Jump to content


Light tanks are borderline unplayable.


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

SandDanAdua #1 Posted 24 August 2017 - 12:28 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 11316 battles
  • 145
  • Member since:
    12-11-2016

Tier 8 tanks that play constantly in tier 10 and above have a 380 view range turret which becomes 420 with coated optics and a vent.

Meanwhile most mediums and HT of the same tier have 400 which becomes 445 with optics and vent ???

Do WG's tomato QA's even play this game ?

What's the point of playing LT when you get outspotted, outgunned and even sometimes outmanouvered by MT ???

 

Who thought light tanks in tier 8 should have 170 pen and 20 seconds reload ?

 

90% of maps are broken corrirods a la Paris and Ensk and the little that aren't you get brutally dominated by every tank of the same tier except other lights of course since they suck balls.

Light tanks of all lower tiers are even worse since they are slow, fat and can't spot anything due to even worse view range (360???)

 

Only reason to play them is for the stupid personal missions, and when i do finish those i'll be sure to sell all my LT.

/rant

 


Edited by SandDanAdua, 24 August 2017 - 12:29 AM.


laulaur #2 Posted 24 August 2017 - 12:41 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 47052 battles
  • 1,374
  • [FUSED] FUSED
  • Member since:
    08-11-2011

I also have wondered many times if those guys from WG actually play their own game....

They seem to lose contact with the reality more and more with each patch.  All we got lately in the new patches are hd rocks, new premium tanks and new tank lines that no one cares about them.



Derethim #3 Posted 24 August 2017 - 12:54 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 17775 battles
  • 1,997
  • Member since:
    04-03-2012

Agreed.

 

Light tanks are unplayable mainly for two reasons:

1. Other tanks "stealing" spot points

2. Stupid maps, like you said

 

The stealing of spot points would be an easy fix - just reduce all of the tanks's view ranges, except that of light tanks.

Times and times again I get all my points stolen by a camping TD, but he's not the one risking his game actively scouting - he's just waiting in the bush for a target to pop-up. Actually, reducing the view range of TDs will be a nice nerf to all of them, especially the likes of Scorpion G and the T67.

Another thing is - light tanks on VIII play like mediums, but with worse guns and armor. Maybe except for Sheridan and T49, but their guns are still only big, derpy shotguns.

The problem is not only VIII+ tho, I can outspot most light tanks in my T20 due to the massive view range and I HATED playing in one team with Cromwells, when I was playing the Amx 12t last year's summer - they stole all my spot points, because AMX 12t is only good for passive scouting, it's slow, cumbersome and every third hit hits both threads and the engine too.

 

The second thing is the maps - I think high-tier maps, VII+ should just be larger - I can scout fine on Stalingrad, for example, but even Stalingrad could be bigger. Corridors are fine, especially if it's combined soft cover and hard cover, like the outskirts of Ensk, for example. A little corridor here and there doesen't hurt. If you get rid of corridors, heavy tanks and some meds and TDs become unplayable. Generally tanks with heavy armor will suck if you get rid of cover. It will be like Steppes - everyone is camping behind a different rock, praying for arty not to hit them and scouts dominate. The solution to corridor maps is light tank pathsways - cramped shortcuts, shortcuts too open for slow tanks, shortcuts requiring speed to get to. Paris is the worst map ever, because there is too many predictable paths - even in a city a light tanks is a useful, if you don't know where he'll come from.

 

So the ideal way of fixing this is slightly reducing the view range of all tanks except light tanks, maybe by 10-20m and adding a lot of unexpected paths to maps like Himmel's, Ensk, Ruinberg, etc. as well as make them a little larger.

Slight changes, nothing extreme.

 

Also, remove [edited]Paris. It's the worst map in history of WoT. I'd rather play Mittengard on tier X.

 

 

 

 



SuedKAT #4 Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:01 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 12154 battles
  • 6,614
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-21-2014
LT's at higher tiers have their camo when moving and at times superior mobility, but many MT's can match them or at least come kinda close, apart for that I don't see that much reason to play a LT when you could play an MT of the same tier, well tier 8 MT's are generally a bad example but still. Was a bit optimistic when I heard that they would buff many LT's in the next patch but those buffs seem to be a mix between strange and meh and in the end a lot of the problems with LT's comes down to map design. 

NiemandXL #5 Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:05 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 37955 battles
  • 2,934
  • Member since:
    01-30-2013

Well, the super heavy supremacists that have taken over tank balancing apparently do not like light tanks and so they nerfed most of them apart from the premium lights into oblivion.

