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Curious damage requirement for WN8


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_Anarchistic_ #1 Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:40 PM

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been playing a bit of jagdtiger and also Strv103b and I was surprised by my WN8 scores

 

jagdtiger 2986 ave damage 1905 WN8

Strv103B 2973 ave damage 2854 WN8

 

As the jagdtiger a lower tier I expected the results to be different and I certainly expected the STRV to be a much higher damage expected, nearer 3.5k or even 4k.  Is the Strv underperforming or is the jagdtiger actually a better tank?


Edited by _Anarchistic_, 01 September 2017 - 10:42 PM.


lord_chipmonk #2 Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:44 PM

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I've heard rumours that WN8 is rather messed up at the moment. 

Junglist_ #3 Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:51 PM

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WN8 doesn't care only about damage. Google "wn8 formula" and see for yourself.

_Anarchistic_ #4 Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:59 PM

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View PostJunglist_, on 01 September 2017 - 10:51 PM, said:

WN8 doesn't care only about damage. Google "wn8 formula" and see for yourself.

 

​I have read it, got totally confused but it does seem to emphasis damage most, also expected damage for Jagdtiger 1719    and Strv 2153.4 hence my query

 

I see he sources info from Vbaddict, perhaps now that is/has been stopped the figures are no longer updating?

 



lord_chipmonk #5 Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:01 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 01 September 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

​I have read it, got totally confused but it does seem to emphasis damage most, also expected damage for Jagdtiger 1719    and Strv 2153.4 hence my query

 

I see he sources info from Vbaddict, perhaps now that is/has been stopped the figures are no longer updating?

 

Don't know the details, but again I have heard that the reliability of WN8 is not what it once was. 



bstb3 #6 Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:02 PM

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According to Wotlabs you avg 2795 on the Strv103B and 2305 on the Jagdtiger, with WN8 values of 2420 and 2347 respectively. Given the expected damage uplift between tier 9 and 10, this all looks reasonable. Wotzilla comes up with very similar numbers. 

 

http://wotlabs.net/e...r/_Anarchistic_

http://www.wotzilla....s/_Anarchistic_

 

Maybe the source of your info is messed up? Is it a mod, or a website? Regardless WN8 is pretty iffy now anyway, but at least in this case it still looks ok with the correct numbers applied. 

 

edit - ah I see its vbaddict. Can only assume something is goofed with it, then.


Edited by bstb3, 01 September 2017 - 11:05 PM.


_Anarchistic_ #7 Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:05 PM

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View Postbstb3, on 01 September 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

According to Wotlabs you avg 2795 on the Strv103B and 2305 on the Jagdtiger, with WN8 values of 2420 and 2347 respectively. Given the expected damage uplift between tier 9 and 10, this all looks reasonable. Wotzilla comes up with very similar numbers. 

 

http://wotlabs.net/e...r/_Anarchistic_

http://www.wotzilla....s/_Anarchistic_

 

Maybe the source of your info is messed up? Is it a mod, or a website? Regardless WN8 is pretty iffy now anyway, but at least in this case it still looks ok with the correct numbers applied. 

 

it was my session stats for those vehicles not my overall stats, trying to do TD15/4 hence use of strv and just playing jagdtiger in between

Edited by _Anarchistic_, 01 September 2017 - 11:06 PM.


bstb3 #8 Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:07 PM

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Short term winrates can mess it up, were you winning lots in the Strv and losing lots in the JT?

_Anarchistic_ #9 Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:11 PM

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View Postbstb3, on 01 September 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

Short term winrates can mess it up, were you winning lots in the Strv and losing lots in the JT?

 

​strv 10/14 wins  jagdtiger 3/5 wins  a lot more kills in strv tho, ave 4 per game as I was really trying to make sure I got the mission done with honours

bstb3 #10 Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:17 PM

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Hm, well that would explain why the STRV was so high, but the JT still seems low on that dmg and win rate. Probably not worth worrying over, just blame Trump / North Korea / Putin and move on. 

XKeyscore #11 Posted 02 September 2017 - 02:26 AM

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They changed the expected dmg values, which are the most important stats for WN8 calculation, some time ago. 

They used to calculate specific values for every tank depending on the overall performance. Now they just have one value for each class and tier. 

In practice: they expect you to deal the same dmg in the 121 like you do in the Obj.140 or 907...the same damage in the cearnavon and Defender.

 

The high WN8 is more an indicator of the performance of the Tank in relation of its Class/Tier counterparts. 

So your Jagdtiger performance is more proving that the Tank itself is a really good T9 TD comparing to the others and not necessary a proof that you are a good player.

 

thats just how the new WN8 works, play the OP tanks, avoid the bad ones and become purple



Baldrickk #12 Posted 02 September 2017 - 06:51 AM

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View PostXKeyscore, on 02 September 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

They changed the expected dmg values, which are the most important stats for WN8 calculation, some time ago. 

They used to calculate specific values for every tank depending on the overall performance. Now they just have one value for each class and tier. 

In practice: they expect you to deal the same dmg in the 121 like you do in the Obj.140 or 907...the same damage in the cearnavon and Defender.

 

The high WN8 is more an indicator of the performance of the Tank in relation of its Class/Tier counterparts. 

So your Jagdtiger performance is more proving that the Tank itself is a really good T9 TD comparing to the others and not necessary a proof that you are a good player.

 

thats just how the new WN8 works, play the OP tanks, avoid the bad ones and become purple

Yep. It was prooving too much work to make expected values for each tank all the time. 

 

So instead of automate the process, they decided to devalue the metric instead.

 

As someone who doesn't  pad in op tanks, I lost almost 100 WN8. 

To put that in perspective of how big a change from the old that is; I would need to afk for roughly 1350 battles to get the same result. 


Edited by Baldrickk, 02 September 2017 - 07:03 AM.


jabster #13 Posted 02 September 2017 - 09:20 AM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 02 September 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

Yep. It was prooving too much work to make expected values for each tank all the time. 

 

So instead of automate the process, they decided to devalue the metric instead.

 

As someone who doesn't  pad in op tanks, I lost almost 100 WN8. 

To put that in perspective of how big a change from the old that is; I would need to afk for roughly 1350 battles to get the same result. 

 

I get the impression that those behind WNx have just lost interest in it especially considering all the extra work required for making sure that changes to lights and arty didn't 'pollute' the values. After all WN9 has been in the workings for what two years?

Baldrickk #14 Posted 02 September 2017 - 11:19 AM

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View Postjabster, on 02 September 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

 

I get the impression that those behind WNx have just lost interest in it especially considering all the extra work required for making sure that changes to lights and arty didn't 'pollute' the values. After all WN9 has been in the workings for what two years?

WN9 has been ready for a year and a half, but no one took it up.  Nixon (who developed it) send to have quit WOT now or at least the forums.  But I'm not too surprised.  Putting in all that effort to make something better and then no one uses it?






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