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Idea - Weakspot solution for problematic tanks

Weakspots

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Vanythe #1 Posted 03 September 2017 - 04:39 AM

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After reading a topic about tank weakspots and how WG is trying to balance this by either buffing or nerfing the cupolas and mini-turrets on tanks, I've decided to make this thread since this buffing-nerfing never really balances anything since the cupola either becomes unpenetrable or the exploitable sweet spot to effortlessly defeat certain tanks. I believe that there is a better solution - Critical and Non Critical weakspots.

 

The current problem in the game is that a whole tank can get destroyed by exploiting the mini-turrets and cupolas on the hull or the main turret which is not only ridiculous but highly unrealistic as well. A tank should not explode just because it got shot a few times in the mini-turret or the cupola on top of the main turret.

 

Now, on to the explanation:

Critical Weakspot would be a weakspot which can be exploited like now, but in a sensible way. Example of this would be the machine gun ports on the Tiger, Churchill and similar tanks since realistically, there is no armor behind that machine gun port and the projectile can easily get inside the tank through that weakspot. The way critical weakspots would work is exactly as they do now - they damage the entire tank and the tank loses it's HP per shot normally. Critical weakspots can be guarded by side-scrapping and positioning the tank to incite a bounce.

 

Non-critical Weakspot would be certain cupolas and mini-turrets. The way these would work is that each can only be damaged for a certain amount of total hull points of the tank, say, 10% of the total HP if it gets penned, however, once it gets destroyed, the tank no longer loses HP when the Non-critical Weakspot gets shot at thus preventing destruction of the tank and inciting strategy and flanking to defeat the said tank. Even though the weakspot is non-critical, since a crew member is inside, once the weakspot gets penned or destroyed, there is a higher chance to injure whichever crew member resides in it thus inciting the tank driver to still try and guard the non-critical weakspot.

 

Please feel free to comment and share your opinion.


Edited by Vanythe, 03 September 2017 - 08:15 AM.


250swb #2 Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:43 AM

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Explain why it is unrealistic for a tank to explode if a shot goes through the cupola? The first thing it would do is take the Commanders head off, and then the force wave of the explosion would travel inside the tank setting the ammunition off and turning the crew to jelly, and for good measure metal fragments would ricochet around the inside causing further damage and killing everybody not already dead. What is unrealistic is that a tank in WOT can be shot so many times in weakspots like cupolas before they are destroyed, real life would be more like one penetrating shot and the tank is dead.

Edited by 250swb, 03 September 2017 - 06:46 AM.


Homer_J #3 Posted 03 September 2017 - 07:54 AM

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View PostVanythe, on 03 September 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

 

Please feel free to comment and share your opinion.

 

Far too complicated for WoT.  Maybe try your suggestion on another game.



Vanythe #4 Posted 03 September 2017 - 08:10 AM

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View Post250swb, on 03 September 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Explain why it is unrealistic for a tank to explode if a shot goes through the cupola? The first thing it would do is take the Commanders head off, and then the force wave of the explosion would travel inside the tank setting the ammunition off and turning the crew to jelly, and for good measure metal fragments would ricochet around the inside causing further damage and killing everybody not already dead. What is unrealistic is that a tank in WOT can be shot so many times in weakspots like cupolas before they are destroyed, real life would be more like one penetrating shot and the tank is dead.

 

I am not suggesting full on realism like that, just a change of the game mechanics because It's hilarious in a bad way that a tank such as the KV-5 can be destroyed in its entirety by shooting the radio operator's mini-turret.

AliceUnchained #5 Posted 03 September 2017 - 08:48 AM

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View Post250swb, on 03 September 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Explain why it is unrealistic for a tank to explode if a shot goes through the cupola? The first thing it would do is take the Commanders head off, and then the force wave of the explosion would travel inside the tank setting the ammunition off and turning the crew to jelly, and for good measure metal fragments would ricochet around the inside causing further damage and killing everybody not already dead. What is unrealistic is that a tank in WOT can be shot so many times in weakspots like cupolas before they are destroyed, real life would be more like one penetrating shot and the tank is dead.

 

Yeah, how about no? There would be no explosion as the APHE round would pass clean through the cupola most likely, and any schockwave at the top of the turret really isn't going to set off any ammunition or turn the crew into jelly. Hits on the cupola really wouldn't result in the devastation you describe here.

jabster #6 Posted 03 September 2017 - 09:54 AM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 03 September 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

 

Yeah, how about no? There would be no explosion as the APHE round would pass clean through the cupola most likely, and any schockwave at the top of the turret really isn't going to set off any ammunition or turn the crew into jelly. Hits on the cupola really wouldn't result in the devastation you describe here.

 

There is some account, I'm a bit hazy on the details, of an early production Tiger being hit in the cupola with the result that it was ripped off the turret roof but no the tank didn't explode for magical reasons.



SABAOTH #7 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:13 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 03 September 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

 

Far too complicated for WoT.  Maybe try your suggestion on another game.

 

There was a game that used this concept of "hardpoints" that drained the HP pool until destroyed then nothing.

Jigabachi #8 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:15 AM

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Interesting idea, but it would require to rebalance the entire game - including maps.
Otherwise heavy tanks would get even more powerful.

CaptainThunderWalker #9 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:18 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 03 September 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

Interesting idea, but it would require to rebalance the entire game - including maps.
Otherwise heavy tanks would get even more powerful.

