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French Heavies - Verdict?


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:33 PM

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Hey guys. So I was thinking of taking on a new line and something I know little about or see too much of at lower tiers, the French fatties. I certainly see plenty of AMX auotloaders French HT at higher tiers but actually they might be a Czech TVP but I was thinking of more immediate and quickly attained fun such as tier5-7. So how are they to play at these tiers? the tier5 BDR G1 looks like it has  an impressive gun that would probably cause all tiers it faces problems, but the KV1 and KV1S are much more numerous, why is that and is this tank fun? How about the tier6? and tier7 etc? What's the general feeling about French fatties?

 

I took the T34-85-> KV13-> IS route so should I maybe just go back and play around with the KV1 lines? 



IncandescentGerbil #2 Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:01 PM

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I don't think I've ever played them, but I'm guessing the mid tier Gallic heavies are so infrequently played that 2 or 3-marking them would be a relatively easy thing, which might be fun (speaking as someone who doesn't have a hope of managing it in the more popular lines!) 

roachex #3 Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:15 PM

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BDR has a good gun, but armor is meh. Big HE guns is a pain. Overall a good grinding tank.

ARL is an OK tank. The 105mm gun is the most epiphone of p2w.

M4 45 is a poor mans Tiger H. Best gun is full APCR 105mm, making it as a really costly grind tank.

Gvozdika #4 Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:43 PM

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Here's my take on them - some of which based on experiences from a year ago so things may have changed.

 

BDR - Not too bad, so long as you're not expecting armour on the same level as the KV-series. Average mobility and good guns - actually pretty balanced in terms of having some armour, some mobility and good firepower.

ARL - Probably one of those tanks that looks great on paper - 212mm pen at T6! Great! Until you realise that it is crippled by gun handling and soft stats - taking ages to aim and even then it will drive you up the wall. 105mm is the better bet - with or without APCR depending on your virtual funds. Armour not great, module damage will be your new best (unwanted) companion.

AMX M4 - Awful. No armour, still suffering from an unreliable gun that is afflicted by wafty dispersion. As the poster above says - you CAN use the 105mm for better alpha - but it's a sticking plaster for a bit of dog of a tank.

 

However....

 

Then you get the AMX 50 100 - which can fling 6 shots one after the other. Better still, you can upgrade to flinging 300 dmg shots (6 x 1800 dmg) and cause absolute mayhem if you catch someone alone and isolated. It's good training for the later autoloaders - e.g. no armour, high speed and the need to plan your attack/reloads in such a way that you don't get focused and blown to bits. Very fun once you get into the mindset of it and probably one of the few T8 heavies that is still dangerous in T9 / 10 matches thanks to a decent gun + clip burst damage. 

 

AMX 50 120 is like the 50 100 but in elite config does 4 x 400 dmg in one go. Shorter exposure time and better one-hit alphas actually makes it more survivable in high tier games and the gun is very good for it's tier (shared with the T10 AMX). Still has no armour and lots of speed for running away like a girl ....ahem... I mean tactically repositioning during a reload cycle. 

 

AMX 50B is better than the 50 120 in every way and a straight-up upgrade. However if you have no desire to go as far as T10 you can stick to the 50 120 - you can have 80% of the performance of the T10 and probably just as much fun (shooting up T7s and T8s on a regular basis thanks to our borked MM). Otherwise a decent T10 but in many maps it suffers from the lack of armour (think Himmelsdorf vs super-heavies like Types and Maus) - if you enjoy the T8 and T9 you'll probably enjoy this as well.

 

TLDR Version - mediocre tanks with elements of frustration until you hit T8. From then on - depending on whether you enjoy autoloaders - it'll get progressively better. If you don't like autoloaders - wrong line!


Edited by Gvozdika, 12 August 2017 - 03:44 PM.


VarzA #5 Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:11 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 August 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

Hey guys. So I was thinking of taking on a new line and something I know little about or see too much of at lower tiers, the French fatties. I certainly see plenty of AMX auotloaders French HT at higher tiers but actually they might be a Czech TVP but I was thinking of more immediate and quickly attained fun such as tier5-7. So how are they to play at these tiers? the tier5 BDR G1 looks like it has  an impressive gun that would probably cause all tiers it faces problems, but the KV1 and KV1S are much more numerous, why is that and is this tank fun? How about the tier6? and tier7 etc? What's the general feeling about French fatties?

