Jump to content


So bypassing the automated TK system is fine and alright?


  • Please log in to reply
88 replies to this topic

Ph3lan #81 Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:02 PM

    Community Manager

  • WG Staff
  • 16846 battles
  • 365
  • Member since:
    11-17-2010

Hey guys!

 

I think I already discussed this very recently in another topic but the TLDR version is basically this:

View Posthson_hson, on 11 August 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

Do you realize how much support staff WG would need to employ in order to review all the replays that would be sent to them?

 

The optimal solution would be to have a perfect automated system that catches everyone who TKs, uses aim bots or any forbidden mods. Obviously the current system is not perfect, and it will probably never be completely perfect (until we let a sentient AI deal with it I guess :) ). However having an automated system that we keep improving is still much better than swamping our support agents with replays that would completely prevent them from dealing with all the other tickets they need to solve. 

 

Also, I saw quite a few complaints in here about people who FF or TK without turning blue. The thing to remember here is that the team damage a person does is accumulating across multiple matches. One shot is not supposed to trigger the system since it can be accidental (and in most of the cases it is), but several shots across one or several games will result in repercussions. I know that it is frustrating when you are the one suffering from that one shot, but we have to draw the line somewhere, we can't make it too lenient or too strict. Most of the people who shoot people intentionally won't have the patience to wait another X matches until they shoot again to cheat the system, if they had that kind of patience they wouldn't FF or TK in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 



SovietBias #82 Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:05 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 35084 battles
  • 1,093
  • Member since:
    06-10-2013

View PostZlatanArKung, on 11 August 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

 

Easy.

You create a system which checks in there are team damage in the battle.

This gets rid of 50-80% (or more) of the replays.

 

The few that are left can be checked manually.

Provide a time stamp and it will take 1 minute/replay to check.

 

After a few months, people will not deliberately TK anymore. Since they have learned they get banned for quite some time.

 

The current system where TKs is not punished is not good.

 

I think this system is mostly fine. Most of the times someone decides to be a douchebag he will get a temp ban or turn blue for a ticket back to garage.

 

The number of battles played per day are probably in the order of millions, even if you filter 90% of them, which is a bit optimistic given the number of accidental bumps that cause damage, it would be time consuming to check.

 

In my 30k+ battles I can count by hand the number of times I had problems with team killers  . Perhaps OP might get a little more abuse than me, but I'm willing to bet the grand majority of battles happen without any problems.

 

I did use the support system once when I got banned because someone decided to park a light tank below my SWE TD, earning me an 1hour ban. I got the response they were looking into it, but I presume nothing happened.



ZlatanArKung #83 Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:10 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 1529 battles
  • 3,213
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-20-2014

View PostSovietBias, on 11 August 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

 

I think this system is mostly fine. Most of the times someone decides to be a douchebag he will get a temp ban or turn blue for a ticket back to garage.

 

The number of battles played per day are probably in the order of millions, even if you filter 90% of them, which is a bit optimistic given the number of accidental bumps that cause damage, it would be time consuming to check.

 

In my 30k+ battles I can count by hand the number of times I had problems with team killers  . Perhaps OP might get a little more abuse than me, but I'm willing to bet the grand majority of battles happen without any problems.

 

I did use the support system once when I got banned because someone decided to park a light tank below my SWE TD, earning me an 1hour ban. I got the response they were looking into it, but I presume nothing happened.

 

You have to send in a ticket aswell, of course.



tajj7 #84 Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:10 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 22457 battles
  • 13,041
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View PostBP_OMowe, on 10 August 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

Sadly, it is not just the support trying to shrimp from work, it is the official policy which Ageing Jedi made a rant about:
 

Spoiler

 

 

FF off leads to far less careful playstyle, giving a lot higher reward to twitch reflexes and eye-hand coordination. You also see "abuse" of the lack of team-damage, with players stacking up to block the enemy movement to keep them in the danger zone of area effect weapons.

Of course, intentional blocking and pushing of team-mates raise, as there is no way to retaliate directly. The last point has more to do with the the quality of the support though, as the griefing is about the same regardless of the FF setting, it's just a matter on how it manifests.

