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Shots like these are why people claim ghost shells


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eldrak #1 Posted 08 August 2017 - 05:34 PM

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Aiming

Posted Image

Firing

Posted Image

Hitting?

Posted Image

Shell went through hole in tracks nowhere near animation for trajectory (judging from center of explosion)

Posted Image

 

So, game shows shell going slightly to the left of aimpoint when in reality it went to the far right edge (enemy tank was reversing).



Velvet_Underground #2 Posted 08 August 2017 - 05:41 PM

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Replay plox

Balc0ra #3 Posted 08 August 2017 - 05:50 PM

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Thing you gotta remember is that the shell you see on your client. Is never a 100% representation of what the shell does on the server. If it's "fine" it trails far behind. And if you have packet loss, even if the ping is fine.... this might happen.  It's the price you pay.. to have server side calculations. 

 

Luckily it's not something you see daily, or weekly on my end. Annoying indeed. But it's rare enough that I don't get to upset about it.


Edited by Balc0ra, 08 August 2017 - 05:52 PM.


WindSplitter1 #4 Posted 08 August 2017 - 08:15 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 08 August 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

 It's the price you pay.. to have server side calculations. 

 

Luckily it's not something you see daily, or weekly on my end. Annoying indeed. But it's rare enough that I don't get to upset about it.

 

That and a wasted premium shell. I think it's better this way, though. Not an IT expert but if that was based on your own rig, would it allow one to change vehicle aspects (giving a Maus 5000hp engine)?

SABAOTH #5 Posted 08 August 2017 - 08:27 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 08 August 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

Thing you gotta remember is that the shell you see on your client. Is never a 100% representation of what the shell does on the server. If it's "fine" it trails far behind. And if you have packet loss, even if the ping is fine.... this might happen.  It's the price you pay.. to have server side calculations. 

 

Luckily it's not something you see daily, or weekly on my end. Annoying indeed. But it's rare enough that I don't get to upset about it.

 

I got sometimes shells that miss the tank but do damage, so there is ghostshells for you. :girl:

Nishi_Kinuyo #6 Posted 08 August 2017 - 08:48 PM

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Tracers are in no way indicative of where you hit an enemy vehicle if ping/packetloss is involved.

As can be clearly seen in this video:

Around the 12:30-12:35 mark you can clearly see that the hit happens before the tracer leaves the barrel, and that the tracer only just barely hits the rearmost part of the target.

Only the hit decals are sorta accurate in determining where a tank was hit.

And at 17:20 mark you can see how it looks like with a decent amount of lag: (230-250 ping), which clearly shows the hit explosion happening to the front of the target, while the tracer goes to the rear of the target.



Biofraction #7 Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:57 PM

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Got soem NoShells at Testserver and no allert 6 sence. Hope this end at regular server cluster.

 

 


Edited by Biofraction, 11 August 2017 - 03:15 PM.


Yakito #8 Posted 19 August 2017 - 11:13 PM

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Explain this shot to me.

I can also upload the replay. I was in the bulldog.

 

https://gyazo.com/49...ba11837abccb456

 

 



Enforcer1975 #9 Posted 19 August 2017 - 11:37 PM

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View PostBiofraction, on 10 August 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

Got soem NoShells at Testserver and no allert 6 sence. Hope this end at regular server cluster.

 

 

I had some 6th sense stoppage or heavy delay maybe 2-3 times on the regular server but nothing worth crying about since that only happened every blue moon. 



DaSmith #10 Posted 20 August 2017 - 12:07 AM

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So many times I see my shell and its tracer go through the middle of the enemy and no hit is registered...

Nishi_Kinuyo #11 Posted 20 August 2017 - 09:12 AM

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View PostYakito, on 19 August 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

Explain this shot to me.

I can also upload the replay. I was in the bulldog.

 

https://gyazo.com/49...ba11837abccb456

 

 

What's a screenshot program having to do with uploading replays?:unsure:

So why not wotreplays upload?



Sfinski #12 Posted 20 August 2017 - 09:23 AM

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No-one has ever denied ghost shells though. They happen as is expected with online game where part of the game is calculated server side and part on players end. 

bammkillshot #13 Posted 20 August 2017 - 10:07 AM

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Great logic.

Anecdotal evidence to prove that this specific shot was not necessarily a ghost shell.