 

What the heck are you talking about. We need a rebalanced game - including maps - even now! :playing:

Jigabachi #10 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:24 AM

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View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 03 September 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

What the heck are you talking about. We need a rebalanced game - including maps - even now! :playing:

Yeah, but that will never happen, so every idea based on that is futile.


Edited by Jigabachi, 03 September 2017 - 10:25 AM.


Baldrickk #11 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:31 AM

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This is one of the (smaller) reasons why AW failed.

Weakspots hits did less damage, so when you were up against a tougher tank that you couldn't damage frontally, and had to hit weakspots, your tank did half damage to the stronger tank, while the stronger tank could still do full damage to you.

At least that's how it was explained to me.

lord_chipmonk #12 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:39 AM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 03 September 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

At least that's how it was explained to me.

 

Yep. To be honest, it was alright, at least IMO. AW had far bigger problems. 



Baldrickk #13 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:42 AM

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View Postlord_chipmonk, on 03 September 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

 

Yep. To be honest, it was alright, at least IMO. AW had far bigger problems. 

I did say it was one of the smaller problems ;):P

I never really played it much, my old rig could play all the Crysis/Far Cry games maxed out with no problem but lagged hard playing AW.



250swb #14 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:45 AM

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View Postjabster, on 03 September 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

 

There is some account, I'm a bit hazy on the details, of an early production Tiger being hit in the cupola with the result that it was ripped off the turret roof but no the tank didn't explode for magical reasons.

 

 

Yes, once upon a time one thing happened, interpolate everything else from that one thing.



AliceUnchained #15 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:48 AM

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View Postjabster, on 03 September 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

There is some account, I'm a bit hazy on the details, of an early production Tiger being hit in the cupola with the result that it was ripped off the turret roof but no the tank didn't explode for magical reasons.

 

Ah? Will have to look for that one. I've seen plenty of photo's of penetrations, partial penetrations, vehicles ripped apart, etc, but don't recall seeing one showing this or reading about it. Cupola being ripped off, even partially, (or the round deflecting) seems quite plausible.

 

View Post250swb, on 03 September 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

Yes, once upon a time one thing happened, interpolate everything else from that one thing.

 

Then again, do you have any account of a cupola hit setting off ammunition inside the vehicle? Even a single one?

 

 

 


Edited by AliceUnchained, 03 September 2017 - 10:49 AM.


jabster #16 Posted 03 September 2017 - 11:18 AM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 03 September 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

 

Ah? Will have to look for that one. I've seen plenty of photo's of penetrations, partial penetrations, vehicles ripped apart, etc, but don't recall seeing one showing this or reading about it. Cupola being ripped off, even partially, (or the round deflecting) seems quite plausible.

 

 

I think it was part of a discussion about why later models had the cupola more firmly attached. I'll see if I can dig out the link.

 

Edt: As it's the internet read with caution.

 

http://tiger1.info/EN/Base-ring-first-cupola.html


Edited by jabster, 03 September 2017 - 11:28 AM.


Boo_Bee #17 Posted 03 September 2017 - 11:49 AM

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Sigh. Usual replies at the beginning of the post. Jeez. Does people TRYING to make suggestions mean anything at all? This is indeed a salty forum. (And now I wait for the trolls).

DracheimFlug #18 Posted 03 September 2017 - 12:06 PM

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View Post250swb, on 03 September 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Explain why it is unrealistic for a tank to explode if a shot goes through the cupola? The first thing it would do is take the Commanders head off, and then the force wave of the explosion would travel inside the tank setting the ammunition off and turning the crew to jelly, and for good measure metal fragments would ricochet around the inside causing further damage and killing everybody not already dead. What is unrealistic is that a tank in WOT can be shot so many times in weakspots like cupolas before they are destroyed, real life would be more like one penetrating shot and the tank is dead.

 

Why, exactly, would the shell fragments make a right angle turn downwards rather than continue travelling in a straight line? This is also a question regarding the 'force wave of the explosion' which for armor piercing shells is not the same as for HE.

 

It is of course possible to set of the ammunition from a shell to anywhere, but that does not make it an equal likelihood regardless of where the tank is hit, and frankly there are not a lot of tanks hit in cupolas at all. No RL tank commander would ever aim for the cupola any more than any soldier would aim for someone's ear. You save trick shots for exhibition grounds, not for combat.



Jigabachi #19 Posted 03 September 2017 - 12:10 PM

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View PostBoo_Bee, on 03 September 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Sigh. Usual replies at the beginning of the post. Jeez. Does people TRYING to make suggestions mean anything at all? This is indeed a salty forum.

What exactly is your problem? The idea is being discussed.

 



jabster #20 Posted 03 September 2017 - 12:16 PM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 03 September 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

 

Why, exactly, would the shell fragments make a right angle turn downwards rather than continue travelling in a straight line? This is also a question regarding the 'force wave of the explosion' which for armor piercing shells is not the same as for HE.

 

It is of course possible to set of the ammunition from a shell to anywhere, but that does not make it an equal likelihood regardless of where the tank is hit, and frankly there are not a lot of tanks hit in cupolas at all. No RL tank commander would ever aim for the cupola any more than any soldier would aim for someone's ear. You save trick shots for exhibition grounds, not for combat.

 

There are accounts from the Eastern Front where tanks were targeted (by anti-tank weapons) at the likes of vision ports, including cupolas, which I beleive comes down to it if you can't penetrate it try and blind it.

 

As for the OP, I see where they're coming from but I just don't see what this really adds to the game.







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