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M103 is garbage, worst tier 9 heavy (Type 4 LUL), pls buff...

#BuffM103

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TheMarketGardener #1 Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:42 PM

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So I've owned the M103 for a very long time now, before is was even HD at all and it's my second most played tank, mainly because of how long I've owned it. It was also my first tier 9 tank. For a good amount of time I used to really like it, and even now I still want to, but as time has passed, new tanks have been added, many have been buffed (even the M103 itself has been but I'll go into more detail on that a bit later), yet the M103 just isn't as good as it used to be, to the point where it's simply just frustrating to play.

I can't quite pinpoint the exact time the M103 started to go downhill, for me it was something that happened slowly over time, little by little, patch after patch, and even after it's second "HD-fication" one of it's biggest issues still remained. Of course I'm talking about the massive joke of a turret roof it has.

 

First of all, let's compare it's main competition. The Conqueror.

 

The Conq is flat out a better tank. Outclasses it almost everywhere. Whatever the M103 can do, the Conqueror can do better 99% of the time. Vastly superior gun. Better accuracy, better aim time, way better gun handling, better DPM. Not only that, it's placed in a better turret as well. Even before they made the Conq HD it had a better turret. Smaller, better armor in general, smaller cupola that is autobounce for the majority of it and most importantly, it doesn't have the massive, EFFING, GOLF COURSE OF AN OVERMATCHABLE ROOF.

Tier 7 Russian heavies, and anything with a 120mm gun or bigger laugh at your turret armor. All they have to do is land a shell on your roof...

 

The only "real" advantage the M103 has over the Conq is better frontal hull armor, but that's just about it, and that only after it's mentioned "second HD-fication". To be fair though, it did fix an issue I also had gripes with at the time, that being you could autoaim and pen it every time the turret cheeks that could pretty easily be penetrated by anything with 225mm of penetration...

However, with the recent developments of Supertest, we got to see the newest replacement for the FV215b, the Super Conqueror. At the same time as that, WG also decided to touch on the Conqueror itself as well. In my opinion, in it's current Supertest state, the Conqueror overall is getting buffed.

 

https://thearmoredpa...-armor-changes/
https://thearmoredpa...h-ht-changes-2/


According to these, at the cost of an ever so slightly longer reload than the M103, the Conq appears to be gaining:

 

-- Even better turret armor that it doesn't really need, that being spaced armor in front of each cheek as you can see (basically the Super Conqueror turret)
-- Better upper plate

-- Better side armor

-- They're even making the stock grind easier

After seeing these I thought "Yup, this is the final nail in the coffin for the M103 if these changes go through. M103 becoming obsolete through and through". It could already go hull down better than it, even with 1 degree less gun depression, now it will be able to sidescrape better...

 

Enough of the Conq, on to the T-10, our beloved Rasha heavy that's also a medium. And a light... (Just ask Drako  :hiding:)

 

When the T-10 wasn't actually called the T-10 but instead it was the IS-8, the M103 compared quite well to it. The IS-8 was faster and more mobile with typical IS line armor layout, the M103 had the superior gun.

After the IS-8 was turned into HD and renamed to T-10, it also received a few buffs 'cuz why not you kno? Rasha is clearly UP and is in constant need of Buff (*cough* Obj. 140 getting overmatch roof removed while M103 is left to rot *cough* IS-3 overmatch roof also becoming smaller and armor buffs in general, but on  a tier "8" tank *cough*).

In any case, T-10 got disperion buffs, it's better than the M103 (so much for US gun handling amirite?) and it's aim time got reduced from something to 2.8 seconds, still worse than M103, but it used to be quite a lot more IIRC, along with a RoF buff as well, again IIRC. It also got it's turret armor buffed, so it can hull down better than it too, and pretty much since then it's been considered the best tier 9 heavy, along with the WZ-111 1-4 and Conqueror.

