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Update 9.20 Feedback - New Chinese Tank Destroyers


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Kandly #1 Posted 29 August 2017 - 04:35 PM

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Commanders,

 

Please leave your feedback regarding the new Chinese TDs in Update 9.20 below.

 

Cheers,

Kandly



Akathis #2 Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:11 AM

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Chinese tds: impenetrable frontal armor and overkill alpha and penetration, from tier 8 onwards.

 

Did u even made any supertest or common test before releasing these monstruosities?


Edited by Akathis, 30 August 2017 - 11:11 AM.


TheGamingLion #3 Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:16 PM

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The T10 of this line has as much view range (390m) as some equal-tiered LIGHT TANKS.

 

I'm not stating that something is very wrong with this, but there's something very wrong with this.

Good stuff.

Full control of role balance.

+1



Kayi4ek #4 Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:23 PM

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View PostAkathis, on 30 August 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Chinese tds: impenetrable frontal armor and overkill alpha and penetration, from tier 8 onwards.

 

Did u even made any supertest or common test before releasing these monstruosities?

 

Yes, we did. You can check the Community feedback for Chinese TDs HERE.

 

View PostTheGamingLion, on 30 August 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

The T10 of this line has as much view range (390m) as some equal-tiered LIGHT TANKS.

 

I'm not stating that something is very wrong with this, but there's something very wrong with this.

Good stuff.

Full control of role balance.

+1

 

What is wrong? Light tanks has better mobility and concealment. LTs have much better potential of using their view range than WZ-113G FT. Balance.



Dr_Mokka #5 Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:37 PM

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View PostKayi4ek, on 30 August 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

What is wrong? Light tanks has better mobility and concealment. LTs have much better potential of using their view range than WZ-113G FT. Balance.

 

What a bunch of crap :teethhappy:

That TD wont have to be mobile. All this causes is that the TD, sitting somewhere useless 90% of the time with camonet and binos will always(!!!) outspot the lighttank moving around trying what it is supposed to do(spotting). 

But sure, dont admit any wrongdoing and bring in a new powercreeping TD-line at the same time as the grand battles, which are already clustered with 10+ TDs per side, so people will spend gold to skip through the grind :rolleyes:

Growing the dying cashcow new udders to milk it from as long as possible like always. At least try to not make it THIS obvious next time. Every manouver since the Defender/Chrysler disaster has been a sad joke.


Edited by McMokka, 30 August 2017 - 03:37 PM.


Kayi4ek #6 Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:55 PM

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View PostMcMokka, on 30 August 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

 

What a bunch of crap :teethhappy:

That TD wont have to be mobile. All this causes is that the TD, sitting somewhere useless 90% of the time with camonet and binos will always(!!!) outspot the lighttank moving around trying what it is supposed to do(spotting). 

But sure, dont admit any wrongdoing and bring in a new powercreeping TD-line at the same time as the grand battles, which are already clustered with 10+ TDs per side, so people will spend gold to skip through the grind :rolleyes:

Growing the dying cashcow new udders to milk it from as long as possible like always. At least try to not make it THIS obvious next time. Every manouver since the Defender/Chrysler disaster has been a sad joke.

 

As I said LT has much better potential of using his view range. You are talking only about one situation when the TD is camping in the bush. Did you meet the tank in game already? In your TX light tank? How do you know it's powercreep?

Dr_Starfart #7 Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:58 PM

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View PostKayi4ek, on 30 August 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

 

What is wrong? Light tanks has better mobility and concealment. LTs have much better potential of using their view range than WZ-113G FT. Balance.

Yeah that 0,8% worse camo while stationary than the rhm pzw really makes a huge difference for stationary spotting.



Dr_Oolen #8 Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:00 PM

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View PostKayi4ek, on 30 August 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

As I said LT has much better potential of using his view range. You are talking only about one situation when the TD is camping in the bush. Did you meet the tank in game already? In your TX light tank? How do you know it's powercreep?

