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I blinked...and then there was 10 of them...(The 0 line rush counter)


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Danger_UXB_ #1 Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:55 AM

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Im not really a newcomer..but im just after some sound/Constructive advice on what to do in these situations so any thoughts are appreciated..

 

 

So i played a game last night which was over so quickly, i was a bit gobsmacked. and at the same time after looking at the replay could not see any solution on what i could have done better (Apart 

from a full retreat)...And yes i loaded the gold as i thought we might be outnumbered there and wanted every shot to count.

 

 

 

 

So what are the options in this situation?..Im all for 'Fire and relocate' and to try to and absorb the 'Rush' but are there any other options here?...Should i have fell bach to H4 area and just

spotted them for my team there??...

 

...Or is it a case that if the oponants gain that much momentum whatever you do is fruitless??

 

 

 

I missed a few important shots so this might have contributed (But not too much?)...So would some of you better players take a look and see what i could have done better?

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

EDIT; added replayhttp://wotreplays.eu/site/3807977?secret=bdd3f4ea425b6129fcdbb97fa6eb805c

 

 

 


Edited by Danger_UXB_, 07 September 2017 - 12:04 PM.


Lycopersicon #2 Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:07 PM

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It only takes superhuman abilities to run away from such situation :P

Sessine #3 Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:25 PM

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Running away earlier (and a bit more controlled shooting) would give a bit more damage/XP but this game was a lost cause (shooters died before spotters and the majority side was going nowhere). It's also too quick to farm CR medals so all in all a waste of time...but at least it's over quick. ;)

ZlatanArKung #4 Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:59 PM

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I will now make a serious and long response on your situation based on my experience as a 'purple' player.

1: assessment of tank distribution.
Your team has way more heavy tanks, enemy team has way more medium tanks.
General behaviour of WOT predicts your heavy will go left side, enemy mediums will go right side (1-2 line).

I would still start there (1-2 line) in 13 90, but be catious to my teams movements and enemy spotted tanks.

Picture 2, I would go way further forward at start, like G9 area, to try and spot.
If no spot, further forward, if many spots, go back. Light tanks are rather fast and can do such a spot with relative safety.

Since I now knew how many tanks where in front of me on that side, I would retreat back. Somewhere further back that side, tell toon mates to push hard on other side. Get 1 clip in and then try to push left side of map. Or if the hold goes well, get 2 clips in before. Using team mates to stupid to run away as meatshields, making the enemy push cost them as much hp as possible when they push those in front of you.

I would never go to the position you are in at picture 4, since that is essentially suicide.

At the last pictures I would whine at my heavies for not managing to push a Lane without enemies.

In short, I would spot them, go back, try to start a push at other side of map.

ZlatanArKung #5 Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:19 PM

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Also, I wouldn't say you lost only because enemy rushed 1-2 line. I would say that your teams reluctance to push left side of map was just as an important factor.

Enemy team was active and did something (most of them) your team was passive and waited (most of them).

In general it is always better to be active and do stuff compared to sitting still and wait (and this is what I feel most players doesn't get).
I would say it is, in general, better to be active and make mistakes then be passive.

Danger_UXB_ #6 Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:45 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 07 September 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

I will now make a serious and long response on your situation based on my experience as a 'purple' player.

1: assessment of tank distribution.
Your team has way more heavy tanks, enemy team has way more medium tanks.
General behaviour of WOT predicts your heavy will go left side, enemy mediums will go right side (1-2 line).

I would still start there (1-2 line) in 13 90, but be catious to my teams movements and enemy spotted tanks.

Picture 2, I would go way further forward at start, like G9 area, to try and spot.
If no spot, further forward, if many spots, go back. Light tanks are rather fast and can do such a spot with relative safety.

Since I now knew how many tanks where in front of me on that side, I would retreat back. Somewhere further back that side, tell toon mates to push hard on other side. Get 1 clip in and then try to push left side of map. Or if the hold goes well, get 2 clips in before. Using team mates to stupid to run away as meatshields, making the enemy push cost them as much hp as possible when they push those in front of you.

I would never go to the position you are in at picture 4, since that is essentially suicide.

At the last pictures I would whine at my heavies for not managing to push a Lane without enemies.

In short, I would spot them, go back, try to start a push at other side of map.

 

Thank you so much for your valuable input

 

I guess after re-looking at my actions in that game you make so much sense....I should have been more aggressive in the initial spot then reacted accordingly..