I won't be delving too much into any of the Superheavies (or to anything else for that matter) since that would take too long and they play too differently (not to say that the M103 is any better than them either), All I'm gonna say about them is that their worse gun handling is compensated by their lesser mobility (the slower you go the smaller your aim circle), vastly superior armor allowing greater exposure time and better trading ability thanks greater alpha damage.

 

So to wrap things up I'll be suggesting what I think it could need that will make it competitive again while trying not to make it too ridiculous. Don't count on it.

 

-For start, remove the goddamn overmatch roof by increasing the thickness of  the part ahead of the rangefinder to 51mm and make the bit between the roof and mantlet at least 230 effective on flat ground. Cupola stays the same, it's fine as it is.

-Dispersion on the move and during hull rotation should be at least on par with the T-10 and WZ-111 1-4. Having less dispersion (at 0.20, compared to the 0.18 they have) that them is a joke in my opinion...

-Finally, increase the sides to 76mm.

 

Weak turret ring and cupola remains so you can't really argue that it won't have any weakspots at all, hull front also stays the same since it can still bounce some shells as RNG dependent as it is, and lower plate is still a weakspot. It's still a massive tank and the size of it's sides are equivalent to those of a barn so it'll only be strong from the front and when hull down.

 

 

What basically triggered me to write this thread is that I've been on 90% MoE for a very long time so my recent attempts to 3 mark it, combined with my reduced patience towards WG titles and the bad state of the game in general, while still wanting to play though, along seeing it's WR curve in relation to player WR being low gave me aids and flipped the switch for me.

 

Anyways, I guess that's all. I had quite a bit more on my mind that I would've liked to mention but I didn't want to make this thread too long and too hard to write in an orderly fashion, this is also my very first thread so pls no bulli. I hope it's not too tiring to read either, even though I tried to make sure it isn't...

 

 


Edited by TheMarketGardener, 20 August 2017 - 02:43 PM.


leggasiini #2 Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:53 PM

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Type 4 is actually ok if you spam full gold HE with it, even if its frustating as heck to play (other than that its terrible but who does anything else than spam full gold HE?). And yea M103 kinda needs some love

 

I wonder if they have plans to change American top tier heavies. Their recent policy tank lines is that tier 8-10 should play similarly. However, T32, M103 and E5 are all somewhat different from each other

 

inb4 megaubermassive turret buff on m103 and E5 but hull armor nerfed into useless and gun nerfed into bad


Edited by leggasiini, 20 August 2017 - 02:53 PM.


Quintuss #3 Posted 22 August 2017 - 05:07 PM

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At least mine has cronic lowrolleritis.

 

At least only 65k more XP to elite the POS. I really struggle to find a single situation where i'd take this tank over an ST1 - sure, it is a bit more mobile but what use is that when the gun is only "average" at best and the armour a joke. If i want to trade shots with dead crew/ broken modules every peak i can just drive PTA and at least have good mobility..



GaryThomasBolton #4 Posted 22 August 2017 - 11:14 PM

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Hmm... funny because if you're saying the Conq is a far better tank all-round than the M10. You still see a lot more players using the M10 compared to the Conq. Seeing as players tend to go with the better tank for it's tier class - that doesn't really add up? The trouble with the Conq, is the same problem for most of the top tier British heavies - lacking in armour and why the line is being buffed up on it.

 

My feeling is, a lot don't want to play the top British heavies because they are too weak and why WOT is buffing them to try and get more interest going using the British top heavies. Most people just end up using the British FV 183 (gun) tank, it's the only one worth using because at least it can pack a punch - even if the armour is rubbish.


Edited by GaryThomasBolton, 22 August 2017 - 11:18 PM.


Quintuss #5 Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:17 AM

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View PostGaryThomasBolton, on 22 August 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Hmm... funny because if you're saying the Conq is a far better tank all-round than the M10. You still see a lot more players using the M10 compared to the Conq. Seeing as players tend to go with the better tank for it's tier class - that doesn't really add up? The trouble with the Conq, is the same problem for most of the top tier British heavies - lacking in armour and why the line is being buffed up on it.