This is also an overlooked aspect of moderation, the slacker the monitoring is, the more work there will be to get it back on track.

If WG made a concerted effort, well announced beforehand, to deal with team-killers, the rate of team-killing would plummet quite fast together with the workload. Having automated systems is all fine and dandy, as it should be able to handle the bulk of the routine work. Problem stems from the dubious decision to have a very imperfect automated system replace all human input (which the FPP also suffers from as per the video above).

Common opinion is that it is utterly unable to classify intent, making high damage guns the preferred tool for deliberate team-killing as the "fast trigger" of the system is the number of hits, regardless of damage.

 

So very minor things and your comment about most FPSs having FF on was as I said complete BS.  Most shooters do not have it on because it is more trouble than it's worth as we evidently see in WOTs, where people just get p*ssed off by other doing team damage to them and suffering little penalty, whilst the size of the playerbase makes anything but an automated system for it near impossible. 

 

The positives of having it off far out weigh the benefits. WOTs is also not a twitch shooter, not much is gained there. As for awareness all they have to do is make it so team mates can't shoot through friendlies, just their shots do know damage, players will be aware enough that they don't want to waste say an E100 shot and have a 15s reload because they shot a friendly. 

 

I don't really understand this comment -

 

Block Quote

 You also see "abuse" of the lack of team-damage, with players stacking up to block the enemy movement to keep them in the danger zone of area effect weapons

 

I seriously doubt intentional blocking and griefing would rise because a lot of those incidents are done to incite team damage and get people banned by trolls, those guys want people to do team damage to them so if anything those acts would drop. WG could also have a concerted effort to deal with those people directly through support and such incidents would be a lot smaller in number than team damage reports which would basically be impossible to deal with in a game as large as WOTs. 



StaryWilk #85 Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:31 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 16798 battles
  • 35
  • [WFTTE] WFTTE
  • Member since:
    11-14-2011

10:40min

http://wotreplays.com/site/3757120#windstorm-starywilk-m4a1_revaloris



Chopchopchop #86 Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:59 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 51094 battles
  • 672
  • [IDI0T] IDI0T
  • Member since:
    08-04-2013

View PostPh3lan, on 11 August 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

Hey guys!

 

I think I already discussed this very recently in another topic but the TLDR version is basically this:

 

The optimal solution would be to have a perfect automated system that catches everyone who TKs, uses aim bots or any forbidden mods. Obviously the current system is not perfect, and it will probably never be completely perfect (until we let a sentient AI deal with it I guess :) ). However having an automated system that we keep improving is still much better than swamping our support agents with replays that would completely prevent them from dealing with all the other tickets they need to solve. 

 

Also, I saw quite a few complaints in here about people who FF or TK without turning blue. The thing to remember here is that the team damage a person does is accumulating across multiple matches. One shot is not supposed to trigger the system since it can be accidental (and in most of the cases it is), but several shots across one or several games will result in repercussions. I know that it is frustrating when you are the one suffering from that one shot, but we have to draw the line somewhere, we can't make it too lenient or too strict. Most of the people who shoot people intentionally won't have the patience to wait another X matches until they shoot again to cheat the system, if they had that kind of patience they wouldn't FF or TK in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am totally understand you guys must have a lots on.  I also can see why you want to point players to here too.

I have try to help to point out after I have found the flaws from the system, but that lead to my topics being blocked, and I also be told openly as a player who go round to TK others, for which I don't!!

To me, you guys are on the side of the real trolls. Some of us do pay to be here and we do like a better game. I like the game last longer as I have put lots money in, but my loyalty are running thin, as I don't feel I am getting the same from you guys. To me, loyalty run from both ends.

It is not a perfect system we are looking for ,but for so long some of us pointed out the biggest flaws...ie platoon TK, and the so call forgiveness on the Tk damage system is not fair to lower damage dealing players, or the so call bad players(players has less game skill), and yet nothing happen.


Edited by Chopchopchop, 11 August 2017 - 09:02 PM.


