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Defending as a heavy on Siegfried Line


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myxiplx #1 Posted 31 August 2017 - 09:59 AM

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Hi folks,

 

I need some help, I'm generally a decent WOT player, I'll play lights, mediums, TDs, heavies (even arty sometimes), with a 52-54% winrate on them all.

 

But I absolutely suck at Siegfried Line when I'm defending in a heavy.  I either die and do hardly any damage, or survive to the end of the game... and do hardly any damage.  My last game I did 298 dmg, and was 3rd from bottom, whereas on any other map I'll be in the top 3.  For some reason I just can't work out how to get into good positions to use a heavy tank (mainly T29) effectively on this map.

 

Somebody help me please, how do you defend Siegfried Line??



clixor #2 Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:23 AM

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I think Siegried is my favorite map and always seem to do well on that map. In a heavy, defending, all you have to do is let the enemy come. Worst thing you can do is move (too) forward as you can be sniped from the sides. It also depends if there is arty, if not, then, in a good MM (T29 as toptier) you perhaps can move to either flank and work the ridgelines as long as you don't expose your hull.

 

In short, just remember that there are always someone sniping for across the field, as long as you stay on 'your' side you are relatively safe.



TankkiPoju #3 Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:35 AM

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With T29, I would aggresively go to north side ridge area and use hull down positions from there... Stop the enemy from pushing int otown from north side. Especially if there is no arty.

 

The south side of map is quite hard to defend IMHO.



Long_Range_Sniper #4 Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:39 AM

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View Postmyxiplx, on 31 August 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

Somebody help me please, how do you defend Siegfried Line??

 

I tend to go dead centre in the town. Don't go anywhere near the entrance to the city through the city gate, as you're exposed to the field and camping TD's. If you're north spawn you can get into the little square protected by buildings on three sides in the centre and really cause some pain to heavies trying to push through two of the main access points. I tend to try this if there's lots of arty. If there isn't arty then you can sit further back and use your turret and depression more. If you're south spawn then controlling those central alleys in the town without pushing too far forward and exposing yourself to enemy TD's seems to work for me. 


Edited by Long_Range_Sniper, 31 August 2017 - 10:40 AM.


HassenderZerhacker #5 Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:01 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 31 August 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

With T29, I would aggresively go to north side ridge area and use hull down positions from there... Stop the enemy from pushing int otown from north side. Especially if there is no arty.

 

The south side of map is quite hard to defend IMHO.

 

spot on about hull down tactics with tanks that have a strong turret on the north side.

 

the south is possible to defend with about 3 tanks, also great position to snipe tanks attacking middle-south.

 

if bottom tier, a T29 could also position itself hull down near the cap in the center of the city.



qpranger #6 Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:02 AM

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Just stay in town and ambush, simples.

Geno1isme #7 Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:31 AM

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Key is to analyze the lineups:

- Lots of (paper-)TDs and/or arty: Stay in the city to ideally get a significant numerical advantage while their campers rot in their now useless positions. When the enemy pushes the fields the TDs in your team can obliterate them.

- Lots of mobile tanks: Try to stop them from gaining control over the northern and southern fields. With a T29 you likely want to play the northern ridge (but beware of arty). If the attacker gets to control the fields fall back into the city.

- Lots of armor: Try to lock their heavies down at crossroads so you can attack them from different angles.

 

Basically you need to find a balance between not getting sniped and not getting completely surrounded in the city.



Bora_BOOM #8 Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:42 AM

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Although T29 is a heavy we all know its hull is nothing special hence hull-down is the best way and that northern part is a good space (if no arty).

 

If you do go into the city be careful to position yourself in a way that maximum 2 sides are available to shoot at or to be shot from. This means not only getting in streets but using corners with safe street lines - the ones that your allies got covered or are in direction of your spawn (without enemies at the end). Minimap is a key thing here. 

Heavies with slow turret traverse (T29 being one) cant afford to defend at spots that can be attacked from 3-4 lines - and Siegfried line has plenty of streets in the middle so shells fly from everywhere. Not to mention TD-s camping at the back...

 

Also I would take care of taking positions (mainly corners) where are gravel piles that can help defend your hull. There are many available on that map.

 

Edit: my impression is that team formations tend to brake apart as battle progresses. You will see more and more tanks getting into the middle locations trying to go east-west exposing themselves. Don’t go out and get exposed unless you really have to. Let the enemy make that mistake, lots of bad players just rush middle city squares.


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 31 August 2017 - 11:54 AM.


