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T110 E5 - catastrophic tank win curves


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japtank #1 Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:43 PM

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For some reason I checked the winrate of the tank, probably to compare them to the soviet heavies, which I can't be arsed to check anymore because of the shock those curves caused: they are even worse than the Sturer Emil!

 

50% winrate players have 46% on it and only 56% players manage to get back to 56% win.

48% players score a whooping 43% and that's the bulk of the playerbase (average being 48.5 counting draws).

 

Can a few millimeters armor have such a big impact.

I'm puzzled :mellow:



1ucky #2 Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:07 AM

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View Postjaptank, on 09 August 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

For some reason I checked the winrate of the tank, probably to compare them to the soviet heavies, which I can't be arsed to check anymore because of the shock those curves caused: they are even worse than the Sturer Emil!

 

50% winrate players have 46% on it and only 56% players manage to get back to 56% win.

48% players score a whooping 43% and that's the bulk of the playerbase (average being 48.5 counting draws).

 

Can a few millimeters armor have such a big impact.

I'm puzzled :mellow:

I have an abysmal WR in it, nice to see I'm not the only one who struggled in it... :P

 

But what do you mean with "a few mm of armor"??

The armor is too thin, or...??

(Well, apparently yes, it has frontal weakspots and of course weak sides and rear, while other heavies are usually better armored... Of course having super heavy armor (or not) makes a difference.)


Edited by 1ucky, 10 August 2017 - 12:09 AM.


Pansenmann #3 Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:08 AM

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I underperform with all my tier 10 tanks - and I know what is the reason:

 

the teams are bad.



kripton69 #4 Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:18 AM

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Two reasons: It's tier 10 and you're cherrypicking. These tank curves have one fatal weakness which is that it doesn't compare tanks tier-for-tier but for overall win rate. Players win much less at tier 10 than they do at other tiers but this statistic(or any other, sadly) doesn't take that into account. This is why you can expect most tier 10 tanks to have poor performance curves up until like 54% win rate and that's perfectly normal.

 

What I mean with cherrypicking is that you consciously picked the performance for a 50% player although it gets steeply better for anyone with 51% win rate or better. "46.32% for a 50% player" sounds pretty bad but "49.24% for a 51% player" or "50.48 for a 52% player" is already fairly good for a tier 10 tank.

 

It's still a good statistic but as with all statistics, it's not the Bible and common sense should still be applied.


Edited by kripton69, 10 August 2017 - 12:18 AM.


Ankara_Aatu #5 Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:18 AM

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I have 53% overall and I think 46% on the E5 :(

 

But then again I always sucked in it, even before the nerf. I'm not really sure what my problem is with the tank, but I just can't get it to work. Probably I rely too much on the armor, but I think I do that on pretty much all armored tanks and most of the time I do ok.



fighting_falcon93 #6 Posted 10 August 2017 - 03:20 AM

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View Postjaptank, on 09 August 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

For some reason I checked the winrate of the tank, probably to compare them to the soviet heavies, which I can't be arsed to check anymore because of the shock those curves caused: they are even worse than the Sturer Emil!

 

50% winrate players have 46% on it and only 56% players manage to get back to 56% win.

48% players score a whooping 43% and that's the bulk of the playerbase (average being 48.5 counting draws).

 

Can a few millimeters armor have such a big impact.

I'm puzzled :mellow:

 

I'm not even bothering with the E5 after the nerf, completely useless tank. It doesn't surprise me at all that the WR curves are dropping, as soon as you peek with your turret people just click on your cupola. After 9.20 it will be even more useless as the M48 Patton will have about equally bad turret, but a much better gun.

 

If you want a real HT that actually has armor that works, go with IS-7 or Kranvagn :great:

 

And now just wait for the people that will tell me that I can't be serius, that all tanks should have weakspots on their turret front, and that I need to learn to play :rolleyes:


Edited by fighting_falcon93, 10 August 2017 - 03:22 AM.


Timewarp76 #7 Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:19 AM

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and that is what happens when tanks gets nerfed, thank WG for it!

HunterXHunter8 #8 Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:21 AM

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i have bad winrate in e5 but above average damage in it

TankkiPoju #9 Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:50 AM

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View Postjaptank, on 09 August 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

Can a few millimeters armor have such a big impact.

I'm puzzled :mellow:

 

Not really. Even when buffed E5, didn't really do all that well statistically. It still has thin sides and rear and everyone learned to shoot the cupola with HEAT anyway.

 

Lesson learned: Just because good players do well in a tank, doesn't mean it's actually OP. 

 



SABAOTH #10 Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:54 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 10 August 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

 

Not really. Even when buffed E5, didn't really do all that well statistically. It still has thin sides and rear and everyone learned to shoot the cupola with HEAT anyway.

