Jump to content


Well I met something new today, full HE tortoise.


  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

NUKLEAR_SLUG #1 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:03 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 28433 battles
  • 2,150
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015
Surprisingly effective being slammed every 6 seconds. Ouch.

SABAOTH #2 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:06 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 36793 battles
  • 2,914
  • [-133-] -133-
  • Member since:
    08-28-2011

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 13 August 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

Surprisingly effective being slammed every 6 seconds. Ouch.

 

Is not bad idea after all. :great:

 

I once tried a WT HE-100 with 2 drums of HE and the 150. It was stupid but fun.



Igor_BL #3 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38731 battles
  • 1,294
  • [GX] GX
  • Member since:
    06-10-2015
I caried 20ish HE shells in BlackPrince... It was really usefull when countering some other tank sidescraping. could pull permatrack and bleed hp from him...
Did it several times, especialy on french heavies (ARL and AMX. really easy to track those and do enough dmg with that small caliber HE)
Ofc, those are rare tanks that can pull that, to have good RoF and really big ammo count...

Dis4ster #4 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:13 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 27952 battles
  • 2,944
  • Member since:
    02-12-2012
Also HE does more damage.

SABAOTH #5 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:16 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 36793 battles
  • 2,914
  • [-133-] -133-
  • Member since:
    08-28-2011

View PostDis4ster, on 13 August 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Also HE does more damage.

 

I started to think this meme is actually holding some truth:

 

Tons of players between tier 5-8 shoot only HE, they don't even try to pen with AP.

 

Of course we are talking tomatoes, but I am seeing this a lot. Probably jap influence



uglycousin #6 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:17 AM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 44202 battles
  • 3,629
  • [TFUK] TFUK
  • Member since:
    09-01-2014
HE weakens the armor. You can then pen with AP easier. Don`t you know? :P

Igor_BL #7 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:26 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38731 battles
  • 1,294
  • [GX] GX
  • Member since:
    06-10-2015

View Postuglycousin, on 13 August 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

HE weakens the armor. You can then pen with AP easier. Don`t you know? :P

 

In term of historic combats, this would be more than true...
I.e. we dont have confirmed penetration of Tiger II UFP. And there were made ~500 of those. But Russians tested its armor against 122mm HE shells, with 4kg TNT charge...
They would tear off weldings, blow out  driver sprockets, ports etc... it would put it out of combat...
And that big HE shells would cause more problems due to mechanical shock, etc... shreading? (is this the word) of armor from inner side..
Especially to those late wars german tanks, cause steel used wasn't the same quality of the steel used for tigers, panters and other tanks earlier produced.

SABAOTH #8 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:29 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 36793 battles
  • 2,914
  • [-133-] -133-
  • Member since:
    08-28-2011

View PostIgor_BL, on 13 August 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

 

And that big HE shells would cause more problems due to mechanical shock, etc... shreading? (is this the word) of armor from inner side..
 

 

Spalling :)



uglycousin #9 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:36 AM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 44202 battles
  • 3,629
  • [TFUK] TFUK
  • Member since:
    09-01-2014

View PostIgor_BL, on 13 August 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

 

In term of historic combats, this would be more than true...
I.e. we dont have confirmed penetration of Tiger II UFP. And there were made ~500 of those. But Russians tested its armor against 122mm HE shells, with 4kg TNT charge...
They would tear off weldings, blow out  driver sprockets, ports etc... it would put it out of combat...
And that big HE shells would cause more problems due to mechanical shock, etc... shreading? (is this the word) of armor from inner side..
Especially to those late wars german tanks, cause steel used wasn't the same quality of the steel used for tigers, panters and other tanks earlier produced.

 

I know buddy. But here I was just poking fun at an older thread made by someone who had no idea how the game works and also ignored all sound advice with some ferocious resilience. :)

 

This is an arcade game, not an simulator.

 

...

 

Loading only HE can sometimes lead to a fun game. But this is not something reccomended.