 

Im a bit annoyed with myself as i had a little voice saying ''Go to the other flank and do something there as this one is dead''...but i chose to stay as i thought that the 4 players that would have been lost

due to it (Lack of mobility) would have give the team a certain loss anyway?...But i know i should have left and relocated (As you state)..

 

In the last pic i was reloading and was on my way to there but a yolo/Solo patton KR decided that i was his feast for that game...I guess i should have relocated earlier (As you state)...But oh the benefit of

hindsight??lol

 

 

In my defense due to my work i cant seem to play alot these days and relocating to go push the other flank to drag my heavies to where they needed to be might have been 2nd nature to me a while ago?..Mabye

im a bit rusty?:sceptic:

 

...Anyway like i say ''i could kick myself''

 

 

Again thanks for your input...You are spot on



Erwin_Von_Braun #7 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:55 PM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 07 September 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

Im not really a newcomer..but im just after some sound/Constructive advice on what to do in these situations so any thoughts are appreciated..

 

 

So i played a game last night which was over so quickly, i was a bit gobsmacked. and at the same time after looking at the replay could not see any solution on what i could have done better (Apart

from a full retreat)...And yes i loaded the gold as i thought we might be outnumbered there and wanted every shot to count.

 

 

 

 

So what are the options in this situation?..Im all for 'Fire and relocate' and to try to and absorb the 'Rush' but are there any other options here?...Should i have fell bach to H4 area and just

spotted them for my team there??...

 

...Or is it a case that if the oponants gain that much momentum whatever you do is fruitless??

 

 

 

I missed a few important shots so this might have contributed (But not too much?)...So would some of you better players take a look and see what i could have done better?

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

EDIT; added replayhttp://wotreplays.eu/site/3807977?secret=bdd3f4ea425b6129fcdbb97fa6eb805c

 

 

 

 

'What If' is an terrible thing.

Don't let it stalk you:)



Danger_UXB_ #8 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:31 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 07 September 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

 

'What If' is an terrible thing.

Don't let it stalk you:)

 

It does not at all:)...It was just kinda annoying a bit for me as i felt a bit helpless...and as a lover and believer in tactics i believe that there is one that will counter this?..

 

 

But in a near impossible situation to win i like to hear 'Better players' thoughts....Then mabye i might have an effect on the outcome of the next situation like that?

 

 

''What if'?? in my eyes is thought provoking?...i need answers GODDAMMIT!!....No harm in being inquisitive:):great:



Erwin_Von_Braun #9 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:52 PM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 07 September 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

 

It does not at all:)...It was just kinda annoying a bit for me as i felt a bit helpless...and as a lover and believer in tactics i believe that there is one that will counter this?..

 

 

But in a near impossible situation to win i like to hear 'Better players' thoughts....Then mabye i might have an effect on the outcome of the next situation like that?

 

 

''What if'?? in my eyes is thought provoking?...i need answers GODDAMMIT!!....No harm in being inquisitive:):great:

 

What you needed right there sir was a small tactical nuke:D

Danger_UXB_ #10 Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:24 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 07 September 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

 

What you needed right there sir was a small tactical nuke:D

 

Agreed!!...can i find them in the game shop?:teethhappy:

Axarn #11 Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:40 PM

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Here's a friendly advise:

 

Spoiler

 



Erwin_Von_Braun #12 Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:08 AM

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View PostAxarn, on 07 September 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

Here's a friendly advise:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Lube?

Real men don't use lube:teethhappy:



Uebergewicht #13 Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:06 AM

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From watching Lemming Rush (the player), I remember how he often says you need to at least win one flank to stand a real chance. There is no real point in stemming yourself against such a tide, if your team does a lemming rush (the move), in general your goal should be to support them and make sure their momentum does not get stopped. Such a rush can be quite a powerful tool, but lesser players to to get bogged down easily by fewer enemies, which you must not allow. You need to win that flank to either get on the enemy cap or to be able to properly turn around and defend your own base without getting into a crossfire/encircled. So that´s what I learned from a vastly better player.



Statpadderer #14 Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:06 AM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 07 September 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

So would some of you better players take a look and see what i could have done better?



UrQuan #15 Posted 12 September 2017 - 11:51 AM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 07 September 2017 - 08:52 PM, said:

 

What you needed right there sir was a small tactical nuke:D

 

Pretty much this.

