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ROFL STOMPS


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General_Crisis #1 Posted 21 August 2017 - 06:48 PM

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All too often in random battles it seems to be that one side totally dominates the other, and I am talking like 15/0 to 15/5, which imo shows that one team is vastly overpowering the other.

 

How does this happen......Match Maker?



Jigabachi #2 Posted 21 August 2017 - 07:48 PM

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View PostGeneral_Crisis, on 21 August 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

How does this happen......Match Maker?

MM definitely plays a role, but the biggest problem still is the horrible playerbase, I think. Most players in this game are so bad that they don't even understand the very basics of the game and have no idea what they are doing, so the match can collapse from one second to the other, because your toptier decides to yolo.

Now add crappy balance and crappy maps... and you have a barely playable game.

In addition, the average players seem to leave the game, leaving the field for the hordes of below average players and the few above average players, which unbalances MM even more.

 

I'd love to say "but over time it reaches a balance", but these days I tend to only play a few matches before I have to ragequit to save my sanity, so that "over time" is not gonna happen for me...


Edited by Jigabachi, 21 August 2017 - 07:49 PM.


HeinrichFuhrmann #3 Posted 21 August 2017 - 07:55 PM

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I'd say it has mostly to do with lemming like behaviour. One guy rushes forward, the rest feels obligated to follow, leading to fights where one side is incredibly bad positioned, while their enemy as have multiple firing angles, cover that prevents arty fire and cover against enemys. Most players refuse to retreat and rather trade hits until they lose or win, instead of repositioning.

 

Edit: It doesn't even matter that the enemy doesn't even know more about the game. They were just lucky to end up in better positions. Happened to me a lot, until I learned to drive Panzer III j.

 


Edited by HeinrichFuhrmann, 21 August 2017 - 07:59 PM.


brumbarr #4 Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:25 PM

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15-5 isnt a roflstomps, not necesarily atleast,  15-5 is to be expected in a normal battle with no respawns. And some 15-5 battles are really close.

Noo_Noo #5 Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:29 PM

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Lots of reasons without looking at player ability. You can throw that in on top of what I say below

Maps and MM for starters. MM can put one team at an instant advantage through tanks, armour and / or firepower. Then maps. Some have a slight advantage to one side or the other. 

then there's things like team deployment. That can lead to the collapse of a flank. If the other flank doesn't push its over very quickly from there. 




 



N00BT00B #6 Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:35 PM

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brumbarrToday, 07:25 PM

15-5 isnt a roflstomps, not necesarily atleast,  15-5 is to be expected in a normal battle with no respawns. And some 15-5 battles are really close.

..cobblers, its still a 5minute hammering.
*edited*

Edited by Daxeno, 23 August 2017 - 08:00 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


Erwin_Von_Braun #7 Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:36 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 21 August 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

MM definitely plays a role, but the biggest problem still is the horrible playerbase, I think. Most players in this game are so bad that they don't even understand the very basics of the game and have no idea what they are doing, so the match can collapse from one second to the other, because your toptier decides to yolo.

Now add crappy balance and crappy maps... and you have a barely playable game.

In addition, the average players seem to leave the game, leaving the field for the hordes of below average players and the few above average players, which unbalances MM even more.

 

I'd love to say "but over time it reaches a balance", but these days I tend to only play a few matches before I have to ragequit to save my sanity, so that "over time" is not gonna happen for me...

 

You forgot one thing...............XVM Whores.

The kinda players who let third party software dictate the game for them - they see the pretty colours, look at (maybe) the win% predictor, then don't even bother trying.

Therefore it all becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I once had a game where FIVE players from my own team suicide right at the start.


 

In fact, I put it to you good sir that the XVM BS is a far greater problem in this game today than most other problems.



GeneralJock #8 Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:38 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 21 August 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

I'd love to say "but over time it reaches a balance", but these days I tend to only play a few matches before I have to ragequit to save my sanity, so that "over time" is not gonna happen for me...

 

Jig, you are a very experienced player, so this comment intrigues me. Mainly because I thought it was just noobs like me that felt like this.

As anyone can see from my stats I really am Joe average, but I know how to last more than 3 minutes in a game.

I find increasingly after just 2 - 3 games I'm sick of it. I have a great game, lose. Great game, lose. Then die in 3 minutes thanks to triple arty, team wins.

To me, it's a terminal problem that the game is just so random. It also spoils the game for me knowing that I'm spoiling it for good players.

