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A good mid-tier player and total bot in high tiers


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thestaggy #1 Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:48 PM

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Recently I've started a raft of new lines and find myself with several tier 5 - 7 tanks. My performances in these tanks have been really good and I am frequently among the top-3 on my teams. Win rates range from 53 - 60%+.

 

Then I climb in to my T-54; Centurion 7/1 and IS-7 and I play like a bot. All 3 tanks have sub-48% win rates and even when I play really well I lose more often than not. I just can't figure it out.

 

My recent return to the mid-tiers, when compared to my earlier tanks, clearly shows that I have learnt a lot about the game and yet it is bot-mode when I play tier 9 and 10.

 

Why suddenly a massive dip in performance in the top-tiers? What changes?


Edited by thestaggy, 02 September 2017 - 07:50 PM.


AngelofAwe #2 Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:53 PM

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More experienced players, more experienced crews, higher pen, faster aiming and higher alpha guns etc.

In lower tiers you'll still face a larger amount of inexperienced players with crews that have no crew skills or are even below 100% effectiveness. Probably many of them don't even have elited tanks or the right equipment if any on their low tier tanks.
All that changes to some degree in the higher tiers which means every mistake you make is much more likely to get punished.

The meta is also different. Less of random chicken crossing open ground and more concentrated aggressiveness in important chokepoints. People know where you will be and will not expose their tanks for free quite as often.

Edited by AngelofAwe, 02 September 2017 - 07:55 PM.


Pansenmann #3 Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:53 PM

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you are not alone mate.

 

I also suck at tier 10.

my tier 8 and 9's are like a rollercoaster in regards to winrate too :)

find yourself having more fun playing tier 7? then drive that.

there is no "need" to get to tier 10 at any cost

unless you plan to do clanwars etc.

 

When I struggle with a tank, I look it up on tanks.gg to get better knowledge of weak points,

look for helpful youtube videos and try not to get myself surrounded, as I more than often do :child:



qpranger #4 Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:59 PM

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I play like a boss at any tier.

Liviguy #5 Posted 02 September 2017 - 08:01 PM

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It is harder to influence the game as you go up the tiers, it is much easier to destroy 3,4,5+ tanks at mid tiers than at higher tiers, therefore you are more reliant on your teams performance.

thestaggy #6 Posted 02 September 2017 - 08:05 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 02 September 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

The meta is also different. Less of random chicken crossing open ground and more concentrated aggressiveness in important chokepoints. People know where you will be and will not expose their tanks for free quite as often.

 

This is likely it.

With the new tanks I've been playing at mid tiers I haven't had a significant advantage. For example, my Skoda T24 was a 75% crew and the T25 was started with a 90% crew with some skills and fully stock. I feel I do however have an edge in map knowledge in most battles. Then in the top tiers it changes as I suddenly become the one that is being outsmarted. My IS-7 crew is 3.5 skills including BIA so I don't have a terrible crew, so they edge is as you say, they know where I will likely be.

 

And if I am honest, the damage at tiers 9 and 10 scares me. I know what Jaegeroo or FV will do to me and I don't want to run in to one of the autoloading meds without sufficent support, so maybe I am also too passive and this allows my enemies to gain the edge even before we engage.

 

View PostLiviguy, on 02 September 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

It is harder to influence the game as you go up the tiers, it is much easier to destroy 3,4,5+ tanks at mid tiers than at higher tiers, therefore you are more reliant on your teams performance.

 

Valid as well. I can quite easily solo an IS in my Bromwell but another story trying to take an E100/Maus/Type 5/E5 out by yourself in a Cent 7/1.


Edited by thestaggy, 02 September 2017 - 08:07 PM.


JocMeister #7 Posted 02 September 2017 - 08:54 PM

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View Postthestaggy, on 02 September 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Recently I've started a raft of new lines and find myself with several tier 5 - 7 tanks. My performances in these tanks have been really good and I am frequently among the top-3 on my teams. Win rates range from 53 - 60%+.

 

Then I climb in to my T-54; Centurion 7/1 and IS-7 and I play like a bot. All 3 tanks have sub-48% win rates and even when I play really well I lose more often than not. I just can't figure it out.

 

My recent return to the mid-tiers, when compared to my earlier tanks, clearly shows that I have learnt a lot about the game and yet it is bot-mode when I play tier 9 and 10.