 

I took the T34-85-> KV13-> IS route so should I maybe just go back and play around with the KV1 lines? 

 

The t5 kinda sucks big time until you get the top gun and even then it's not stellar. Some ppl like it because of the 90mm alpha at t5 though.

The t6 is awesome once you get the top gun, the 105. The rest of the guns are also good, including the one who carries over from the t5, but it ends up being more of a question of playstyle, and the 105 sure is entertaining. Unlike the rest it also has very troll armor, you will be surprised by how much you will bounce in it. It's an amazing crew trainer.

The t7 is seen as a bit substandard because it's armor is worse than the t6's both overall and in it's own tier. Mobility is slightly worse than the t6, and it has almost the same selection of guns, with i think a stronger engine.

 

T6/7 have in common the ability to played in multiple ways. Brawler (less for the t7), support, heavyium, etc ..., depending on the gun you choose.


Edited by VarzA, 12 August 2017 - 04:13 PM.


MR_FIAT #6 Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:28 PM

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the only real dog in the line is the tier 7, i did okay with it as i spammed full gold with the 105. far from ideal to grind with but its neccesary to get decent games with it. 

Comrade_Renamon #7 Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:59 PM

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1. BDR is something akin to the O-I Exp, quite mobile with a big gun, smaller profile too but the gun handling is not exceptional. I had a lot of fun with that tank, can sidescrape to a degree as well if your enemies don't know where to shoot, it is mainly a support heavy with huge weak spots.

2. ARL 44 I really did not like too much, frontal armour is alright to bounce a bit here and there but as soon as there is an FV304/Bishop or bigger hitting arty on the enemy team you are toast as the rest of the tank is paper thin.

3. AMX M4 45 have multiple play style depending on the gun, but both are just watered down version of other counterparts (if you chose the 90mm gun you are just a worse Tiger, if you go full gold spam 105mm gun you are just a worse IS)

 

I personally stopped at the 50 100 which at the tier it is in a powerful vehicle if you can get used to the Reload time/unload time, with a good crew/vents+food you can get the reload down to near 43 second but as my first autoloader it did not feel great to play. Cannot really say too much about the T9 and T10, but I heard the T9 isn't that great tier to tier.



JuliusCheddar #8 Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:09 PM

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If you play tiers 6 and 7 with full apcr 105mm this is probably the best line to grind ever for someone not driving backwards. 

Bdr: gun is punchy but I got PTSD from all that derp gun pens I got wrecked with

ARL: p2w mobile mark 1. Your gun handling is abysmal but rotfl 330 alpha 220 pen at tier 6

M4: p2w mobile mark 2. Gun handles significantly better, you got basically the best alpha/dpm/pen combo at tier 7 tank which is not a TD. 

50 100: Great tonk with very, and I mean it, very high skill required. Right now unfortunately Lorr is straight up better but it gets gun depression buff soon 

50 120: Basically a handicapped 50b. Sluggish when stock, long interclip reload. 

50b: Probably the best tier X autoloader, period 



ExclamationMark #9 Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:15 PM

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They require a high level of skill, so wouldn't recommend them for you.

TungstenHitman #10 Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:37 PM

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Thanks for the feedback guys, maybe even a warning. So what you are saying is the tier5-7 lack decent armour so can't afford to get close and take shots yet also have a gun with horrendous aim times and accuracy so you have no choice but to get in close to hit anything.. which it can't afford to do since they have bad armour.. bad armour, terrible gun handling.. what a sh***y combination!! 

TungstenHitman #11 Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:41 PM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 12 August 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

They require a high level of skill, so wouldn't recommend them for you.

 

Well.. I guess that explains why you only managed a 47% win rate in the BDR and an outstanding 41% win rate in the AMX 50 100, managing to ace neither.. really? couldn't ace a tank nobody uses? wow.. just wow. 

Shizuthink #12 Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:42 PM

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BDR was nice when I played it. ARL and AMX M4 were both quite lacking but I actually didn't think the AMX was that bad. 50 100 and 50B are both epic and 50 120 is decent. It was a long time ago when I grinded the line and things have changed since then though.