Igor_BL #10 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:36 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38731 battles
  • 1,294
  • [GX] GX
  • Member since:
    06-10-2015

Thanks...  I was going to use that word, but spalling is the term we use concrete structures, so wasnt sure was that professional deformation or it is the right word for this too.

 

rainbow shark, yeah, i understand that, just wanted to play smart... i am bored, waiting for moto GP.


Edited by Igor_BL, 13 August 2017 - 11:38 AM.


SABAOTH #11 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:43 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 36793 battles
  • 2,914
  • [-133-] -133-
  • Member since:
    08-28-2011

View Postuglycousin, on 13 August 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

 

I know buddy. But here I was just poking fun at an older thread made by someone who had no idea how the game works and also ignored all sound advice with some ferocious resilience. :)

 

This is an arcade game, not an simulator.

 

...

 

Loading only HE can sometimes lead to a fun game. But this is not something reccomended.

 

However long time ago they wanted to introduce Havoc and armor destruction with it.

But that was years ago.

 

Block Quote

 Loading only HE can sometimes lead to a fun game. But this is not something reccomended.

 

My japanese heavies beg to have a different opinion :P

 


Edited by SABAOTH, 13 August 2017 - 11:44 AM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #12 Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:51 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 7633 battles
  • 4,014
  • [GUP] GUP
  • Member since:
    05-28-2011

View PostSABAOTH, on 13 August 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

I started to think this meme is actually holding some truth:

 

Tons of players between tier 5-8 shoot only HE, they don't even try to pen with AP.

 

Of course we are talking tomatoes, but I am seeing this a lot. Probably jap influence

Funny that.

Given that mid-low calibre HE is utterly useless.

And only really starts to shine at 14-15cm and bigger.

Of course, even at those calibres a shot hitting the wrong place will reduce you to a crying wreck as you do single/double digit damage.



Aikl #13 Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:05 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 25220 battles
  • 4,345
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    04-13-2011

View PostIgor_BL, on 13 August 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

(...)

And that big HE shells would cause more problems due to mechanical shock, etc... shreading? (is this the word) of armor from inner side..
Especially to those late wars german tanks, cause steel used wasn't the same quality of the steel used for tigers, panters and other tanks earlier produced.

 

Spalling, but the effect on the crew (aside from the psychological aspect) would be close to shredding.

 

German wartime armor is an interesting subject. Late-war armor was likely not great anyhow, but even early-mid war armor could vary a lot in quality. Resource shortage, having to rely on factories not dedicated to hardened armor and countering capped AP shells are all somewhat relevant suggestions. 



jack_timber #14 Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:11 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 32961 battles
  • 2,004
  • Member since:
    07-26-2014
Tend to use HE on SU152.... At least it will do some damage to T9 or one shot lower tiers if the range god's are looking down on me favourably:)

FluffyRedFox #15 Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:19 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 22953 battles
  • 8,275
  • Member since:
    12-05-2012

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 13 August 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

Funny that.

Given that mid-low calibre HE is utterly useless.

T-34-85M HE begs to differ :trollface:



Igor_BL #16 Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:38 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38731 battles
  • 1,294
  • [GX] GX
  • Member since:
    06-10-2015

View PostAikl, on 13 August 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

 

Spalling, but the effect on the crew (aside from the psychological aspect) would be close to shredding.

 

German wartime armor is an interesting subject. Late-war armor was likely not great anyhow, but even early-mid war armor could vary a lot in quality. Resource shortage, having to rely on factories not dedicated to hardened armor and countering capped AP shells are all somewhat relevant suggestions. 

 

yeah, they had problems with  molybdenum level.

 

+1 to t3485m HE. (t3485, kv13. etc) Fantastic HE shell...
especially in SH...



SABAOTH #17 Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:20 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 36793 battles
  • 2,914
  • [-133-] -133-
  • Member since:
    08-28-2011

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 13 August 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Funny that.