 

Unlike majority of players of the game and its developers, people who actually understand the game and are good at it can tell when a tank is op or up without ever having to touch the tank in the game just by looking at its stats in a spreadsheet (oh jeez, i know certainly no players at all instantly said maus and type would be op as [edited]when the buffs leaked several months before testserver, testserver during which WG managed to buff maus even more; or certainly no one ever said t10 lights would suck [edited]). But i guess that is a concept that you probably wouldnt understand.

Edited by Dr_Oolen, 30 August 2017 - 04:03 PM.


TheGamingLion #9 Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:00 PM

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View PostKayi4ek, on 30 August 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

What is wrong? Light tanks has better mobility and concealment. LTs have much better potential of using their view range than WZ-113G FT. Balance.

 

Let's see.

The Chinese T10 TD's camouflage values are almost as good as those of T10 LTs.

It has armor, in other words will have a much easier time surviving upon being spotted, than a T10 LT.

It has a very strong gun, while the guns on T10 LTs are jokes.

It will succeed on all corridor-maps, which T10 LTs are practically useless on.

It will spot enemy vehicles just as far away as certain T10 LTs (which are supposedly in the game mainly for spotting), if not even further away due to encouraging binocular-gameplay, while being just as unspotted due to similar camo values.

But hey, T10 LTs have mobility that is fairly bottlenecked by lacking traverse speed. So I guess that's balanced.

 

When I look at quite some of your (especially recent) LTs' statistics I don't understand how you can't admit that LTs are currently not really able to perform their role. Especially considering that your other tanks' stats imply that you are able to play this game perfectly fine.


Edited by TheGamingLion, 30 August 2017 - 04:05 PM.


Kayi4ek #10 Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:39 PM

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View PostTheGamingLion, on 30 August 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

 

Let's see.

The Chinese T10 TD's camouflage values are almost as good as those of T10 LTs.

It has armor, in other words will have a much easier time surviving upon being spotted, than a T10 LT.

It has a very strong gun, while the guns on T10 LTs are jokes.

It will succeed on all corridor-maps, which T10 LTs are practically useless on.

It will spot enemy vehicles just as far away as certain T10 LTs (which are supposedly in the game mainly for spotting), if not even further away due to encouraging binocular-gameplay, while being just as unspotted due to similar camo values.

But hey, T10 LTs have mobility that is fairly bottlenecked by lacking traverse speed. So I guess that's balanced.

 

- "Almost" - LT has much better concealment on the move. And at some point (in most cases) you have to move with your TD if you want to win.

- Agree and disagree. Depends on the situation.

- Check the ST thread http://forum.worldof...mes-after-920/. I played only T-100 LT and Tier IX WZ, so I can't compare with other LTs. I'm not complaining about the guns. T-100 LT could have 320 alpha, but I can live with the 300.

- You can succeed on corridor maps, but you have to adapt your gameplay. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is possible to have sustainable results.

- Yes, that's true. But with this TD you can't afford to use same positions as LT. You can't use the landscape, the mobility, etc. + the WZ doesn't have the turret. Honestly for me, TDs like this are just free dmg in the end of the battle.

- Again I didn't try other high tier LTs than the WZ and T-100 LT. Tier IX WZ has lower mobility, but it has higher alpha and better armor. T-100 LT - no issues with traverse speed.

 

View PostTheGamingLion, on 30 August 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

When I look at quite some of your (especially recent) LTs' statistics I don't understand how you can't admit that LTs are currently not really able to perform their role. Especially considering that your other tanks' stats imply that you are able to play this game perfectly fine.

 

I'm not playing in platoons and it's not that easy to padd the WR in LT, that's true. Cause you are more depending on your team.