It doesn't matter how I play, the result is just a statistical outcome.



soul3ater #9 Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:41 PM

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thank you!

 

this is how it actually is...you either get stomped or you do the stomping.

 

I am mad for not being able to do any damage esp if you're in a heavy tank like e-100 or I am mad because we get rekt.

 

bare jokes



brumbarr #10 Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:59 PM

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View PostUseless_Pathetic_Stupid, on 21 August 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

brumbarrToday, 07:25 PM

15-5 isnt a roflstomps, not necesarily atleast,  15-5 is to be expected in a normal battle with no respawns. And some 15-5 battles are really close.

..cobblers, its still a 5minute hammering.
Close, my arrse

 

a 15-5 can be really close,  a battle can be close and the score can be 2-3, then one team wins a crucial position because of the actions of 1 guy. Taking that position  shifts the battle in favour and suddenly the enemy team melts. But that fight for that position can be really close for a long time. 

A close battle is a battle that can go either way easily.

 

 



Mike_Mckay #11 Posted 22 August 2017 - 07:15 AM

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The lack of skill balancing in the MM is the main cause of this from what I can see

Yeah "bad players" can add to it, but if each team had equal numbers of "bad players" then they would be equally disadvantaged, equally likely to do a lemming train and so on. But when one team is all new players with around 5k games or less and the other team has a couple of purples, 6 greens, 4 oranges and 3 reds then trying to claim its "because of bad players" is just showing a severe case of cognitive dissonance

Even the "it will balance itself out over time" argument holds about as much water as a sieve because someone who is a green player CANT be on a team of "all reds" because they aren't one. Only reds can be on that team, so the balance of being on the winning or losing team in a roflstomp changes drastically from player to player

Its also somewhat irrelevant too, only a narcicist or stat padder would want to be on teams that are severely mismatched in their favour and I suspect a lot of people would agree that even being on an exactly equal number of winning and losing games of that type would still suck as the more preferable option is for each team to have a relatively equal chance of winning for EVERY game. That way the games are enjoyable whether you win or lose every single game. Whereas even having a winning streak of rofl stomps isn't "fun" unless you are only concerned about the winning rather than the game itself

No amount of balancing would ever completely remove a rofl stomp, but theres a huge difference between one teams tactics just being better than the others and a scenario where its akin to a premier league football team playing a sunday league team of wheelchair bound paraplegics
 

Long_Range_Sniper #12 Posted 22 August 2017 - 07:44 AM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 21 August 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

You forgot one thing...............XVM Whores.

The kinda players who let third party software dictate the game for them - they see the pretty colours, look at (maybe) the win% predictor, then don't even bother trying.

Therefore it all becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I once had a game where FIVE players from my own team suicide right at the start.


 

In fact, I put it to you good sir that the XVM BS is a far greater problem in this game today than most other problems.

 

You'd not think anyone would be this stupid, until you see the comments coming into teamchat about how the game is already lost. Then you wonder why players with tanks that would be best placed tactically in certain positions suddenly are basecamping, and a whole host of other moves that steer the game to a loss.

 

With the changes in Wn8, the number of re-rolls, and now the sheer breadth of the playerbase XVM is pretty much irrelevant. I know some forumites use it, but they tend to be the more experienced and learned ones who can tweak and adapt XVM to display only the information they want to see, or use the garage mods.

 

In general, it seems to be a crutch for poor players to excuse why they're poor. It's easier to blame colours, because the only conclusion you can draw if you blame a discrepancy in "skill" between teams is that the game is rigged against you. There will always be a discrepancy in skill, but if the game isn't rigged then it will apply equally to all players. Which means the only difference is YOU. Whether MM and map changes mean it takes longer for your skill to shine through is a different issue.

 

But if you're whining about the skill distribution of players, you're in essence whining about the game being rigged, and failing to genuinely self-reflect on your own performance. Most of the time when you actually delve into players who truly ask for advice about why they lose so often you find they don't have 100% crews as they play too many tanks, don't have sixth sense, don't work out which upgrades to go for, don't read map guides, and even some basic things like change the mouse sensitivity in sniper mode.

 

15-0 games will occur more often if you're a poor player, and the MM may create an environment for more of them with the 3/5/7 makeup, as your top tier tanks are more important. In this regard skill distribution can have an impact, but it's going to be equally applied unless you subscribe to the rigged theory. If you don't think the game is rigged then it's simple....."git gud".