Cobra6 #9 Posted 31 August 2017 - 12:17 PM

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Use the ridges when you go to the right and left, you can do good work from there.

 

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AliceUnchained #10 Posted 31 August 2017 - 12:18 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 31 August 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

With T29, I would aggresively go to north side ridge area and use hull down positions from there... Stop the enemy from pushing int otown from north side. Especially if there is no arty.

 

The south side of map is quite hard to defend IMHO.

 

Anything with decent gun depression and I prefer to work the ridgelines as well. Sadly quite often you will find far too many thinking defending is best done from the back line.

TankkiPoju #11 Posted 31 August 2017 - 12:51 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 31 August 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

 

Anything with decent gun depression and I prefer to work the ridgelines as well. Sadly quite often you will find far too many thinking defending is best done from the back line.

 

There is no better hull armor than 20m of dirt.



Enforcer1975 #12 Posted 31 August 2017 - 01:43 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 31 August 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

Just stay in town and ambush, simples.

 

Yeah that's how you lose the game. Had team like that almost every time they just waited in town and kept north and south unguarded so the enemy had the opportunity for get into town from all sides. You don't need 15 tanks to stack up and guard 3 roads. It's funny how many players chose to stick with their corridors when they had a semi-open / open map...

qpranger #13 Posted 31 August 2017 - 01:47 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 31 August 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

 

Yeah that's how you lose the game. Had team like that almost every time they just waited in town and kept north and south unguarded so the enemy had the opportunity for get into town from all sides. You don't need 15 tanks to stack up and guard 3 roads. It's funny how many players chose to stick with their corridors when they had a semi-open / open map...

 

One sluggish heavy lurking in town as the last line of defence in case it all goes SNAFU, you know it makes perfect sense.

AliceUnchained #14 Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:22 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 31 August 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

There is no better hull armor than 20m of dirt.

 

Most seem to think best armor is 600+ of distance and preferably a building in between; if they can't see me, they can't hurt me.

kaneloon #15 Posted 31 August 2017 - 04:27 PM

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You need people in the fields. If there is no arty you can go there with a heavy. If there is arty stay in town but try to be covered or cover entrances. Once fields are lost and attackers enter town you cannot do anything ...

Lycopersicon #16 Posted 31 August 2017 - 05:01 PM

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I have very much the same problem. In the city, it seems to be impossible to find a location where you would not be a helpless prey for people who can snipe you from at least three different directions from outside the city, so whenever possible, I prefer to go outside myself even in heavies. Works fine when I have good view range or gun depression, but with a Soviet heavy, the result is usually some kind of disaster no matter what I do or do not do.

clixor #17 Posted 31 August 2017 - 05:14 PM

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View PostLycopersicon, on 31 August 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

I have very much the same problem. In the city, it seems to be impossible to find a location where you would not be a helpless prey for people who can snipe you from at least three different directions from outside the city, so whenever possible, I prefer to go outside myself even in heavies. Works fine when I have good view range or gun depression, but with a Soviet heavy, the result is usually some kind of disaster no matter what I do or do not do.

 

And you never attacked on siegfried line yourself? Once you do, go to such sniping locations and then it's pretty obvious what you CAN and CAN'T shoot from the field. All you have to do (as defender) is to stay safe and then those snipers are absolutely useless. At some point they will have to come to the ridges which should cost them a lot of HP trying to force things.

 

In short, if something is not working, the solution is not to do nothing but try to figure out WHY something is not working. Applies to other things in life as well :)



Laatikkomafia #18 Posted 31 August 2017 - 07:11 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 31 August 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

 

There is no better hull armor than 20m of dirt.

 

IS-3/7's side armor.

Geno1isme #19 Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:43 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 31 August 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

 

Most seem to think best armor is 600+ of distance and preferably a building in between; if they can't see me, they can't hurt me.

 

Nah, you got that wrong: If I can't see them, they can't hurt me. :hiding:

Browarszky #20 Posted 01 September 2017 - 02:49 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 01 September 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

 

Nah, you got that wrong: If I can't see them, they can't hurt me. :hiding:

 

You hit the nail on the head. I'm often left wondering (and smoldering) how did they manage to shoot and kill my tank. From my PoV their tank was beyond a ridge line or some other obstacle. I couldnt see their gun, but they could pen my turret easily. :amazed:

 

BTW, this is encounter replay, but it turned into a defensive battle for my team.

 

http://wotreplays.com/site/3796695#siegfried_line-browarszky-is-2


Edited by Browarszky, 01 September 2017 - 02:57 PM.





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