 

View PostDr_Oolen, on 30 August 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

 

Unlike majority of players of the game and its developers, people who actually understand the game and are good at it can tell when a tank is op or up without ever having to touch the tank in the game just by looking at its stats in a spreadsheet (oh jeez, i know certainly no players at all instantly said maus and type would be op as [edited]when the buffs leaked several months before testserver, testserver during which WG managed to buff maus even more; or certainly no one ever said t10 lights would suck [edited]). But i guess that is a concept that you probably wouldnt understand.

 

I understand your concept. But we can't make game for 0,001% of our players base.

Edited by Kayi4ek, 30 August 2017 - 04:47 PM.


Dr_Mokka #11 Posted 30 August 2017 - 05:12 PM

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View PostKayi4ek, on 30 August 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

 

[...]

I understand your concept. But we can't make game for 0,001% of our players base.

 

 

what is the intensification of a facepalm?



SandDanAdua #12 Posted 30 August 2017 - 05:27 PM

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View PostKayi4ek, on 30 August 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

As I said LT has much better potential of using his view range. You are talking only about one situation when the TD is camping in the bush. Did you meet the tank in game already? In your TX light tank? How do you know it's powercreep?

 

You seem to be from an alternative universe where TD's don't camp in the bush.

You also fail to consider that every TD' has binocular telescope which puts their view range at over 460 and negates a large chunk of the LT's camo.

And you also fail to see that due to LT's reduced HP and lack of any armor they can take only two shots before dying and in some cases they get oneshot by HE guns.



nagje #13 Posted 30 August 2017 - 09:32 PM

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Tier 1-4 are crap. No armor, low pen. Only positive is rate of fire.

swedish tanks were crap.....doesnt look like these are much better. Guess the dev team was the same for both tank trees.



Davidov68 #14 Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:09 PM

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When will they be nerfed? pls share this info before we invest in them.

Akathis #15 Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:38 PM

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Is this guy real? Or is he trolling us all hard?

 

1º. High tier LTs have around 35% concealment.

2º. Many high tier TDs (swedish, chinese, german tds for example) have waaaaay more concealment and/or view range than LTs. And their role is essentialy camping behind bushes => they have BY FAAAAAAAR the edge over LTs in a spotting contest.

3º. High tier TDs have more dpm/alpha/armor than LTs. I dont remember if TDs have more hps than LTs. But I am pretty sure LTs can not circle them easily.

4º. Take a look at LTs performance stats WG developers do have: you will understand what we are trying to explain to you.

 

Since 8.6 patch we are telling WG that it is making mistakes: accuracy buff to benefit soviet tanks => TDs reign => corridors to avoid the issue => HTs reign => premium ammo issue => armor inflation to avoid the issue => tanks are only competitive with crazy values of penetration/armor/alpha/accuracy/camo/mobility all at the same time... and guess what => POWERCREEP => inflation of buffs.

 

Tier 8 onwards chinese TDs are crazy, and you could have realized it if you had made a real common test with no premium ammo and competent players. You should not design tanks to fit the no skilled playerbase, because that way pro players can own like a boss in the same tank to that "no skilled playerbase".


Edited by Akathis, 30 August 2017 - 10:39 PM.


Steve8066 #16 Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:22 AM

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View Postnagje, on 30 August 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

Tier 1-4 are crap. No armor, low pen. Only positive is rate of fire.

swedish tanks were crap.....doesnt look like these are much better. Guess the dev team was the same for both tank trees.

 

T3 M3G-FT supposedly has 25mm of armor and yet will regularly bounce shells with a pen value of 50+ from less than 200m even when not angled. Ive even hit the gap between the gun mantlet and the tank frame and still done no damage whatsoever.

Call_me_BamBam #17 Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:30 AM

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View PostKayi4ek, on 30 August 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

 

- "Almost" - LT has much better concealment on the move. And at some point (in most cases) you have to move with your TD if you want to win.

- Agree and disagree. Depends on the situation.