WunderWurst #87 Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:36 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 62966 battles
  • 3,621
  • [FAME] FAME
  • Member since:
    02-06-2012

View PostPh3lan, on 11 August 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

Hey guys!

 

I think I already discussed this very recently in another topic but the TLDR version is basically this:

 

The optimal solution would be to have a perfect automated system that catches everyone who TKs, uses aim bots or any forbidden mods. Obviously the current system is not perfect, and it will probably never be completely perfect (until we let a sentient AI deal with it I guess :) ). However having an automated system that we keep improving is still much better than swamping our support agents with replays that would completely prevent them from dealing with all the other tickets they need to solve. 

 

Also, I saw quite a few complaints in here about people who FF or TK without turning blue. The thing to remember here is that the team damage a person does is accumulating across multiple matches. One shot is not supposed to trigger the system since it can be accidental (and in most of the cases it is), but several shots across one or several games will result in repercussions. I know that it is frustrating when you are the one suffering from that one shot, but we have to draw the line somewhere, we can't make it too lenient or too strict. Most of the people who shoot people intentionally won't have the patience to wait another X matches until they shoot again to cheat the system, if they had that kind of patience they wouldn't FF or TK in the first place. 

 

 

 

Please read your statement again. I cant even...

First of all a proper system would or should at the very least be able to detect whether a team damaging shot was dont on prupose or not. Yes that is something this system NEEDS to be able to indentify. A system (your system) which cannot even do that is an absolute failure since it cannot adress the problem at all. Everyone deals team damage from time to time that is true. However most team damage is accidental and neither of the parties involved will be to sad about it.

However that kind of damage should flat out be ignored by a good system.

Once someone knows the boundries of the current system (which by the way is a pathetic excuse of a system) he can pretty much do whatever he wants to do without ever fearing a punishment. Even I could teamkill and damage multiple teammates in a single day if I wanted and would play the required amount of battles.

 

Also your system has a logical problem in it. I do not care what these guys might do in the future and that they might get banned for 2 days next month. I got wronged the other day. So I want to see some appropriate punishment ASAP. THere is no comfort for me knowing that they might get banned in the future if they do something like that maybe 10 times more, nor is there for anyone else.

Hell I go as far and say if a platoon decides to pick on certain players they can get away with more than 10 full HP kills a day. "Lets teamkill anyone who has the name "rommel" or "guderian" in the nickname... That You can do without ANY problem every single time you meet someone with such a nickname. Same would go "Hey lets teamkill anyone from this or that clan when we meet him." People get away with such toxic behavior.

While I understand that this cannot be done manually you should at least allow such extreme cases like platoon teamkilling to be investigated manually. Hell add a new category in the report system. Once someone abuses that for no good reason he will not be able to use this report option any more. That would make people think twice whether they have an actual complaint or just some random [edited].

 



_yung #88 Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:48 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • WGL PRO Player
  • 1971 battles
  • 321
  • [S3AL] S3AL
  • Member since:
    12-21-2012

Or you know.. you could just disable friendly fire...

just make a friendly shell autobounce

 

I still find it so surprising that friendly fire is such a big issue in a slow paced game like this. We're not talking about frames, we're talking full seconds to react. Sure you hit on accident because someone moved in while you were scoped. 

What is far easier to determine than proclaimed to be is that an accidental shot normally aims at something else than the friendly target, and that should be easily identifiable

 



WunderWurst #89 Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:31 AM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 62966 battles
  • 3,621
  • [FAME] FAME
  • Member since:
    02-06-2012

View Post_yung, on 11 August 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

Or you know.. you could just disable friendly fire...

just make a friendly shell autobounce

 

I still find it so surprising that friendly fire is such a big issue in a slow paced game like this. We're not talking about frames, we're talking full seconds to react. Sure you hit on accident because someone moved in while you were scoped. 

What is far easier to determine than proclaimed to be is that an accidental shot normally aims at something else than the friendly target, and that should be easily identifiable

 

 

I had the same idea, but I guess it would quit heavily increase the workload on the servers. And if we all know one single thing: Wargaming has no interest in spending money to improve the gameplayexperience more than they have to.




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users