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Why artillery is excluded from teamkill/teamdmg game rules?

arty TK TD system

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SeekerKuba #1 Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:30 AM

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Can anyone explain my why artillery have different tk,td mechanism?

Nowadays it often happend greedy arty player are shooting to enemy despite ally player is near his target. Even if he mark his target, not always there is a way to escape from arty splash/stun range. Ppl all the time report they die becasue ally arty: team dmg , track or stun them.

 

Normal tanks after 3rd shoot to ally got banned. Such rule should be also applied to arty in order to prevent them from a taking risky shoots. Once i saw ally arty was harasing his team and he didnt even turn blue after 10 shoots or more...



Jigabachi #2 Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:37 AM

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View PostSeekerKuba, on 11 August 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

Can anyone explain my why artillery have different tk,td mechanism?

It doesn't have a different one. It's exactly the same one - and that's the problem. Sometimes.



Kozzy #3 Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:44 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 11 August 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

It doesn't have a different one. It's exactly the same one - and that's the problem. Sometimes.

 

Are you sure?  I could be wrong, Edited .  In fact, the only time I have gone blue (from memory), when driving arty, is by being a 'tard and shooting at a tank who was close to a capping ally.

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks. 


Edited by VMX, 11 August 2017 - 04:09 PM.


iztok #4 Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:47 AM

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> Why artillery is excluded from teamkill/teamdmg game rules?

Because they fire 2-4 seconds into the future and can't predict what fool will wander into their splash when shell finally lands.


Edited by iztok, 11 August 2017 - 09:48 AM.


robezur6 #5 Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:49 AM

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View Postiztok, on 11 August 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

> Why artillery is excluded from teamkill/teamdmg game rules?

Because they fire 2-4 seconds into the future and can't predict what fool will wander into their splash when shell finally lands.

Yup, beacuse using brain playing arta is too hard so you cant predict anything. 



Jigabachi #6 Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:14 AM

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View PostKozzy, on 11 August 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Are you sure? 

I can't, ofc, Edited, I guess that I'm right. 

 

Also:

View PostSeekerKuba, on 11 August 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

Once i saw ally arty was harasing his team and he didnt even turn blue after 10 shoots or more...

Replay or it didn't happen.

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks. 


Edited by VMX, 11 August 2017 - 04:08 PM.


malachi6 #7 Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:19 AM

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View Postiztok, on 11 August 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

> Why artillery is excluded from teamkill/teamdmg game rules?

Because they fire 2-4 seconds into the future and can't predict what fool will wander into their splash when shell finally lands.

 

Given most arty players are only playing one handed and pull the T key off their keyboards.  It's  hardly surprising that "idiots" get hit by them.  

 

I was wedged behind a red TD yesterday.  Arty shoots the guy, kills me.  Then presses T and tell me it's my fault.  



Dr_Oolen #8 Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:23 AM

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because its already too hard to play, so you at least dont have to pay attention to whether you tk/shoot green tonks

 

edit: storytime -Edited

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks. 


Edited by VMX, 11 August 2017 - 04:05 PM.


truoste #9 Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:25 AM

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As far as i know it is the same system but splash damage does not seem to calculate as a hit i.e. you can splash more than 2 times without turning blue and then there is the stun which also does not seem to get conuted. I can be wrong, these are just my observations (experience from receiving end, before mod comes and cleans this up as inappropriate comment). 

Edited by truoste, 11 August 2017 - 10:27 AM.


Balc0ra #10 Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:18 PM

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It's not just how many shots always. The norm is 3-4 shots for ALL tanks. The damage towards enemy vs friendly threshold is an equally vital factor. Zero damage crit hits count. Like arty splash on your tracks. But... iirc, stun don't count. As in no module damage, but he only gave you a  stun that I have gotten at times from them. As you are not fined for doing so as an arty player. Nor have I've been compensated for it, unless he does some damage.

 

So I find it rather far fetched for him to do 10... unless it's a low tier arty with a low caliber and really low HE pen vs higher tier HT. As HE shots that don't fully pen anything, and do zero damage to even modules don't count either. 



laulaur #11 Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:26 PM

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Now the splash damage if you hit allied tanks AND enemy tank is not punished i think.

Not sure about it, but in next patch it will be punished.



HeidenSieker #12 Posted 11 August 2017 - 01:01 PM

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View Postiztok, on 11 August 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

> Why artillery is excluded from teamkill/teamdmg game rules?

 

Because they fire 2-4 seconds into the future and can't predict what fool will wander into their splash when shell finally lands.

 

The OP knows SPGs are not excluded.

 

With the "splash" zone, even when both the target is T'd, and the area marked, people do still rush in. That's up to them.



SeekerKuba #13 Posted 11 August 2017 - 01:51 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 11 August 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

 

The OP knows SPGs are not excluded.

 

With the "splash" zone, even when both the target is T'd, and the area marked, people do still rush in. That's up to them.

1. light is circling heavy tank,

2. arty mark this heavy

3. light is still circling becasue escape is too risky for him

4. arty shoots and cause dmg and team dmg

 

The fault is on arty side.

 

But you are right when :

1. arty mark heavy tank 

2. light start circling this heavy tank,

3. arty shoots and cause dmg and team dmg

 

Its totaly circling tank fault.