Given that mid-low calibre HE is utterly useless.

And only really starts to shine at 14-15cm and bigger.

Of course, even at those calibres a shot hitting the wrong place will reduce you to a crying wreck as you do single/double digit damage.

 

I know, but it is plenty of tanks shooting you for 12  - 75 damage (sometimes zero). I see this a lot in tier 6-8 and I wonder why in heaven you buy a Lowe or a Panther M 10 to shoot full HE, I even saw some E25 shooting JUST HE  :facepalm:

Edited by SABAOTH, 13 August 2017 - 05:20 PM.


Enforcer1975 #18 Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:04 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 20760 battles
  • 10,783
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    05-04-2014

View PostSABAOTH, on 13 August 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

 

I know, but it is plenty of tanks shooting you for 12  - 75 damage (sometimes zero). I see this a lot in tier 6-8 and I wonder why in heaven you buy a Lowe or a Panther M 10 to shoot full HE, I even saw some E25 shooting JUST HE  :facepalm:

Because 175 > 135 damage...



AliceUnchained #19 Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:21 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 38414 battles
  • 8,928
  • [322] 322
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostIgor_BL, on 13 August 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

In term of historic combats, this would be more than true...

I.e. we dont have confirmed penetration of Tiger II UFP. And there were made ~500 of those. But Russians tested its armor against 122mm HE shells, with 4kg TNT charge...
They would tear off weldings, blow out  driver sprockets, ports etc... it would put it out of combat...
And that big HE shells would cause more problems due to mechanical shock, etc... shreading? (is this the word) of armor from inner side..
Especially to those late wars german tanks, cause steel used wasn't the same quality of the steel used for tigers, panters and other tanks earlier produced.

 

What Soviets did was remove the mantlet, gun, engine, basically anything you'd normally find in an operational tank and then pepper the husk with various caliber rounds. You can hardly call that 'testing'. The HE rounds, and AP rounds, could crack open welds. Not tear off weldings or something. More importantly, the welds are not the armor. Welds cracking open says absolutely nothing about the quality of the armor, but a lot about the quality of the welds.

 

And indeed, the word you're looking for is spalling. Not at all specific to HE rounds, as AP rounds can cause spalling as well. On penetration as well as non-penetrating shots. German Tiger tanks with the L/56 could actually knock out IS tanks as the Soviets considered tempering a waste of time. I'm sure the IS crews held a much different opinion on that.

 

N.B. Not all explosive fillers were TNT.

 

N.B. II Leave out the armor quality remarks as you clearly don't know much about it.

 

View PostAikl, on 13 August 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

German wartime armor is an interesting subject. Late-war armor was likely not great anyhow, but even early-mid war armor could vary a lot in quality. Resource shortage, having to rely on factories not dedicated to hardened armor and countering capped AP shells are all somewhat relevant suggestions. 

 

It's an interesting one indeed, but there's A LOT of misinformation going around on the internet. Even late war overall quality was comparable to other nations. There are documented examinations of lower quality armor on German tanks and tank destroyers, that much is true. But there's no evidence whatsoever suggesting it was widely scaled. Igor_BL is correct that shortages in Molybdenum  and other strategic materials led to a change in armor composition, mainly an increase in Vanadium. Result being a higher carbon content, and initially serious issues with welding. 

 

There certainly was variance in armor quality, but no where near poor or generally worse than other nations. I'm currently looking to find the source for the following; as I recall reading that pre-war German armor quality and early war actually wasn't all that good. Contrary to popular belief.


Edited by AliceUnchained, 13 August 2017 - 06:38 PM.


ExclamationMark #20 Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:24 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 16775 battles
  • 3,727
  • Member since:
    04-12-2013

View PostSABAOTH, on 13 August 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

I once tried a WT HE-100 with 2 drums of HE and the 150. It was stupid but fun.

 

That was the only effective way to play with the 150mm on the WTE100 though.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users