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Recent Arty Changes Favored HT's.


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cmgamesro #1 Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:59 AM

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After nerfing the pen and increase the ROF of SPG's, HT's are no longer a target for arty's, instead, paper armor tanks are more prioritized than before because they can be penetrated.

 

For example FV304 has 28 mm pen, there is no way you could pen a heavy with this. So i'm asking to buff the pen of all SPG's by 25% and nerf the ROF by 25% (not sure if this values are fair) , i think this could balance the way SPG's prioritize tanks.

 

Of course i know wg doesn't read this forum, but i've been thinking about this for some time and i wan't to share my opinion a bit.



Homer_J #2 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:12 AM

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I don't think buffing the pen is the right way to go.  They should have given all arty HE less than 10mm penetration and left the damage as it was.  That way they would almost never do more than half damage.

 

I agree that now they do too little damage to heavies and proportionally too much to low armour targets.



LikePike #3 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:14 AM

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IS-3, 20 mm armor on engine deck

IS-2, 30 mm armor on engine deck

O-I, 50 mm armor on engine deck/turret top

AMX M4 mle 45, 20 mm armor on engine deck

AMX M4 mel. 49 (Liberte), 45 mm armor on engine deck

Defender, 30 mm on armor on engine deck

 

Punish them when they don't move...  :arta:


Edited by LikePike, 06 September 2017 - 09:17 AM.


Spurtung #4 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:24 AM

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Yes, the main targets have changed, but that's hardly a problem.

Instead of helping your team deal with the heavies, you help the team deal with everything else, so they can swarm those heavies later on.



cmgamesro #5 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:25 AM

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View PostLikePike, on 06 September 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

IS-3, 20 mm armor on engine deck

IS-2, 30 mm armor on engine deck

O-I, 50 mm armor on engine deck/turret top

AMX M4 mle 45, 20 mm armor on engine deck

AMX M4 mel. 49 (Liberte), 45 mm armor on engine deck

Defender, 30 mm on armor on engine deck

 

Punish them when they don't move...  :arta:

 

tell that to those 45% wr arty players who represent the majority of playerbase, there aren't much players who know how to hit a heavy so that still favorizes them.

HundeWurst #6 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:40 AM

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How about we remove any kind of HE penetration all together? For all tank classes and not just arty. That would make the game 10 times better.

 

And if you would really want arty to shoot heavy tanks again you should make arty deal damage percentage wise based on the tanks hitpoints. Since heavies tends to have the best HPpools arty would should heavies again instead of trying to hunt the light tank and pray to RNGjesus to hit and pen that.

 

Your proposal does not make a lot of sense, if any. There is no easy fix for complex problems. When do you people will ever realize that.


Edited by WunderWurst, 06 September 2017 - 09:41 AM.


LikePike #7 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:41 AM

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View Postcmgamesro, on 06 September 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

 

tell that to those 45% wr arty players who represent the majority of playerbase, there aren't much players who know how to hit a heavy so that still favorizes them.

 

Maybe you doing something wrong, if you get hit by an arta with 3+ sec shell travel time and no splash damage... :popcorn:

NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:41 AM

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No, heavies are the most vulnerable because they don't have the mobility to avoid arty so it's only fair they get the benefit of that armour. If your getting clobbered by arty in a light tank then you're probably just doing something wrong.

Aikl #9 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:43 AM

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I believe a 25% buff to HE pen would just mean they'll have even more success against lighter targets, while not being that much more effective against heavy tanks still (unless you get a direct hit on the engine deck, which isn't that likely - the main problem with the old FV304 was simply the combination of high shell arc, relatively short travel time and/or rate of fire).

 

Nowadays playing arty isn't as frustrating as it used to be. Maybe it's time to pay with frustration for the no-risk gameplay? Make it more, ahem, tactical. Heck, being able to counter campers would honestly solve the problem of a very similar class which primary feature is line-of-sight clicking.

Pick two out of three of the following:

 

  1. Remove arty missions (my personal favourite)
  2. Increase shell travel time
  3. Reduce ammo capacity
  4. Increase operating costs

 

(Take it with a pinch of salt, but WG finally reworking arty was kind of a poor excuse to reduce their numbers and damage output. Nowadays there are plenty of them, and they are quite often damage dealers rather than the proposed support class. WG managed to nerf TD camo and viewrange back in the day - I wouldn't feel too sure they wouldn't tap into that again.)

 

PS:

 


Edited by Aikl, 06 September 2017 - 09:47 AM.


cmgamesro #10 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:44 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 06 September 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

No, heavies are the most vulnerable because they don't have the mobility to avoid arty so it's only fair they get the benefit of that armour. If your getting clobbered by arty in a light tank then you're probably just doing something wrong.

 

they don't have to avoid arty bacause city maps, and even non-city maps have big hills to protect them, and light's aren't the only tanks without armor.