 

But to be honest, 2nd situation if very rar while 1st one is quite common...

 

 

 


Edited by SeekerKuba, 11 August 2017 - 01:51 PM.


HeidenSieker #14 Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:32 PM

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View PostSeekerKuba, on 11 August 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

1. light is circling heavy tank,

2. arty mark this heavy

3. light is still circling becasue escape is too risky for him

4. arty shoots and cause dmg and team dmg

 

The fault is on arty side.

 

But you are right when :

1. arty mark heavy tank 

2. light start circling this heavy tank,

3. arty shoots and cause dmg and team dmg

 

Its totaly circling tank fault.

 

But to be honest, 2nd situation if very rar while 1st one is quite common...

 

Proper SPG options:

 

Situation 1: a) wait and see what happens (if possible); b) pick another target (if possible).

 

1a) If LT OK fine, situation over. If LT is blown up, shell HT (unless more important target available).

 

If 1b): Prepare for whinge "You did nothing...." from LT driver. Ignore it.

 

Situation 2: Same as situation1. What can you do, nothing. Often, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

 

Using the "T" option is often very good (and should be done), but often leads to whinging "Stop spamming who cares what you're firing at". "Go figure", as the yanks are fond of saying.

 

 

It's not at all that every situation involves the circling scenario, though. In situations when there is no circling, just a relatively static situation, if one's SPG is accurate (e.g. Bishop :) ), it's possible to help by shelling the enemy, but erring on the side of caution (the part of the enemy furthest from the team-mate, or trying to splash the enemy behind cover, or just trying to make him keep his head down). When this explodes an enemy in a huge explosion, as it sometimes does, the team-mates brown-trouser comment is sometimes amusing :)

 

 

It's just a matter of playing the game, and being reasonably careful.


Edited by HeidenSieker, 11 August 2017 - 02:34 PM.


RamRaid90 #15 Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:39 PM

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View PostSeekerKuba, on 11 August 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

1. light is circling heavy tank,

2. arty mark this heavy

3. light is still circling becasue escape is too risky for him

4. arty shoots and cause dmg and team dmg

 

The fault is on arty side.

 

But you are right when :

1. arty mark heavy tank 

2. light start circling this heavy tank,

3. arty shoots and cause dmg and team dmg

 

Its totaly circling tank fault.

 

But to be honest, 2nd situation if very rar while 1st one is quite common...

 

 

 

 

Most popular scenario.

 

Arty marks target that nobody is anywhere near and presses fire,

 

5 allies rush the target to destroy it before the arty can hit (this includes all allies ramming the target in a desperate attempt to take damage fromsomeone trying to support them)

 

Arty hits dead enemy tank, and all the muppets who rushed to kill him.



SABAOTH #16 Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 11 August 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

 

Most popular scenario.

 

Arty marks target that nobody is anywhere near and presses fire,

 

5 allies rush the target to destroy it before the arty can hit (this includes all allies ramming the target in a desperate attempt to take damage fromsomeone trying to support them)

 

Arty hits dead enemy tank, and all the muppets who rushed to kill him.

 

To be honest this is true, when youplay with tomatoes it does happen a lot. :teethhappy:

HeidenSieker #17 Posted 11 August 2017 - 03:00 PM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 11 August 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

To be honest this is true, when youplay with tomatoes it does happen a lot. :teethhappy:

 

I am not sure why, but whenever the enemy vehicle I'm shelling with an SPG is destroyed between me firing and the shell arriving at the target area, my shell *always* hits; it just goes "Ping!". Grr!

HeidenSieker #18 Posted 11 August 2017 - 03:03 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 11 August 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

 

Most popular scenario.

 

Arty marks target that nobody is anywhere near and presses fire,

 

5 allies rush the target to destroy it before the arty can hit (this includes all allies ramming the target in a desperate attempt to take damage fromsomeone trying to support them)

 

Arty hits dead enemy tank, and all the muppets who rushed to kill him.

 

I reckon there're communications issues, and the people rushing in read "I'm attacking player XYZ" as "Requesting attack on player XYZ". Who knows.

Merton15 #19 Posted 11 August 2017 - 03:17 PM

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When the green tanks shoot the red tanks duck. When the red tanks shoot the green tanks duck. When arty shoots everybody ducks.

Manuel1324 #20 Posted 11 August 2017 - 03:22 PM

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View Postiztok, on 11 August 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

> Why artillery is excluded from teamkill/teamdmg game rules?

Because they fire 2-4 seconds into the future and can't predict what fool will wander into their splash when shell finally lands.

That's a funny statement considering how in all discussions about arty and low skill requirements, ppl always bring up that arty players must be very skilled, because they have to predict where tanks will be in 2-4 seconds. Yet when it comes to team damage ppl claim that it's totally impossible to know where tanks will be in 2-4 seconds.

So what's correct? Are arty players innocent when it comes to teamdamage and therefore skillless as the thing they claimed was their skill doesn't exist/is impossible. Or do arty players have this skill but refuse to use it to predict friendly tank movement? Because, if you can predict enemy movement you surely can do it for friendly tanks too.






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