Captain_Kremen0 #13 Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:18 AM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 21 August 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

 

You forgot one thing...............XVM Whores.

The kinda players who let third party software dictate the game for them - they see the pretty colours, look at (maybe) the win% predictor, then don't even bother trying.

Therefore it all becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I once had a game where FIVE players from my own team suicide right at the start.


 

In fact, I put it to you good sir that the XVM BS is a far greater problem in this game today than most other problems.

XVM doesnt cause any issues - people who BELIEVE STATS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN WINNING cause issues. In the same way that guns don't kill people; people kill people.

I put it to you that PEOPLE are ruining the game.



DracheimFlug #14 Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:22 AM

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View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 22 August 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

XVM doesnt cause any issues - people who BELIEVE STATS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN WINNING cause issues. In the same way that guns don't kill people; people kill people.

I put it to you that PEOPLE are ruining the game.

 

But people with guns kill people more efficiently. This is why guns exist. Similarly, people with XVM act irrationally and ruin games more than people without.

shishx_the_animal #15 Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:26 AM

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View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 22 August 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

XVM doesnt cause any issues

 

ROFL

Captain_Kremen0 #16 Posted 22 August 2017 - 10:01 AM

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Min

View Postshishx_the_animal, on 22 August 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

 

ROFL

Mind your head as you roll; I would not like to think of you hurting yourself because of me.

In a strict sense it doesn't - it's peoples interpretation of the info it gives that causes problems.



Noo_Noo #17 Posted 22 August 2017 - 10:05 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 22 August 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

 

15-0 games will occur more often if you're a poor player, and the MM may create an environment for more of them with the 3/5/7 makeup, as your top tier tanks are more important. In this regard skill distribution can have an impact, but it's going to be equally applied unless you subscribe to the rigged theory. If you don't think the game is rigged then it's simple....."git gud".

 

It may be equally applied over a large number of games but it isn't in that moment of one game is it? MM can and does throw teams that are clearly one sided one by either tank selection or player ability. How that happens is a completely different discussion but it does happen. 

What your team does in this situation can then swing things toward a 15-0 or perhaps a better result. Team deployment at the start of the battle for example, how these players play and how they react to things during the game. Much of it sounds easy in theory, difficult in reality (for me anyway). 

As an example lets say one team gets all the armour and all the big guns. Most likely most of these big heavily armoured tanks will go to the "heavy tank battle area" so why should the weaker team invest tanks there. Logic say they should invest more in the other flank and push that hard. If they win that flank first then a ROFL Stomp is unlikely to happen. BUT what does happen is that tanks get invested to the Heavy tank area and are blown away. The other flank doesn't push and then they're in a cross fire situation. Game over.  

 

I suggest that people watch a few games on Pilsen where this happens in a quite an obvious manner. One side clears the city area while the fields dont get pushed. 

 



shishx_the_animal #18 Posted 22 August 2017 - 10:06 AM

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View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 22 August 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

Min

Mind your head as you roll; I would not like to think of you hurting yourself because of me.

In a strict sense it doesn't - it's peoples interpretation of the info it gives that causes problems.

 

And who gives that info?


Edited by shishx_the_animal, 22 August 2017 - 10:07 AM.


Noo_Noo #19 Posted 22 August 2017 - 10:15 AM

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View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 22 August 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Min

View Postshishx_the_animal, on 22 August 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

 

ROFL

Mind your head as you roll; I would not like to think of you hurting yourself because of me.

In a strict sense it doesn't - it's peoples interpretation of the info it gives that causes problems.

 

View Postshishx_the_animal, on 22 August 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 22 August 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

Min

Mind your head as you roll; I would not like to think of you hurting yourself because of me.

In a strict sense it doesn't - it's peoples interpretation of the info it gives that causes problems.

 

And who gives that info?

 

 

LOL. A vitriolic discussion on the vitriol that XVM brings



shishx_the_animal #20 Posted 22 August 2017 - 10:18 AM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 22 August 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

 

 

 

LOL. A vitriolic discussion on the vitriol that XVM brings

 

Yeah it is funny. XVM causes no issues, it just provides you nice data. We should blame individuals on how they interpret things. Maybe implement a new reporting system?

"Report player for misinterpreting XVM which caused him into drowning his crew members prematurely because he can predict the match outcome" or something shorter...




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