VarzA #13 Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:01 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 August 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

Thanks for the feedback guys, maybe even a warning. So what you are saying is the tier5-7 lack decent armour so can't afford to get close and take shots yet also have a gun with horrendous aim times and accuracy so you have no choice but to get in close to hit anything.. which it can't afford to do since they have bad armour.. bad armour, terrible gun handling.. what a sh***y combination!! 

 

The T6 can take punches, but only if :

- 150 pen or lower on the enemy

- you expose the track when coming around the corner, so that they can shoot that without damaging the rest of the tank

- you are being fired at by mediums; heavies at that tier include O-I and KV2, O-I exp and they will wreck you if they get lucky with a pen or if they fire HE as you have kinda low HP

 

So if you are in a match vs t6's, lots of meds, you can even take it where meds go (-10 on gun depression),

The beauty is the 330 alpha with 223 pen. It is almost instapen at that tier, and the alpha will shave off half the HP of a t6 med, or a third of a heavy, and a smaller tier vehicle will be just plain wrecked.

The alpha scares ppl, it's like the Jg PZ E100 alpha at t10 (half of med hp, half to a third of heavy HP).

 

The only other tank with a scarier alpha and good pen at that tier is the SU-100 with the 122mm.



ApocalypseSquad #14 Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:19 AM

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I think it's a nice line OP - I enjoyed it, give it a go.  However my stats in all but the BDR are terrible, so I am not sure why I have fond memories of them....

roachex #15 Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:21 AM

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SU-100Y scares more with alpha at tier6.

I would rate this line a bit more complex then Tiger H line. But overall there are a lot similarities. Only difference is french 105mm p2w gun.

TungstenHitman #16 Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:22 AM

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View PostApocalypseSquad, on 13 August 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

I think it's a nice line OP - I enjoyed it, give it a go.  However my stats in all but the BDR are terrible, so I am not sure why I have fond memories of them....

 

Can they carry when top tier?

Quintuss #17 Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:33 AM

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With enough skill.....

 

 

BDR is simply meh: ahlpha, armour, pen,..... yes, it isn't bad, but simply you neither have the working KV1-armour nor the "eat this"-Alpha of the OI-Exp. Mine also came with horrible MM: after 18 defeats as lowtier in a row i sold the POS.

 

ARL is acctually decent - front armour works well as toptier, gun is decent (105mm with pem usage against OI and similar high-threat, thick-armour targets): while i'd see the T150 and the OI a bit ahead in potential a very solid T6-HT. Just take care never to show your side - even HE can pen it.

 

AMX M4 is basically a poor-FCM: your armour can troll foes, but don't rely on it ever. The gun choice is ok same as the mobility. The biggest issue is really the MM: the difference in both firepower and durability between T7-HTs and T8-HTs is just enourmous.



BKatt #18 Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:22 AM

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BDR is a nice fun grind with the derp.

 

The ARL is decent. Nice gun. Workable armor.

 

AMX M4, is the worst grind in the last few years for me. Simply a dreadful tank all around.



VarzA #19 Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:20 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 13 August 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

View PostApocalypseSquad, on 13 August 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

I think it's a nice line OP - I enjoyed it, give it a go.  However my stats in all but the BDR are terrible, so I am not sure why I have fond memories of them....

 

Can they carry when top tier?

 

I'm a bad player and i carried when bottom tier with it. :P

 

Had a game where i went after a Ferdinand with the top gun and beat him (smaller reload, 223 pen enough for superstructure, and he underestimated me), despite being a better player .... wn8 wise.

You just have to be very aware of the limitations of the tank.

 

This is why i hated the BDR btw, i felt it had way lower carry potential than the ARL.

ARL has armor, mobility, great alpha, good dpm.

BDR has weaker armor and way worse mobility, while M4 45 has way worse armor, compared to the ARL ... it forces you deeper in the 'support' role.

 

One beautiful thing about the line is that the engines are shared between the t6/t7/t8. So you can go to the 50 100 with the top engine and 2nd best gun., which makes the tank much easier to grind.


Edited by VarzA, 13 August 2017 - 03:23 PM.


Derethim #20 Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:38 PM

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I love the ARL 44, the trick with it is to not angle it, especially on it's own tier. It will bounce shells like crazy. from it's UFP and LFP.

The M4 45 made me give up on the line, it's just an awful unarmored box of steaming poop.






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