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TD's are becoming TOO varied.


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Search_Warrant #1 Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:10 AM

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Apparently WG stated that turretless TD's got bigger guns than same tier tanks to offset the fact they had limitations without a turret and general flexability. so why does KV85 get a TD gun of the SU-100? they both get the 390 alpha gun at teir 6. but british TD's share the 17 pounder on most of the brit TD's and heavies, modified 17 pounders for mediums.

 

Wiki:

"Tank destroyers vary widely from vehicle to vehicle, but they do share a number of things in common. Tank destroyers are generally the most well armed direct-fire vehicles in the game, though they still fall short of indirect-fire artillery."

 

So why are there so many TD's with medium guns? like 90mm on tier 7-8? i dont call that well armed for the teirs they meet.90mm is frowned upon in tier 8 on mediums nowadays. what does a tier 7-8 TD do with such a gun? turret or no. its a bad gun.

 

Wiki:

"there are many tank destroyers with little to no armor which are best played at a distance, using their camo values to stay concealed behind bush cover. From these positions, sniping tank destroyers can safely inflict damage with their high-power guns and ambush tanks who wander too far into the open."

 

the tanks with no armor in lower tiers (besides german turreted monsters like RHM+) generally get really bad guns to boot, M56 Scorpion, T25/2. brit TD's (turret and none turret thanks to the huge cupola weak spots). these tanks got camo butchered after firing. bushes got shaved all around. there is no place unless its malinovka type of maps have places for them to shoot something that have open areas for the enemy to go in front of the TD.

 

"high powered guns" what exactly IS high powered? alpha? dpm? reliable pen? to me a high alpha with good pen means "high powered" not a freaking 230-240 alpha gun with pissy dpm and sub-par pen.

 

Wiki:

"Many tank destroyers fall somewhere in-between these two extremes, with enough armor to withstand some direct fire but not enough to operate as a front-line brawler. "

 

What tanks are these? no TD i know can withstand any shots but not brawl at all. ether you have a small gun to trade a shot in brawl distance and get nuked or your names JP E100. there is no in between.

 

Wiki:

"Though there may be many differences among tank destroyers, most of them are vulnerable to similar threats. Almost all tank destroyers are vulnerable to flanking maneuvers by fast enemy light and medium tanks."

 

Well this was true only you started making overpowered german TD's Tanks with big guns strapped to a well camo'd turreted tank. now people only want to play THEM because that weakness is negated, why play a turretless TD that can get flanked when you canget a turreted one that can smack anyone who dare get near your sides?

 

Wiki:

"Even heavily armored assault guns are often poorly protected from the sides or rear and lack the fast-moving turrets needed to defend themselves from such angles."

 

JP E100 is actually very armored from the side when your tier 8 with low pen, even slightest angling can cause bounces,  obj704 side is troll as hell. some others who are quite armored that i cant remember too. but nobody plays them so who cares right?

 

Wiki:

Fragile sniping tank destroyers not only suffer from these issues, but are also easy prey to anyone in range once their position is revealed. In addition, both the slow moving assault guns and the weak (and often open-topped) snipers are easy prey for artillery when caught out of position.

 

So they are basically stating no armored popguns are worse than the armored big gunned TD's in this stement. they suffer far more than "normal" TD's.so why would anyone bother to play the weaker TD's? oh wait they dont.. again.. this needs fixing. the variation of TD's are so far apart they dont have a "rule" for TD's anymore. T28 has better gun stats than T28 Proto, because one got a turret. it makes sence...

 

But S1 and UDES have less DPM and alpha than a SkorpionG..who has a turret. no ammount of gun handling improvements will balance the fact Skorpg has a turret with a much better gun.

 

I really want to know what direction WG are going with TD's. lights are basically mediums now (boooooo). TD's just look like a poor mans medium or poor armored big gun "trader" tank....or straight replace a medium (skorpionG).

 

So i ask you. what ARE TD's? as a whole.i dont understand them. we have UDES and then we have SkorpionG. we all know who the clear choice is and the reasons for it. but they are the same tier and play different roles. but clearly one roll is just better than the other in todays meta.

 

Or this whole post is just me bored and rambling on over something random again :P

 

 


Edited by Search_Warrant, 10 August 2017 - 04:14 AM.


_VoiVittu_ #2 Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:38 AM

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Once you play the kv85 and su100 you will know the difference

 



Search_Warrant #3 Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:52 AM

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View Post6kalle9, on 10 August 2017 - 03:38 AM, said:

Once you play the kv85 and su100 you will know the difference

 

 

I do. gun handling mainly. but having a turret means allot too on a fairy good platform for the tier to carry it makes it nice. but the point stands. its unfair they both get a big gun for there tiers. meanwhile brit TD's at tier 6 get a pathetic 150 pop gun with less pen. heavies get... a unspeakable POS that hits like a wet noodle floating in the wind.

roachex #4 Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:56 AM

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There has been forever lasting discussion that turetless tanks are obsolete, but at the same time, they dont require a clearly better gun than MT or HT.

Turret & mobility are something wot comunity cant compare to gun.

Search_Warrant #5 Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:59 AM

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View Postroachex, on 10 August 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

There has been forever lasting discussion that turetless tanks are obsolete, but at the same time, they dont require a clearly better gun than MT or HT.