 

And of course garbage heavy-tank-only-maps like Paris or Pilsen do not help either.


Edited by NiemandXL, 24 August 2017 - 01:08 AM.


Derethim #6 Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:10 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 17775 battles
  • 1,997
  • Member since:
    04-03-2012

View PostNiemandXL, on 24 August 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

Well, the super heavy supremacists that have taken over tank balancing apparently do not like light tanks and so they nerfed most of them apart from the premium lights into oblivion.

 

And of course garbage heavy-tank-only-maps like Paris or Pilsen do not help either.

 

Paris and Pilsen.

Seriously fuk those maps... makes me want to jump out of a window every time I see the loading screen for those.

And you thought Komarin was bad.



Balc0ra #7 Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:29 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 67397 battles
  • 17,110
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

View PostDerethim, on 24 August 2017 - 12:54 AM, said:

The stealing of spot points would be an easy fix - just reduce all of the tanks's view ranges, except that of light tanks.

 

If you are spotting right next to the tanks you are spotting for. Then sure. As I have no issues honking all the assist if I go past them. Using vegetation to cover my approach. As 445m view range on a medium is useless if there is half a forest between your tanks and theirs. But it's has happened on the more open maps that one yoloes into several view range lines and you have to share it. But it's not a "constant" issue that I find it to be a problem.

 

But I still find my lights to be fun. I still don't see it as hard to get assist, even with my Chaffee that still has 428m. Only issue is trying to outspot tier 7 lights in it. Not tier 7 mediums. So some on mid tiers still needs a buff sure. And some needs buffs on other aspects then view range. As the SP1C is rendered useless on everything but spotting. As a 10+ sec reload makes him useless vs even a tier 6 light.

 

Some lights are running with a limp now vs before in terms of guns. But some are still the great bullies they always were.

 

Mid some of my mid tier lights still struggle to out flank some tanks indeed. But my tier 8 & 9 LT have no issues out dancing an MT still.


Edited by Balc0ra, 24 August 2017 - 01:44 AM.


Spurtung #8 Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:28 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 65982 battles
  • 5,900
  • [GW-UP] GW-UP
  • Member since:
    07-05-2013

Don't know what you're on about, my GF hasn't completed recon yet (45%), no vents and the VR is already at 468m

:trollface:



Solstad1069 #9 Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:54 AM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 41019 battles
  • 3,259
  • Member since:
    06-15-2013
T71 and Luchs are just fine.

Gotma #10 Posted 24 August 2017 - 07:15 AM

    Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 52489 battles
  • 271
  • [IDEAL] IDEAL
  • Member since:
    01-14-2011
Lights aren't very competitive in the current state and meta, that's true. That doesn't mean they aren't fun to play though.
T8 LTs were in fact in a good place with old scout MM, what made them very OP in a T8 SH setting.

If you get outspotted in your LT, that has amazing camo on the move and mobility, you are doing it wrong.

T9 LTs are very nice atm, so all in all it is a mixed bag over all tiers and not quite as bad as a lot of people are making it look.
LTs always had the highest skill ceiling and I don't think many players are playing them to their full potential tbh.

TankkiPoju #11 Posted 24 August 2017 - 07:40 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 21008 battles
  • 6,442
  • [-PJ-] -PJ-
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

I feel tier 5-8 light tanks are pretty good at the moment.

 

B-C 12t is supposed to be bad, but somehow I have a 64% winrate in mine.



Aikl #12 Posted 24 August 2017 - 07:48 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 26054 battles
  • 4,349
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    04-13-2011

B-C 12t is rather nice indeed. Being small and fast turns out rather useful, which is part of the reason why I never really like the Bulldog, for instance.
Would've been a likely keeper, though through nearly 150 battles I think I saw T6 tanks twice. I mean, it did fine against higher-tier tanks, but half the fun was actually penning shots when you managed to sneak in amongst unsuspecting tanks. 

 

Generally lack of carrying power is what ruins them for me. Sure it can be fun, but I hate not being able to do anything on certain maps.

 

View PostDerethim, on 24 August 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

 

Paris and Pilsen.

Seriously fuk those maps... makes me want to jump out of a window every time I see the loading screen for those.

And you thought Komarin was bad.

 

It's funny, Komarin was among the first true 'base defense maps' with long, open approaches to the base and plenty of hills and bushes for cover.