 

That does not prove anything for any other shot.

 

If anyone thinks that there are no ghost shells, please explain to me, how is it possible for shells to fly straight through the middle of a vehicle, when neither the target, nor the tank shooting have moved within the last few seconds?



Nishi_Kinuyo #14 Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:03 AM

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View Postbammkillshot, on 20 August 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

Great logic.

Anecdotal evidence to prove that this specific shot was not necessarily a ghost shell.

 

That does not prove anything for any other shot.

 

If anyone thinks that there are no ghost shells, please explain to me, how is it possible for shells to fly straight through the middle of a vehicle, when neither the target, nor the tank shooting have moved within the last few seconds?

:facepalm:

Did you even watch the video I linked?

Tracer trajectory is non-indicative of where a shell actually goes, especially when ping or packet loss is involved.


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 20 August 2017 - 11:04 AM.


bammkillshot #15 Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:05 AM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 20 August 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

:facepalm:

Did you even watch the video I linked?

Tracer trajectory is non-indicative of where a shell actually goes, especially when ping or packet loss is involved.

No i did not watch it, but i am pretty sure that it would not matter if i did.

What does matter is, if you read the explanation for a specific situation that i described.

Seemingly you did not, so here we go again:

 

Now explain to me.

-reticle 100% on target vehicle

-target vehicle stationary for some time (and does not move after shot is fired)

-shooting vehicle stationary for some time (and does not move after shot is fired)

--> no possible way to not "hit" the target due to bad ping

-shot is fired and ammo is consumed

-shell does not hit the target, but hits the ground somewhere behind the target

 

Now tell me: how does that have anything to do with ping or package loss?

 


Edited by bammkillshot, 20 August 2017 - 11:11 AM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #16 Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:24 AM

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And your virusscanner ate the replay I take?

How else is anyone supposed to investigate your shot missing the target?

After all:


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 20 August 2017 - 11:28 AM.


Witsdontlie #17 Posted 19 October 2017 - 11:25 PM

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Reviving this thread to show a replay of this happening twice in a row to me in a game from today. It's a series of three shots. The first shot looks like it could have been a legit miss. But shot 2 and 3 definitely went through that tank. 

 

http://wotreplays.eu...0737f7b70f49a1b

 

It made me tilt so hard I sat there getting shot at for most of my HP cause I swore that I'd rather die than let that guy survive the game. 



Lil_Dimitry #18 Posted 19 October 2017 - 11:56 PM

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View PostYakito, on 19 August 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

Explain this shot to me.

I can also upload the replay. I was in the bulldog.

 

https://gyazo.com/49...ba11837abccb456

 

 

 

what game is that?

Enforcer1975 #19 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:47 AM

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View PostWitsdontlie, on 19 October 2017 - 11:25 PM, said:

Reviving this thread to show a replay of this happening twice in a row to me in a game from today. It's a series of three shots. The first shot looks like it could have been a legit miss. But shot 2 and 3 definitely went through that tank.

 

http://wotreplays.eu...0737f7b70f49a1b

 

It made me tilt so hard I sat there getting shot at for most of my HP cause I swore that I'd rather die than let that guy survive the game.

 

Your ping is jumping between 25-60ms and your discolight is strobing red quite a few times.

As mentioned above it's the price we have to pay for having a system where nobody can use your classic cheat. Also don't forget you are playing with 29 other players here who live [insert deity here] knows where on [insert deity here] knows what rig with [insert deity here] what kind of internet connection. For all i know you can be from a country with bad internet far away from the servers playing against a player from a country with state of the art internet living next to the server....now imagine what happens when the server tries to establish a somewhat fair connection between those two.



K_A #20 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:58 AM

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I used to use a server reticle overlay, the same one circonflexes uses, which displays both your client reticle AND a crude server reticle at the same time, so you'd be able to track enemies with the smooth client reticle but at the same time see if the server reticle lagged behind and adjust accordingly.

 

With this it was possible to spin the turret in such a fashion that while my client reticle thought the turret would turn from the front to the back on the left side of the tank (shortest way) the server would have been ever so slightly behind, and turned all the way from the right. That lead to a time and space where my server reticle was a full 180 degrees off from where my client thought I should be aiming, and had I fired my gun right there and then it would've fired a shell from the back of my turret.






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