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is ARTY really OK as it is now?

arty spg gameplay camping

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Poll: is ARTY OK as it is now? (174 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

how would you like to see ARTY as an ELEMENT of GAMEPLAY

  1. i'd like to see ARTY FREE FRIDAY'S (for example) (17 votes [6.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.46%

  2. i'd like to have ARTY as an OPTION in GENERAL SETTINGS (60 votes [22.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.81%

  3. i'd like to LIMIT ARTY to MAX 2 per battle (31 votes [11.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.79%

  4. i'd like to NERF ARTY heavily, honestly (33 votes [12.55%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.55%

  5. i like to bring back OLDSCHOOL ARTY (pre 0.9.18) (42 votes [15.97%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.97%

  6. arty is good as it is now (34 votes [12.93%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.93%

  7. i'd like to LIMIT ARTY to MAX 1 per battle (46 votes [17.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.49%

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Statpadderer #61 Posted 20 September 2017 - 01:43 PM

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Just remove it. The base concept (being able to shoot targets without risk of reciprocal fire) is flawed.

Sirebellus #62 Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:01 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 20 September 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

 

Just making it max 1 or 2 per game with 50% of games arty free would fix it.  The only reason post 9.18 arty is okay is that there are a lot less people playing the class - super annoying when you get 3 of them and bad if you get 2 and they focus on you.

 

So, how can you force limits on tank types in a game ?

To achieve 1-2 Arty per side per game and then in only 50% of the game would require only 5% or so of the players to select an SPG

 

You could queue SPG players until a slot becomes available, but if 10% of players select an SPG then the waiting time is going to be too long - WG aren't going to have that as it will irritate people, put them off playing, and stop them spending money.
The 9.18 changes to Arty made it so that at higher tier you are very likely to lose credits even on a winning game in SPG's unless you are a Premium account holder, so I can't imagine that many 'non-paying customers' are playing high tier SPG's




 



CmdRatScabies #63 Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:12 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 20 September 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

 

So, how can you force limits on tank types in a game ?

To achieve 1-2 Arty per side per game and then in only 50% of the game would require only 5% or so of the players to select an SPG

 

You could queue SPG players until a slot becomes available, but if 10% of players select an SPG then the waiting time is going to be too long - WG aren't going to have that as it will irritate people, put them off playing, and stop them spending money.
The 9.18 changes to Arty made it so that at higher tier you are very likely to lose credits even on a winning game in SPG's unless you are a Premium account holder, so I can't imagine that many 'non-paying customers' are playing high tier SPG's

 

They'd just wait longer. Simples.  They have a limit of 2 on Ranked - what's the waiting time there? 

Arty seem a very unattractive class to play post 9.18 but there still seem to be enough to mess up games when you get 3 of them.  I think numbers dropped last time they nerfed them but numbers crept back as players got used to it or new players joined.



15JG52Brauer #64 Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:26 PM

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People are still moaning that 2 is too much in ranked , seems some things will never change - haters gonna hate, and despite having probably the easiest time with arty since just after beta people are still going to want it removed .It made me laugh when I found this comment from Ectar in an old SPG thread - back when you could get (and I know - I suffered through them, as back then I didnt really play arty, but I did in the end just to learn the ways of avoiding them etc - then found out I was just a big scumbag - but that's another story...) anyway - read this and weep, and think ourself lucky we just get 2 or 3 per game these days - you kids dont know it but you never had it so good.......   from back in 2012 courtesy of Ectar: "
  • YES, since the new MM changes we're aware of matches where you may encounter high amounts of SPG's (6 plus per side). These matches are still however rare and not the norm.
  • The problem is only really active at tier 9 and 10. It's very rare that in lower tier games you will have more than 4 arty per side.
  • A fix is being added to 8.0 to make credit generation for tier 8 arty in line with tier 10 tanks. these means tier 8 arty won't be as profitable as they are now which may discourage some players from playing them so frequently.
  • If the 8.0 fix doesn't make a noticeable difference in the rare occasions where there is 8 or more arty per side in a team, we will look into further ways to balance things out."

Personally if WG ever did remove it I would be OK as long as we got back some sort of return for the XP, credits and time etc invested in playing it, but to be honest I dont see that happening, so rather than wasting time  fighting it, you may as well learn to live with it (though I think a hardcap of 2 per battle in randoms would be OK, if it makes things better for those who still get focussed - oh and remove XVM stats to stop XVM focus as well - it should not be possible to grief the purple players just based on an external stats site,though it does make platooning with purples more fun - as I know enemey arty will focus them not me ;-) .



saturdaymaxx #65 Posted 21 September 2017 - 06:29 AM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 20 September 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Arty is mostly fine now, just some fine-tuning needed:

- Remove stun, it's a concept that just doesn't work out. All it's good for is to annoy people and generate some extra XP for arties, but it doesn't really add anything to the game as you can't really make use of stuns due to reusable medkits.

- Reduce _all_ arty HE-penetration to zero. The values are already so low that pen-hits are rare even on paper tanks, so they have become basically a complete RNG-factor. This might also motivate some people to focus the armored tanks again rather than chasing lights or waiting for WTs to get spotted the whole game.

