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Aim Time.


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Axelfoley666 #1 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:29 AM

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What is with aim times? What do they actually mean? I have pulled up into a fire position in a vehicle with a fast aim time i.e.2 or 3 secs and the reticule sometimes just seems to sit at max for several seconds before it actually starts to shrink. So could someone please explain the mechanic of this to me.

Baldrickk #2 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:35 AM

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The aim time is the time taken for the reticule to shrink by 2/3.

The 'unshrinking reticule' is because the actual reticule is larger than can be shown (you don't really want the aim circle being bigger than the screen)
So it only shrinks when the actual aim circle gets small enough to show.

Edited by Baldrickk, 05 September 2017 - 07:29 PM.


TungstenHitman #3 Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:44 AM

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Yawn.. good morning all. 2-3 seconds is not fast aim time it's more like 1.5 seconds to be considered fast. Anyway, with some tanks the combination of poor accuracy, moving dispersion and slow aim times is such that while you are zoomed in through sniper mode nothing seems to be happening with the aiming circle, almost like it's frozen. Well what's really happening is the aiming circle we are shown has a limited maximum dispersion diameter that we can see and anything greater than that simply is not shown but the dispersion WILL go beyond the size of the aiming circle shown so it IS actually closing you just have to imagine an aiming circle twice the diameter of the circle displayed which will not start to show as aiming until it has reduced to the diameter of the aiming circle you CAN see.. So it appears frozen for a second but it actually isn't.

 

For example, lets say the maximum dispersion circle shown on screen is .4 but because of your driving around, poor accuracy and slow aim time, at the point of you stopping to aim at a target the dispersion is at .9 but of course the shown circle is limited to a maximum of .4 so you actually have to wait for the unshown dispersion circle to close from .9 to .4 before anything happens to the size of the aim circle on screen. Does this make sense? it should, Just imagine an aiming circle twice the size of the circle displayed as it starts to close in while you aim, that's what's happening and the slower the aim time, the longer it will take for that gigantic aiming circle to reduce to the size of the circle shown on you screen.

 

EDIT- Equipping a Gun Laying Drive reduces that poor dispersion by 20% which is massive and something you should use if possible. It simple does not allow the aiming circle to ever get that big and so your tank will be getting a combination of better accuracy on the move, a constantly reduced dispersion and you will also be hitting your best accuracy quicker by simply never having the gun dispersion THAT bad at any given time. Also the skills Smooth Ride and Snap Shot improve this further


Edited by TungstenHitman, 03 September 2017 - 10:53 AM.


Homer_J #4 Posted 03 September 2017 - 11:36 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 03 September 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

 

EDIT- Equipping a Gun Laying Drive reduces that poor dispersion by 20% which is massive and something you should use if possible. It simple does not allow the aiming circle to ever get that big and so your tank will be getting a combination of better accuracy on the move, a constantly reduced dispersion and you will also be hitting your best accuracy quicker by simply never having the gun dispersion THAT bad at any given time.

 

You mean a Vertical Stabiliser.



Axelfoley666 #5 Posted 03 September 2017 - 12:03 PM

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Thank you for all the replies, cleared that up.

 



jack_timber #6 Posted 03 September 2017 - 12:08 PM

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Good advice but don't forget crew %, look at relevant Wiki for you tank it will tell you aim time at different crew %.

Only tanks I have GLD on is Arty and slower aiming guns, Deathstar springs to mind.



TungstenHitman #7 Posted 03 September 2017 - 04:30 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 03 September 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

 

You mean a Vertical Stabiliser.

 

yup, my bad..

BP_OMowe #8 Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:18 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 03 September 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

For example, lets say the maximum dispersion circle shown on screen is .4 but because of your driving around, poor accuracy and slow aim time, at the point of you stopping to aim at a target the dispersion is at .9 but of course the shown circle is limited to a maximum of .4 so you actually have to wait for the unshown dispersion circle to close from .9 to .4 before anything happens to the size of the aim circle on screen.