 

My feeling is, a lot don't want to play the top British heavies because they are too weak and why WOT is buffing them to try and get more interest going using the British top heavies. Most people just end up using the British FV 183 (gun) tank, it's the only one worth using because at least it can pack a punch - even if the armour is rubbish.

 

It is a question o f the tank lines:

US line has a great tier 7, a "special" tier 8 (in random a bit limited due to bad pen, however  as hulldown tank even usefull on CW-level) and a tier 10 that used to be OPed and still is a force.

 

Britisch line has slow, useless turds on tier 5-7 then an acceptable hulldown tank on T8 followed by a decent tier 9 and a "special" tier 10. But as T9 isn't a Stronhold/CW tier and the tier 10 takes extreme skill to do well in the line lacks attractivity.

 

imho what M103 needs is not better armour (no need to make all tanks play the same) but relyable gunhandling - more accuracy, lower aim time, lower dispersion. I could life with the armour if the gun was making up for it. But currently the gun is simply useless: no 3x overmatch against 40mm armour (Sweden TDs) is a massive disadvantage, 400 alpha is bottom for T9 standards too and the pen isn't outstanding either (but fine by itself).

 

All one can really do with the M103 is grind it, sell it and then buy and drive a different tank with proper gun and armour.



cro001 #6 Posted 23 August 2017 - 10:09 AM

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Give it's turret roof more than 38mm of armor. ??? Profit.

Major_Gitgud #7 Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:22 AM

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View Postcro001, on 23 August 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

Give it's turret roof more than 38mm of armor. ??? Profit.

 

pretty much this, when i played it back at 2014 and now, doesnt seem any better ( im not sure if it had any armor buff, due to abscence from the game for a long time), its slow, traverse speed is crap, you cant go hulldown, because all turret roof is a weakspot, when you are not hulldown you cant angle the tank because of the hull design, even if you try to wiggle 180 - 190 pen is plenty to pen the lower plate which is huge in size as well. i probably should just man up and rebuy caravan and keep grinding for conqueror. M103 is definitelly not a keeper for me, unless it gets atleast significant turret buff and even then it wont be that easy to use it, because gun depression is lacking on this one compared to its predecessors. Anyway the only thing i like about it is the gun and thats about it.

I know that Conquerors hull isnt much better, but at least it has an actual turret armor.


Edited by Bond90, 07 September 2017 - 09:23 AM.


Jma_fighter #8 Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:11 PM

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I have researched the m103 and put that awfull t32 gun is very bad, i have to use free xp to buy the secong gun and after  and now only top engine and top gun missing.

 

The biggest problems for me with that tank is:

- the turret roof is horrendous, you cant hulldown

- the sides of hull are bad, and the front upper plate can be penned too, its better than conqueror but its not that great, so you cant sidescrape reliably and the front is not realiable.

- the second gun is ok handling, feels acurate, and from what i see from tank gg the top gun has slighty better handling, ROF and better pen, but both gunshave very bad softstats, compared to conqueror, even t10 have better soft stats witch dont make sense.

- mobility is fine even lacking the top engine, but top speed is slow, 

 

Now they should buff that tank, in the way that follows their prior counterparts (t29, t32) , just buffing the turret roof leaving only the cupola as weakspot, in that way you could have similar playstile like t 32, but now you have  worse turret and depression but much better gun  and mobility and i think that will make the tank much better to play, and its balanced, and PUT TOP SPEED 35km like t32, its insane having  so many downgrades to t32 that is not a great tank but have 2 key things good turret with -10  gun depression. the M103 is just an heavy glass cannon, and there are mediums with better armour, and the mobility lacks so glass for glass play with a leopard at least its faster and more moblile.

 



NerfTheT110E5PlebGaming #9 Posted 25 May 2018 - 07:09 AM

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I feel ya pain , playing the M103 right now and the only reason i play it is cuz i need the XP to unlock the E5.




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