 

Why suddenly a massive dip in performance in the top-tiers? What changes?

 

Cant really help you with an explanation. Personally I do pretty well at T9 but I´m a total pancake at TX. 

 

TX is just a different game from the rest of WoT. One mistake and you are pretty much back to garage. 



tajj7 #8 Posted 02 September 2017 - 09:05 PM

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Tier 5 or 6 etc you can have good games by basically just dodging.  The crap aim times, dispersion and poor players means you can basically win so made trades without losing much HP cos other players will just miss and miss. Add in some view range which stupidly OP at those tiers, a little situational awareness and you are already better than 90%!of the people you meet. 

 

Such tricks dont work at higher tiers, contrary to belief players are better and more experienced there, I don't use xvm but I do watch QB from time to time who does use XVM and you see the contrast when he drops down you go from most players in a game being orange, yellow and green to pretty much every player being red. 



PowJay #9 Posted 02 September 2017 - 09:24 PM

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Welcome to the club. Up to tier VI and VII I can- and do- carry matches from time to time. At tier VIII I start to struggle in most of my vehicles. I can do enough to just about maintain positive WRs in some of my vehicles, but shine? Most of the time that's a no, I'm afraid.

 

At least one of the positive WRs in my tier VIIIs seems to be more luck than performance, and I can't quite understand the very good WR in the Panther II with that Wn8


 

I am still strong in TDs but, apart from (perhaps) finding ONE tank that clicks with me, the main reason I keep high tiers is for missions- and to kill other high tier for Expert badges.



GaryThomasBolton #10 Posted 02 September 2017 - 09:37 PM

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View Postthestaggy, on 02 September 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

 

And if I am honest, the damage at tiers 9 and 10 scares me. I know what Jaegeroo or FV will do to me and I don't want to run in to one of the autoloading meds without sufficent support, so maybe I am also too passive and this allows my enemies to gain the edge even before we engage.

 

Yep, that is pretty much the same with me when playing in a tier x tank. I'm far more cautious - than if playing a tier x match in my premium t8 tank. As a result of that I tend to do better in my tier 8 premium fighting matches with tier x tanks, than I do in any of my tier 10 tanks. Maybe because I'm playing for credits in my premium and not really being cautious at all. I'll just play same way as I do in tier 8 matches.

japtank #11 Posted 02 September 2017 - 09:45 PM

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I dare to say that it all boils down to a different mindset more than difference in skills.

Of course, experience is important, knowledge of the maps, crews and whatnot, but I don't see all of that as the main difference.

At lower tiers, people play to have tanks shooting at each other and that's it.

At tier X, people (at least the higher ranked) play for stats (also known as 'e-peen;) and learn not to put themselves at risk.

They don't care about fun, what only matters is being (or seeming to be) better than the guy in front.

 

I remember a stream with Foch where he clearly stated he didn't give a damn about fun, or about the game for that matter.

All he was interested in was winning, in a competition sense.

 

It's ok, to each his own I guess, but in my opinion it often turn tier X in boring campfests where you only win by taking advantage of others' mistakes.

And others' also include your own team, which is wise to use as a meatshield to score the more points possible.

 

That's the reason why I like lower tiers better: I can charge if I see any opportunity.

If I die, gg to the opposite team, I got a garage full of other tanks to play with.

If I succeed, I enjoy a wonderful moment of epicness.

 

That's the spirit :izmena:



AngelofAwe #12 Posted 02 September 2017 - 09:49 PM

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View PostGaryThomasBolton, on 02 September 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

 

Yep, that is pretty much the same with me when playing in a tier x tank. I'm far more cautious - than if playing a tier x match in my premium t8 tank.

 

This is an interesting statement as it's the almost the opposite of me. I'm more aggressive in TX because players are more predictable and my armor is more reliable and consistent.
My tank is also better in every aspect, it moves and responds faster, it aims and fires faster and more accurately etc. so it feels like I have much more control of the events and situation of the battle.
Plus in a TX tank I find it difficult to put myself in a situation where I have no options for dealing with any threat I may encounter, while a lower tier tank can most definitely struggle against what it runs into.

lord_chipmonk #13 Posted 02 September 2017 - 09:57 PM

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I know the feeling. For me, a big change comes with tier 10 games specifically. I just don't feel confident at that tier. Ah well, More practice I guess. 

ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 02 September 2017 - 10:06 PM

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There is a slightly different meta in T9-10 compared to sub T8.

Which is, in general, slower (since tanks take comparable longer time to die) and more based around trading good, shaving off hp and more strategical gameplay while T6 to T8 is faster, more chaotic and more about numbers advantage (since the tanks can kill each other much faster).

ZlatanArKung #15 Posted 02 September 2017 - 10:09 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 02 September 2017 - 09:05 PM, said:

Tier 5 or 6 etc you can have good games by basically just dodging.  The crap aim times, dispersion and poor players means you can basically win so made trades without losing much HP cos other players will just miss and miss. Add in some view range which stupidly OP at those tiers, a little situational awareness and you are already better than 90%!of the people you meet. 

 

Such tricks dont work at higher tiers, contrary to belief players are better and more experienced there, I don't use xvm but I do watch QB from time to time who does use XVM and you see the contrast when he drops down you go from most players in a game being orange, yellow and green to pretty much every player being red. 

 

XVM colour is related to average tier played.

 

A guy with 49% WR in T6 will have a worse colour then a 49% WR player at T10. Since damage gives more XVM points at T10 then at T6.



AngelofAwe #16 Posted 02 September 2017 - 10:17 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 02 September 2017 - 11:09 PM, said:

 

XVM colour is related to average tier played.

 

A guy with 49% WR in T6 will have a worse colour then a 49% WR player at T10. Since damage gives more XVM points at T10 then at T6.

 

Not really the case considering my 4 highest WN8 tanks (discounting 1 game played M60) are tier 5, 5, 6 and 7.
My t1 is also my 6th highest WN8 tank.

Edit: Hmm but I guess my WR at lower tiers is higher too so fair enough.

Edited by AngelofAwe, 02 September 2017 - 10:18 PM.


tajj7 #17 Posted 03 September 2017 - 08:56 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 02 September 2017 - 09:09 PM, said:

 

XVM colour is related to average tier played.

 

A guy with 49% WR in T6 will have a worse colour then a 49% WR player at T10. Since damage gives more XVM points at T10 then at T6.

 

It's related to tank expected damage, now class/tier expected damage plus kills and spots factor into the equation. So it doesn't matter if you get 1k damage in a tier 10 or 200 damage in a tier 5, the wn8 will be about the same. 

 

There are just more bad players at lower tiers and less experienced players. 



Hellfoxe #18 Posted 03 September 2017 - 09:01 AM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 02 September 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

More experienced players, more experienced crews, higher pen, faster aiming and higher alpha guns etc.

In lower tiers you'll still face a larger amount of inexperienced players with crews that have no crew skills or are even below 100% effectiveness. Probably many of them don't even have elited tanks or the right equipment if any on their low tier tanks.
All that changes to some degree in the higher tiers which means every mistake you make is much more likely to get punished.

The meta is also different. Less of random chicken crossing open ground and more concentrated aggressiveness in important chokepoints. People know where you will be and will not expose their tanks for free quite as often.

 

In higher tiers you encounter more gold then lower tiers and using minimap to counter any attack on they left/right side.

samuelx43a #19 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:13 AM

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For me it depends what tank I'm playing. For instance, if you check my P2 stats, I somehow got excelent results in it. However, I'm enjoying tier IX because there are so many tanks I want.

My T-54 with the sniper gun is a joy to use, but it eats creds worse than having my fav pizza.

However, I recently bought a tank at T5, the vk leo, and it is a joy to play with the 30 mil, I also get very good dmg games in it.(got 1.5k yesterday)



ZlatanArKung #20 Posted 03 September 2017 - 01:55 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 03 September 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

 

It's related to tank expected damage, now class/tier expected damage plus kills and spots factor into the equation. So it doesn't matter if you get 1k damage in a tier 10 or 200 damage in a tier 5, the wn8 will be about the same. 

 

There are just more bad players at lower tiers and less experienced players. 

 

Tier is involved in damage expectancy.

Doing 100% of HP in T5 yields worse WN8 then doing 100% of hp at T10.


Edited by ZlatanArKung, 03 September 2017 - 01:56 PM.





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