_EXODUZ_ #11 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:50 AM

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View Postcmgamesro, on 06 September 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

 

they don't have to avoid arty bacause city maps, and even non-city maps have big hills to protect them, and light's aren't the only tanks without armor.

 

You're just arguing for the sake of it.

Toni112007 #12 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:52 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 06 September 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

How about we remove any kind of HE penetration all together? For all tank classes and not just arty. That would make the game 10 times better.

Not for KV-2 :(



LikePike #13 Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:54 AM

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What's next, you're getting XvM focused by Arty? - kappa

 



truoste #14 Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:31 AM

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View Postcmgamesro, on 06 September 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

After nerfing the pen and increase the ROF of SPG's, HT's are no longer a target for arty's, instead, paper armor tanks are more prioritized than before because they can be penetrated.

 

For example FV304 has 28 mm pen, there is no way you could pen a heavy with this. So i'm asking to buff the pen of all SPG's by 25% and nerf the ROF by 25% (not sure if this values are fair) , i think this could balance the way SPG's prioritize tanks.

 

Of course i know wg doesn't read this forum, but i've been thinking about this for some time and i wan't to share my opinion a bit.

 

Excellent start but you forgot to add the most important part of the fix: reducing alpha to 0. --> No worries about whom arty targets any more is there?

tajj7 #15 Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:35 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 06 September 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

How about we remove any kind of HE penetration all together? For all tank classes and not just arty. That would make the game 10 times better.

 

And if you would really want arty to shoot heavy tanks again you should make arty deal damage percentage wise based on the tanks hitpoints. Since heavies tends to have the best HPpools arty would should heavies again instead of trying to hunt the light tank and pray to RNGjesus to hit and pen that.

 

Your proposal does not make a lot of sense, if any. There is no easy fix for complex problems. When do you people will ever realize that.

 

 

Agree, just change arty pen to zero. 



qpranger #16 Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:38 AM

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When I see a Maus or Type 5 pushing or holding a flank, I will target that heavy because I think he is the biggest threat. I don't care if I do much less HE damage with my arty as a result, I just want to help my team get rid of that bogie ASAP.

Edited by qpranger, 06 September 2017 - 10:39 AM.


Long_Range_Sniper #17 Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:41 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 06 September 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

How about we remove any kind of HE penetration all together? For all tank classes and not just arty. That would make the game 10 times better.

 

And if you would really want arty to shoot heavy tanks again you should make arty deal damage percentage wise based on the tanks hitpoints. Since heavies tends to have the best HPpools arty would should heavies again instead of trying to hunt the light tank and pray to RNGjesus to hit and pen that.

 

Your proposal does not make a lot of sense, if any. There is no easy fix for complex problems. When do you people will ever realize that.

 

I'd like to see this run on the test server to see how it works out.

 

In terms of the OP suggestion, the symptom may be light tanks and thinly armoured tanks getting prioritised for arty, but that's really just another example of players failing to use the vehicle correctly. That's not an issue for WG, that's a player problem. I'd like to see the winrates of those players as they chase a T49 around the map, totally leaving the heavies pushing a choke point that's covered by friendly TD's.

 

It's the same principle as incorrectly using XVM to dictate your target choices. If players haven't adapted to how artillery should support by disrupting multiple tanks and creating opportunities for the team then that's not a balancing issue.



Spurtung #18 Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:19 AM

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View PostLikePike, on 06 September 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

What's next, you're getting XvM focused by Arty? - kappa

 

 

So...in a corner of the map, can only get enemies incoming from the front, gets shot by 2 arties from the left, waits for tracks to repair and...moves away from the only solid cover. Sounds smart.

HeidenSieker #19 Posted 06 September 2017 - 12:32 PM

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View PostLikePike, on 06 September 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

What's next, you're getting XvM focused by Arty? - kappa

 

 

Comment on Youtube re that clip:

 

That is absolutely 100% an arty problem. There is nothing at all wrong with you trying to YOLO scout in an IS-7 heavy tank. This had nothing at all to do with your team abandoning you at the front. Only an idiot would have thought of falling back when he saw his team running away. Nope, tier X arty hitting you 8 - 9 times behind that same rock is definitely the problem. There's no way this failure was your fault.

 

There are other criticisms that can be levelled at that player too. Mr T. Pratchett has a good one:

 

“If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards!”



truoste #20 Posted 06 September 2017 - 12:41 PM

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View PostLikePike, on 06 September 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:

What's next, you're getting XvM focused by Arty? - kappa

 

 

A classic mistake of kemping in front line and not wiggling nearly enough. To avoid this noobish mistake one needs to play actively near spawn and by playing actively I mean staying very still behind buush and actively looking at monitor. Other option is to search for much higher cover and playing very actively behind that cover. 




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