 

.4 what exactly? Been wondering what unit the blooms are measured in for quite some time now.

DeltaOperator #9 Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:22 AM

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Aim Time is a lie.

TungstenHitman #10 Posted 04 September 2017 - 01:08 AM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 03 September 2017 - 11:18 PM, said:

 

.4 what exactly? Been wondering what unit the blooms are measured in for quite some time now.

 

O man sleepy.. off to bed with me no DOUBT lol. that was just an example for talk sake, can be .7 .8 whatever but what that ".4" or ".27" dispersion means, is the potential maximum "off centre" distance in meters per 100 meters the gun may possibly shoot wide of the very middle of the aiming circle. When you're driving and bouncing over ground and turning turret all at the same time the shot dispersion is at its absolute worst possible accuracy so it might be stated at a really large number and the aiming circle is gigantic, beyond screen size for some tanks lol and most the time it will find the dirt or sky lol. 

 

So, (correct me if I'm wrong) if the gun is stated at .5 accuracy then what that means is that over the distance of 100 meters, the gun has the potential to be .5 of a meter wide of the absolute middle of the aim circle, if the target is 200 meters it's potential is (at worst) to be .5X2= 1 meter wide of the absolute middle, 300 meters .5X3= 1.5 meters wide from absolute middle at worst. This is my understanding of the figure shown and I have found it to be true however this is the worst accuracy at the best possible aim lol.. so as soon as you mover turret or even move gun on a turretless TD, the accuracy is already influenced by movement, then traverse the tank itself and that's even more movement, then actually move the tank, that's even more dispersion again, then do all of this at once and throw in hills and bumps and handbrake turns and that .5 is more like 5.0 lol in other words when you are ramping off jumps and tilting to one side and turning your turret in an autolock the potential is to miss a target by 5 meters for every 100 meters lol.. its probably much worse than that for some tanks I tend to favor fast aim time tanks for that reason though this is also often misleading as it just has it's static aim time displayed which is pretty much when you're camped for 3 seconds THEN you start to wind in that aim time but again, this is ONLY if you do absolutely no movement of tank or mouse.. unrealistic in practice and as mentioned, as soon as you start to look around and move turret towards a target it gets the hidden stats treatment so what is accuracy?.. I'd actually leave that up to field studies by players that have played a particular tank for hundreds of battles at it's best layout and report what exactly they find in terms of "forget the .3 and 1.6 aim time this tank has actually sh** accuracy and dispersion" or "forget the .4 and 2.5 second aim time this tank hits its target 3 times out of 4 EVEN on the move" or "great close, bad at range" or "surprisingly  decent at sniping long range targets" I have found many tanks that have surprised me at how good and bad they land shots compared to what is stated in there stats

 

The way I see it is the circle is fact that the shot will stay within it BUT some stay closer to the absolute center under different circumstances, some stay close to middle while fully aimed regardless of accuracy, some tanks you actually have to give it another second MORE than when it appears to be completely aimed which is very odd, some are somewhat inaccurate YET they don't get any worse while moving and can be considered far superior at hitting their target on the move compared to some tanks that are far superior at hitting their targets while static. This is actually a topic that has not got any definitive recordings. I would have thought that there would have been many tests on all tanks to display their true accuracy potential. You may say this has been done but like I said, it plays out much differently in truth 



Baldrickk #11 Posted 04 September 2017 - 06:23 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 04 September 2017 - 01:08 AM, said:

 

O man sleepy.. off to bed with me no DOUBT lol. that was just an example for talk sake, can be .7 .8 whatever but what that ".4" or ".27" dispersion means, is the potential maximum "off centre" distance in meters per 100 meters the gun may possibly shoot wide of the very middle of the aiming circle. When you're driving and bouncing over ground and turning turret all at the same time the shot dispersion is at its absolute worst possible accuracy so it might be stated at a really large number and the aiming circle is gigantic, beyond screen size for some tanks lol and most the time it will find the dirt or sky lol. 

