10 August 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Utter BS yourself.

Battlefield doesn't, COD doesn't, Overwatch doesn't and CS:GO doesn't in many game modes.   Those are pretty much the biggest and most popular multiplayer FPS's in the business right now. (along with PUBG which is a free for all)

Why?

Because it adds very little to the game and just enables people to be douchebags. You cannot expect support to deal with every team killing episode that is retarded, there are like 800k active players on the EU server, they'd need 1000s upon 1000s of support staff.

View PostKozzy, on 10 August 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure more team based FPS games have team-damage turned off than have it turned on (as listed above and you can included the Half Life/Quake based games, TF2, Unreal etc).  Can you describe the changes in play style between FF on/off and reflective?  Also, what are the main advantages to having FF on in WoT?

 

FF off leads to far less careful playstyle, giving a lot higher reward to twitch reflexes and eye-hand coordination. You also see "abuse" of the lack of team-damage, with players stacking up to block the enemy movement to keep them in the danger zone of area effect weapons.

Of course, intentional blocking and pushing of team-mates raise, as there is no way to retaliate directly. The last point has more to do with the the quality of the support though, as the griefing is about the same regardless of the FF setting, it's just a matter on how it manifests.

This is also an overlooked aspect of moderation, the slacker the monitoring is, the more work there will be to get it back on track.

If WG made a concerted effort, well announced beforehand, to deal with team-killers, the rate of team-killing would plummet quite fast together with the workload. Having automated systems is all fine and dandy, as it should be able to handle the bulk of the routine work. Problem stems from the dubious decision to have a very imperfect automated system replace all human input (which the FPP also suffers from as per the video above).

Common opinion is that it is utterly unable to classify intent, making high damage guns the preferred tool for deliberate team-killing as the "fast trigger" of the system is the number of hits, regardless of damage.



ZlatanArKung #74 Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:54 PM

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I think biggest problem with TK is that WG doesn't care about getting rid of it.

1 replay of those 3 should be enough to give them a 1 week to 3 month ban (depending on how many times they have tk'd).

CaptainThunderWalker #75 Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:00 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 10 August 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

 

I reported someone about a month ago because I suspected he was using an aimbot (my first report ever for that - the hits were just a bit too lucky) and I got the official reply that WG does not even look into these reports.

WG does not care.

 

On the other end of things, I once had a battle where I put 3 shots directly into someone's ammorack. I hit the ammorack with my first shot, he repaired it, and then I hit it twice more. And then his turrent went pop.:trollface:

 

When you play a lot of battles - sooner or later something stupidly unlikely is bound to happen. No need for hacks to get the RNG gods to do something silly!



HassenderZerhacker #76 Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:11 AM

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View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 11 August 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

 

On the other end of things, I once had a battle where I put 3 shots directly into someone's ammorack. I hit the ammorack with my first shot, he repaired it, and then I hit it twice more. And then his turrent went pop.:trollface:

 

When you play a lot of battles - sooner or later something stupidly unlikely is bound to happen. No need for hacks to get the RNG gods to do something silly!

 

true!

yet the very low probability of such repeat lucky shots should warrant a quick check.



Chopchopchop #77 Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:55 AM

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View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 11 August 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

 

On the other end of things, I once had a battle where I put 3 shots directly into someone's ammorack. I hit the ammorack with my first shot, he repaired it, and then I hit it twice more. And then his turrent went pop.:trollface:

 

When you play a lot of battles - sooner or later something stupidly unlikely is bound to happen. No need for hacks to get the RNG gods to do something silly!

 

How about you aim for an IS3 and next thing you know is you have kill a RHM which was in full cover....bet he was having a bad day:deer:

hson_hson #78 Posted 11 August 2017 - 04:54 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 07 August 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

Again... yet another reason why team damage from a platoon should be counted as one. As in 3 shots from the platoon. Or 3 shots solo. So that anyone that did team damage in that platoon gets blue instantly, so not to affect the one that did nothing etc.

 

Are you sure you have thought about that enough?

 

How about a platoon of three Maus which all turn to go right while a tier 9 light with a bit of lag bumps into all of them.

Boom, three Maus blue...



hson_hson #79 Posted 11 August 2017 - 04:56 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 10 August 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

I think biggest problem with TK is that WG doesn't care about getting rid of it.

1 replay of those 3 should be enough to give them a 1 week to 3 month ban (depending on how many times they have tk'd).

 

Do you realize how much support staff WG would need to employ in order to review all the replays that would be sent to them?

ZlatanArKung #80 Posted 11 August 2017 - 05:40 PM

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View Posthson_hson, on 11 August 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

 

Do you realize how much support staff WG would need to employ in order to review all the replays that would be sent to them?

 

Easy.

You create a system which checks in there are team damage in the battle.

This gets rid of 50-80% (or more) of the replays.

 

The few that are left can be checked manually.

Provide a time stamp and it will take 1 minute/replay to check.

 

After a few months, people will not deliberately TK anymore. Since they have learned they get banned for quite some time.

 

The current system where TKs is not punished is not good.


Edited by ZlatanArKung, 11 August 2017 - 05:41 PM.





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