Same goes for Severogorsk, we hated it because of the corridors and the (largely) useless mid/easily defensible bases... and guess what's become the defining feature of more recent map development? :P

 


Edited by Aikl, 24 August 2017 - 07:49 AM.


NervosCuNervii #13 Posted 24 August 2017 - 08:13 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 21833 battles
  • 534
  • [D57T] D57T
  • Member since:
    08-31-2013

View PostSandDanAdua, on 24 August 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

Do WG's tomato QA's even play this game ?

 

I work in QA and have to point out that this remark is wrong.
QA has nothing to do with this kind of stuff. It's the producers that chose to implement/change stuff and the QA just makes sure that change works. The balancing is done by another team and you know pretty well about the Supertest and so on.
The only thing QA can do is raise awareness about this but it's the developers that chose to or not to change it.

DarkPacifist #14 Posted 24 August 2017 - 08:47 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 27878 battles
  • 192
  • [CR0WS] CR0WS
  • Member since:
    08-05-2013

I'm no more playing tier 8- scouts but tier 9 and 10 are quite competitive (even with their bad guns as they are not meant to deal damage anyway). Of course you don't have as much view range as mediums (that's a shame, but let's deal with it), but you still have your awesome camo while moving. If you get outspotted, it's that you weren't using bushes as you should have to (or maybe there's another light close to you with op crew or a batchat ^^).

High tier light tanks do still have their place in the metta and can do somethings in city and corridors maps. You just need to think a little bit further in how to use them.

I'm not sure whether the changes that WG intends for light tanks are good, I mean they want to buff their guns, won't it make players camp more in them? (I know that it's still to be implemented on supertest, but let's see how it goes).



qpranger #15 Posted 24 August 2017 - 08:51 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 33779 battles
  • 5,061
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-25-2013

View PostDerethim, on 24 August 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

Paris and Pilsen.

 

Paris and Pilsen at least got a smallish field area, but Stalingrad ... sigh.

Steeltank141 #16 Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:24 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 17707 battles
  • 271
  • [4STAR] 4STAR
  • Member since:
    01-26-2015

View PostDerethim, on 24 August 2017 - 12:54 AM, said:

and adding a lot of unexpected paths to maps like Himmel's, Ensk, Ruinberg, etc. as well as make them a little larger

 

That idea is quite nice if implemented well. Iam still waiting for some kind of tunnels to be implemented. Or bridges that only light tanks can use. Just to give light tank players another dimension . I mean look at how many space is in the current maps is just a no-go zone for lights. Imo it would be epic if lights got a chance for a more sneaky approach. But given the fact that wargaming is testing firepower buffs for the tier 10 lights, it is not looking like they give a crap about view range anymore. 



Derethim #17 Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:32 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 17775 battles
  • 1,997
  • Member since:
    04-03-2012

View Postqpranger, on 24 August 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

 

Paris and Pilsen at least got a smallish field area, but Stalingrad ... sigh.

 

I find Stalingrad nice, because there's a lot of sideways and streets people don't expect you to come out of, unlike Himmel's. On Paris I have to compete with 2-4 other light tanks on the same area.

Chuwt #18 Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:34 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28593 battles
  • 70
  • Member since:
    06-14-2012

As a counterpoint, there are the mid tier lights sitting somewhere invisible and punching round after round through the front plate of a normal heavy tank of the same or even higher tier....or even sitting in the open and outshooting the heavy.
I know a lot of lights cannot do that, but in practice it is the ones that can that are being played....
Personally, i think the game has got the balance wrong with lights, as with so much else, to the point that many people are now playing them as fast mediums rather than true lights. You cannot blame the players for doing somthing that the game encourages.

 



Aikl #19 Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:36 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 26054 battles
  • 4,349
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    04-13-2011

View Postqpranger, on 24 August 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

 

Paris and Pilsen at least got a smallish field area, but Stalingrad ... sigh.

 

Those fields are mostly noob traps anyway, being more a contest of "who camps the hardest" rather than anything reminiscent of actual gameplay.

 

By "noob traps" I mean that it screams for TDs that could've done well on the heavy flank to sit there and do practically nothing that matters for the outcome of the game.



shishx_the_animal #20 Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:40 AM

    Colonel

  • WGL PRO Player
  • 31224 battles
  • 3,872
  • [MEME] MEME
  • Member since:
    04-06-2013
Tier 7 and 9 lights are so amazing to play and get incredible MM. Nothing beats being top tier in the AMX 13 90 :)




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users