Turret & mobility are something wot comunity cant compare to gun.

 

Not sure. S1/UDES get "mobility" but the guns are straight up worse than SkorpG. skorpG gets turret/gun/good mobility combo. it never sacrficed anything. TD's are used to not having armor nowadays. but only a turret/GOOD gun can save them to make up for the armor loss. sadly that memo went out the window with some paper low alpha tanks.

trooper73 #6 Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:48 AM

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There is not enough maps for tank destroyers to play on properly, most of the maps now are town based and not even big enough to accomodate tank destroyers. I remember playing this game as a beta tester and the first few years it was the best it had ever been, the game is becoming to technical and been a pay to win enviroment. Tank destoyers are and were what they say td's they either have crappy gun with fast reload or a huge derp gun that takes 30 seconds to reload. I dont think for one minute in real life it took that long to reload a shell and there view range at the moment is damn ridiculous, you are one shotted by the derps all the time from mega long ranges. think wargaming needs to re-address the overhaul concept of the game and start making more balanced.

leggasiini #7 Posted 10 August 2017 - 06:11 AM

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Are you seriously comparing KV-85 with 122mm to SU-100? Have you actually every plsyed the KV-85 with 122?

 

Im trying to 3 mark KV-85 with 122 right now and while alpha can be fun its torturing and SU-100 with 122 is infinitely better

 

Also last thing this game needs is buff to Swedish TDs


Edited by leggasiini, 10 August 2017 - 06:13 AM.


roachex #8 Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:55 AM

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Ikea TDs has extreme good camo, a twist of great & meh mobility combined with good gh, high pen. Its actually hard to put Ikea TDs next to other nations, because of siege.

But you can compare ex Skorp vs Jagdpanth2 vs Ferdi. They all have the same gun. JP2 is a great casemate tank, but barely picked over Skorp. For Ferdi the story is even worse.



Cannes76 #9 Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:18 AM

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View Posttrooper73, on 10 August 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

There is not enough maps for tank destroyers to play on properly, most of the maps now are town based and not even big enough to accomodate tank destroyers. I remember playing this game as a beta tester and the first few years it was the best it had ever been, the game is becoming to technical and been a pay to win enviroment. Tank destoyers are and were what they say td's they either have crappy gun with fast reload or a huge derp gun that takes 30 seconds to reload. I dont think for one minute in real life it took that long to reload a shell and there view range at the moment is damn ridiculous, you are one shotted by the derps all the time from mega long ranges. think wargaming needs to re-address the overhaul concept of the game and start making more balanced.

You would be wrong. Reloads are for the most part faster ingame than they were historically.



MrEdweird #10 Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:22 AM

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It's not too surprising that there are a lot of paper TDs. After all, their strenght was in ambushing unsuspecting victims and according to the rule of thumb of armored warfare: don't get seen, if you get seen, don't get shot at, if you get shot at, don't get hit, if you get hit, don't get penetrated, if you get penetrated, don't get killed.

 

So if you're never seen...sadly, that's not the reality on many maps and WG is aware of this. They have stated on multiple occasions that they fully understand and are probably OK with different tanks being better or worse on certain maps.


Edited by MrEdweird, 10 August 2017 - 03:12 PM.


EvilThatMenDo #11 Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:22 AM

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KV85 and Su100 are at least somewhat balanced. In the past with the KV1S it was ridiculous. 

 

Anyway. What really bothers me. What anime is this neko sig from? 



commer #12 Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:40 AM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 10 August 2017 - 04:52 AM, said:

 

I do. gun handling mainly. but having a turret means allot too on a fairy good platform for the tier to carry it makes it nice. but the point stands. its unfair they both get a big gun for there tiers. meanwhile brit TD's at tier 6 get a pathetic 150 pop gun with less pen. heavies get... a unspeakable POS that hits like a wet noodle floating in the wind.

 

Not the gun handling. KV85 has 1200dpm with the 122. FFS. 

Phobos4321 #13 Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:42 AM

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whats the pint in quoting outdated wiki stuff

 

right now is there a td that would fall short in single target damage/dpm compared to a arty ? also non turreted isnt like all non turreted

 

just look at the T95 - it might be slow  still it turns faster than ferdi,jTiger, Jpz E100 while having less weakspots as such it isnt as vulnerable as other tanks 

 

im not even sure if i would call the swedish tds (hightier) weak in the armor aspect, first what you cant see is hard to shot and than there is still stuff like autobounce angle spaced armor do defend against heat

so tanks with 105mm guns might have a not so nice time fighting them

 

sig should be Rokudenashi Majutsu Koushi to Akashic Records



unhappy_bunny #14 Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:31 PM

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TD's are becoming TOO varied.

 

Say the topic title and immediately thought of the old saying

 

"Variety is the spice of life" 



Search_Warrant #15 Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:26 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 10 August 2017 - 05:11 AM, said:

Are you seriously comparing KV-85 with 122mm to SU-100? Have you actually every plsyed the KV-85 with 122?

 

Im trying to 3 mark KV-85 with 122 right now and while alpha can be fun its torturing and SU-100 with 122 is infinitely better

 

Also last thing this game needs is buff to Swedish TDs

 

I mainly comparing a gun that a heavy gets, but it happens to be a TD gun the same tier it gets the 122mm as well. which i find really odd.




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