 

So, (correct me if I'm wrong) if the gun is stated at .5 accuracy then what that means is that over the distance of 100 meters, the gun has the potential to be .5 of a meter wide of the absolute middle of the aim circle, if the target is 200 meters it's potential is (at worst) to be .5X2= 1 meter wide of the absolute middle, 300 meters .5X3= 1.5 meters wide from absolute middle at worst. This is my understanding of the figure shown and I have found it to be true however this is the worst accuracy at the best possible aim lol.. so as soon as you mover turret or even move gun on a turretless TD, the accuracy is already influenced by movement, then traverse the tank itself and that's even more movement, then actually move the tank, that's even more dispersion again, then do all of this at once and throw in hills and bumps and handbrake turns and that .5 is more like 5.0 lol in other words when you are ramping off jumps and tilting to one side and turning your turret in an autolock the potential is to miss a target by 5 meters for every 100 meters lol.. its probably much worse than that for some tanks I tend to favor fast aim time tanks for that reason though this is also often misleading as it just has it's static aim time displayed which is pretty much when you're camped for 3 seconds THEN you start to wind in that aim time but again, this is ONLY if you do absolutely no movement of tank or mouse.. unrealistic in practice and as mentioned, as soon as you start to look around and move turret towards a target it gets the hidden stats treatment so what is accuracy?.. I'd actually leave that up to field studies by players that have played a particular tank for hundreds of battles at it's best layout and report what exactly they find in terms of "forget the .3 and 1.6 aim time this tank has actually sh** accuracy and dispersion" or "forget the .4 and 2.5 second aim time this tank hits its target 3 times out of 4 EVEN on the move" or "great close, bad at range" or "surprisingly  decent at sniping long range targets" I have found many tanks that have surprised me at how good and bad they land shots compared to what is stated in there stats

 

The way I see it is the circle is fact that the shot will stay within it BUT some stay closer to the absolute center under different circumstances, some stay close to middle while fully aimed regardless of accuracy, some tanks you actually have to give it another second MORE than when it appears to be completely aimed which is very odd, some are somewhat inaccurate YET they don't get any worse while moving and can be considered far superior at hitting their target on the move compared to some tanks that are far superior at hitting their targets while static. This is actually a topic that has not got any definitive recordings. I would have thought that there would have been many tests on all tanks to display their true accuracy potential. You may say this has been done but like I said, it plays out much differently in truth 

 You are right on the mechanics. 

 

Apart from the last paragraph.  No tank is better at hitting the middle of the circle than others.  You can forget that


Edited by Baldrickk, 04 September 2017 - 06:27 AM.


TungstenHitman #12 Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:33 AM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 04 September 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

 You are right on the mechanics. 

 

Apart from the last paragraph.  No tank is better at hitting the middle of the circle than others.  You can forget that

 

You sure? I could nearly swear the Hellcat has really loose throws from the absolute center when compared to when I was using the lkv 65. The aim times and accuracy on both of these tier6 TD's is VERY similar yet I found I could thread the eye of a needle with the lkv65 such was it's consistent ability to not wander from absolute middle of the aiming circle and I have found this with most tanks. 



Baldrickk #13 Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:29 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 04 September 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

 

You sure? I could nearly swear the Hellcat has really loose throws from the absolute center when compared to when I was using the lkv 65. The aim times and accuracy on both of these tier6 TD's is VERY similar yet I found I could thread the eye of a needle with the lkv65 such was it's consistent ability to not wander from absolute middle of the aiming circle and I have found this with most tanks. 

It's either apophenia, or just plain old cognitive bias.

 

I personally felt the hellcat was accurate when I played it and my IKV65 feels like it derps it's shots for me. 

I know it's not different, and it's just perception, so...



Homer_J #14 Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:47 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 04 September 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

 

You sure?

 

Devs have always said that shot distribution is the same for all tanks, inc arty.




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