- Check the ST thread http://forum.worldof...mes-after-920/. I played only T-100 LT and Tier IX WZ, so I can't compare with other LTs. I'm not complaining about the guns. T-100 LT could have 320 alpha, but I can live with the 300.

- You can succeed on corridor maps, but you have to adapt your gameplay. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is possible to have sustainable results.

- Yes, that's true. But with this TD you can't afford to use same positions as LT. You can't use the landscape, the mobility, etc. + the WZ doesn't have the turret. Honestly for me, TDs like this are just free dmg in the end of the battle.

- Again I didn't try other high tier LTs than the WZ and T-100 LT. Tier IX WZ has lower mobility, but it has higher alpha and better armor. T-100 LT - no issues with traverse speed.

 

 

I'm not playing in platoons and it's not that easy to padd the WR in LT, that's true. Cause you are more depending on your team.

 

 

I understand your concept. But we can't make game for 0,001% of our players base.

lul 

 

 

silly wg stuff .... 

 

lights sucks, maps sucks and u doin op td :)))))


Edited by CroatorumRex, 31 August 2017 - 10:31 AM.


Kayi4ek #18 Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:35 AM

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View PostAkathis, on 30 August 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

Is this guy real? Or is he trolling us all hard?

 

1º. High tier LTs have around 35% concealment.

2º. Many high tier TDs (swedish, chinese, german tds for example) have waaaaay more concealment and/or view range than LTs. And their role is essentialy camping behind bushes => they have BY FAAAAAAAR the edge over LTs in a spotting contest.

3º. High tier TDs have more dpm/alpha/armor than LTs. I dont remember if TDs have more hps than LTs. But I am pretty sure LTs can not circle them easily.

4º. Take a look at LTs performance stats WG developers do have: you will understand what we are trying to explain to you.

 

Since 8.6 patch we are telling WG that it is making mistakes: accuracy buff to benefit soviet tanks => TDs reign => corridors to avoid the issue => HTs reign => premium ammo issue => armor inflation to avoid the issue => tanks are only competitive with crazy values of penetration/armor/alpha/accuracy/camo/mobility all at the same time... and guess what => POWERCREEP => inflation of buffs.

 

Tier 8 onwards chinese TDs are crazy, and you could have realized it if you had made a real common test with no premium ammo and competent players. You should not design tanks to fit the no skilled playerbase, because that way pro players can own like a boss in the same tank to that "no skilled playerbase".

 

I got your points and I take them in account, but try to play Tier X light tanks and you will see that some of your points are valid only in specific situations.

 

Anyway we will collect your feedback and send it to the developers.



Akathis #19 Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:02 AM

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View PostKayi4ek, on 31 August 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

 

I got your points and I take them in account, but try to play Tier X light tanks and you will see that some of your points are valid only in specific situations.

 

Anyway we will collect your feedback and send it to the developers.

 

Thx, but... WG developers are professional developers, they know about the issues way better than I. They do not fix them because in some wicked way they are related to bussiness model. But I am asking myself what kind of sustainable business model is that? Did not they learn somthg about NA server debacle?

 

Btw, I am a 5 years old player and I have learnt that my feeback, our feedback, european feedback means nothing to WG. We were not asked about introduction of chinese TDs, only RU playerbase was asked. 

 

I feel sorry there is a designed person (you) to face all the criticism here (and defend the impossible), nobody deserves that. Thx anyway for your answers :honoring:



Biostud #20 Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:47 PM

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Since the introduction of tier X lt I think that light tanks have become more boring to play. I can't really put a finger on it, but maybe the top light tanks should have even better camo values, and other tank types should have reduced viewing range by 5-10%.

 At the same time the light tanks should have reduced dpm, while keeping high pen. This way the light tanks would actually be more of scout tanks than an offensive unit, but still able to give a bite when needed.

 

Also larger maps for tier X battles :)


Edited by Biostud, 31 August 2017 - 03:48 PM.





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