- As compensation, increase alpha damage by 10-20% again, at least on lower calibers in high tiers (BC arties mostly)

- Optional: separate the HE ammunition into a high-alpha, medium-splashradius and a medium-alpha, high-splashradius type to add more tactical options

 

also some very good suggestions i find.

and there are lots of possibilities on how to change it in the right direction IF they wanted to...

 



saturdaymaxx #66 Posted 21 September 2017 - 06:42 AM

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View PostStatpadderer, on 20 September 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

Just remove it. The base concept (being able to shoot targets without risk of reciprocal fire) is flawed.

 

thats a true fact anyways.

but they will never remove arty.

so get over it.

its all about finding the right balance now.



ZlatanArKung #67 Posted 21 September 2017 - 06:49 AM

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I believe arty is better than ever, but still pretty bad.

saturdaymaxx #68 Posted 21 September 2017 - 06:57 AM

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View PostSirebellus, on 20 September 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

 

So, how can you force limits on tank types in a game ?

To achieve 1-2 Arty per side per game and then in only 50% of the game would require only 5% or so of the players to select an SPG

 

You could queue SPG players until a slot becomes available, but if 10% of players select an SPG then the waiting time is going to be too long - WG aren't going to have that as it will irritate people, put them off playing, and stop them spending money.

 

limiting anything is no problem at all, as any game consists of lots of limiting/balancing parameters.

and longer cue times just balance out the number of players that choose arty.

additionally let arty players pick a 2nd optional non-spg tank before queing up, which will be chosen if the waiting time exceeds a threshold. easy.

there are always lots of possibilities.

if u limit urself to only one outcome u will always only find limited solutions. 


Edited by saturdaymaxx, 21 September 2017 - 08:06 AM.


saturdaymaxx #69 Posted 21 September 2017 - 07:04 AM

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View Post15JG52Brauer, on 20 September 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

People are still moaning that 2 is too much in ranked , seems some things will never change - haters gonna hate, and despite having probably the easiest time with arty since just after beta people are still going to want it removed .It made me laugh when I found this comment from Ectar in an old SPG thread - back when you could get (and I know - I suffered through them, as back then I didnt really play arty, but I did in the end just to learn the ways of avoiding them etc - then found out I was just a big scumbag - but that's another story...) anyway - read this and weep, and think ourself lucky we just get 2 or 3 per game these days - you kids dont know it but you never had it so good.......   from back in 2012 courtesy of Ectar: "
  • YES, since the new MM changes we're aware of matches where you may encounter high amounts of SPG's (6 plus per side). These matches are still however rare and not the norm.
  • The problem is only really active at tier 9 and 10. It's very rare that in lower tier games you will have more than 4 arty per side.
  • A fix is being added to 8.0 to make credit generation for tier 8 arty in line with tier 10 tanks. these means tier 8 arty won't be as profitable as they are now which may discourage some players from playing them so frequently.
  • If the 8.0 fix doesn't make a noticeable difference in the rare occasions where there is 8 or more arty per side in a team, we will look into further ways to balance things out."

Personally if WG ever did remove it I would be OK as long as we got back some sort of return for the XP, credits and time etc invested in playing it, but to be honest I dont see that happening, so rather than wasting time  fighting it, you may as well learn to live with it (though I think a hardcap of 2 per battle in randoms would be OK, if it makes things better for those who still get focussed - oh and remove XVM stats to stop XVM focus as well - it should not be possible to grief the purple players just based on an external stats site,though it does make platooning with purples more fun - as I know enemey arty will focus them not me ;-) .

 

i really dont care how overly bad it has been 6 years ago.

we are almost 2018 and it is still crap!

that alone shows you the incompetence/ignorance of this company.

is there ANY game company that needed 6 years to balance out a highly disputable class in their game?


Edited by saturdaymaxx, 21 September 2017 - 07:09 AM.


adameitas #70 Posted 21 September 2017 - 07:19 AM

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arty cant be fixed.. it can be only removed..  atm sitaution is even worse since arty ruins this game even harder after mm nerf..

Geno1isme #71 Posted 21 September 2017 - 08:12 AM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 20 September 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

Great fun. There's you saying "you can't really make use of stuns due to reusable medkits", and others saying "I'm always permastunned". :)

 

Yeah, the point is that permastun isn't something you can rely upon, so it is pretty useless as a tactical option e.g. to decide wether to push some tank (unless you actually monitor stun->heal->stun within ~70s and hope he only has one medkit), at least as far as randoms are concerned (in clan-battles the story might be different). The other thing is that the stun does little to make a target more vulnerable to enemy fire: it doesn't reduce armor or eliminate solid cover, only the slightly reduced mobility might prevent it from retreating/angling in time. But tracking is a far more effective way to do that. Stun-Assist-Damage is more or less just an artificial XP generator for arty, the damage would be done with or without stun.

 

On the other side the stun can be very frustrating for the receiver, and repeated stuns can more or less prevent a tank from participating in battle. But again, this isn't a reliable mechanic for the arty team if one can heal the stun at any time and/or just wait for the stun to pass while hiding in cover (from direct fire).

 

In summary this is about as useful as random engine fires or ammunition explosions from self-ignition.



Asklepi0s #72 Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:44 AM

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Due to the high number of Artillery threads, we want discussions to take place in the main pinned thread here.





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