 

Lesson learned: Just because good players do well in a tank, doesn't mean it's actually OP. 

 

 

You believe WG actually learned a lesson? :)

brumbarr #11 Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:04 AM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 10 August 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

 

You believe WG actually learned a lesson? :)

They didnt nerf the BC did they?

 

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 10 August 2017 - 03:20 AM, said:

 

I'm not even bothering with the E5 after the nerf, completely useless tank. It doesn't surprise me at all that the WR curves are dropping, as soon as you peek with your turret people just click on your cupola. After 9.20 it will be even more useless as the M48 Patton will have about equally bad turret, but a much better gun.

 

If you want a real HT that actually has armor that works, go with IS-7 or Kranvagn :great:

 

And now just wait for the people that will tell me that I can't be serius, that all tanks should have weakspots on their turret front, and that I need to learn to play :rolleyes:

L2p


 

TankkiPoju #12 Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:06 AM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 10 August 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

 

You believe WG actually learned a lesson? :)

 

Yes, they learned.

 

They learned if you buff a tier 10 tank, people will overreact and flock to play the tank. Every Youtube streamer will make a video about it and cry "OP OP OP".

 

WG used the same learned tactic more extreme on Maus and now on Foch B. Those tanks were flat out overbuffed on purpose. Next year WG will say "we listened to community and will nerf Foch B". Then they will buff some other unpopular tier 10, and so on...

 


Edited by TankkiPoju, 10 August 2017 - 08:08 AM.


STLR #13 Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:45 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 10 August 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

 

Not really. Even when buffed E5, didn't really do all that well statistically. It still has thin sides and rear and everyone learned to shoot the cupola with HEAT anyway.

 

Lesson learned: Just because good players do well in a tank, doesn't mean it's actually OP. 

 

 

It was that thing that cupola was a little bit stronger and also lpf and you could push more and rely on the armor more. now it's the same in terms of gun handling , with decent lpf and cupola, and ofc at close combat masses don't know to wiggle and stuff, and to play. But at medium to longist range is still godlike.

Dr_ownape #14 Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:12 AM

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weird I have 60% against my 56.5% average and not a small data set either after more than 1k battles

Cobra6 #15 Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:23 AM

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I've got nearly 60% overall WR yet on the Leo (Swedish) I have 48%, now *THAT* is a terrible tank.

 

The T110E5 is fine as it is now, you just can't press "W" anymore and win the match, what a crying shame.......oh wait......

 

Cobra 6



TankkiPoju #16 Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:39 AM

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View PostSTLR, on 10 August 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

 

It was that thing that cupola was a little bit stronger and also lpf and you could push more and rely on the armor more.

 

The lower plate has always been the same on E5.

 

 

View PostCobra6, on 10 August 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

The T110E5 is fine as it is now, you just can't press "W" anymore and win the match, what a crying shame.......oh wait......

 

Well like I said, it's useless to look at how good players do in tanks. Good players can make any tank work.

Most people who think E5 just pressed W and won games seem to have a slightly lacking experience in the said tank.... just saying :hiding:

 

And it is kind of funny if a person has 69% winrate in tier 10 medium tank like batchat 25t it's perfectly normal, but if a person has same winrate in a heavy tank... well that just means the heavy tank must be OP, right?

 

 


 

leggasiini #17 Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:51 AM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 10 August 2017 - 04:20 AM, said:

After 9.20 it will be even more useless as the M48 Patton will have about equally bad turret, but a much better gun.

 

Its actually better because the cupola is way smaller after changes.

 

And its faster.

 

And it has better gun.

 

And it has better view range.

 

And almost as much HP.

 

Ironically, E5 is heavy but its smaller while Fatton has better turret. Wat 



brumbarr #18 Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:58 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 10 August 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

 

Well like I said, it's useless to look at how good players do in tanks. Good players can make any tank work.

 

While that is true, it isnt binary, its not: a tank works or it doenst.

A good players can make any tank work, but some tanks better than others, and thats whats relevant here, if a 60%ers get  58% in a tank and 63% in another tank, yes, they both made them work but one works significantly better.  That is what is relevant.



Dr_ownape #19 Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:06 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 10 August 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

I've got nearly 60% overall WR yet on the Leo (Swedish) I have 48%, now *THAT* is a terrible tank.

 

The T110E5 is fine as it is now, you just can't press "W" anymore and win the match, what a crying shame.......oh wait......

 

Cobra 6

 

just because you suck in it doesn't make it a terrible tank. it still sits near the top of most tables for tier 7 meds and on my other account it's my best tier 7 by far.

Knight_Zao #20 Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:40 PM

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The reason for the drop in WR is that unicums arent playing the tank and now playing the Maus or Panzer 7 thing




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