 

What catched my eye the most was how passive the heavies on your team were. The flank you were on was lost, folks gave advice on that already on how to cope best with it. What made the game hopeless was the heavies. In such cases (I drive heavies alot) when I notice the other flank has it rough, I got few options: 

- Clear my flank fast (can't turn back before that tbh, else we lost two flanks) then turn back to defend cap/attack enemy rushtrain.

- Hard push to their base (can fragment lemmingtrains, as some turn back) & either cap or attack rear/defend base

 

Issue is, your heavies seem to do nothing of that. They just sit there.... They're even quite far back, essentially doing the heavy tank variant of 'redline camping'. In this specific case, several of them could easily have turned back to assist before the collapse was complete, giving you a chance to stem the tide.

Problem with all the heavies sitting in that spot is that it relies on the enemies taking the initiative. They did, just not on that flank, rendering your heavies useless. 

 

In short; this match was a loss for you the way it developed, no matter how you turn it. Enemy rushed one flank while most heavies remained passive in their non/low action spot. As mentioned, unable to take control of any single flank is near always a loss. To have a chance at winning, you need firm control over a flank, no matter how bad it is, as it reduces the paths you can get attacked from & gives you a secure area to move in.



discontinued #16 Posted 12 September 2017 - 02:03 PM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 07 September 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

Im not really a newcomer..but im just after some sound/Constructive advice on what to do in these situations so any thoughts are appreciated..

 

 

So i played a game last night which was over so quickly, i was a bit gobsmacked. and at the same time after looking at the replay could not see any solution on what i could have done better (Apart 

from a full retreat)...And yes i loaded the gold as i thought we might be outnumbered there and wanted every shot to count.

 

 

 

 

So what are the options in this situation?..Im all for 'Fire and relocate' and to try to and absorb the 'Rush' but are there any other options here?...Should i have fell bach to H4 area and just

spotted them for my team there??...

 

...Or is it a case that if the oponants gain that much momentum whatever you do is fruitless??

 

 

 

I missed a few important shots so this might have contributed (But not too much?)...So would some of you better players take a look and see what i could have done better?

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

EDIT; added replayhttp://wotreplays.eu/site/3807977?secret=bdd3f4ea425b6129fcdbb97fa6eb805c

 

 

 

 

Hi im not entirely sure why you posted this on the newcomers forum?I'm not being bad but inst this a bit of ego massaging (look noobs see how good I am)

 

Also I have nothing but disdain for anyone that uses an Amx 13-90...op as F***K autoloader

 

 


Edited by discontinued, 12 September 2017 - 02:17 PM.


Danger_UXB_ #17 Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:05 PM

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View Postdiscontinued, on 12 September 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

 

Hi im not entirely sure why you posted this on the newcomers forum?I'm not being bad but inst this a bit of ego massaging (look noobs see how good I am)

 

Also I have nothing but disdain for anyone that uses an Amx 13-90...op as F***K autoloader

 

 

 

I posted this in this section as it seems sometimes that 'Gameplay' has to some extent been taken over the '1 liner trolls' that frequent that topic..and in that context it fruitless.

 

 

..i was after a few serious answers and advice on what i could have done better and i recieved it due to genuine some forum guys helping out...and i appreciate that..

 

 

 

The 1390 i dont play cos its OP at all?...My love of this tank stems from when it was not too good a tank in tier 8 and in which case it was a good scout..i love it for its playstyle and i have over 1100 games in it to

date played over the years and not since the last patch only when due to the fact it can be top tier now and then made it a very capable tank indeed..

 

.HELL!! i even named a clan after it..

 

Please take your distain elsewhere as i have no intention of stopping playing it whether its 'Good' or? 'Bad'

 

 

PS. If i wanted to try look good here i would post good games and not bad ones??....

 

Chill out dude this is the nicer part of the forum so lets keep it that way? Thanks!



discontinued #18 Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:50 PM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 12 September 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

 

I posted this in this section as it seems sometimes that 'Gameplay' has to some extent been taken over the '1 liner trolls' that frequent that topic..and in that context it fruitless.

 

 

..i was after a few serious answers and advice on what i could have done better and i recieved it due to genuine some forum guys helping out...and i appreciate that..

 

 

 

The 1390 i dont play cos its OP at all?...My love of this tank stems from when it was not too good a tank in tier 8 and in which case it was a good scout..i love it for its playstyle and i have over 1100 games in it to

date played over the years and not since the last patch only when due to the fact it can be top tier now and then made it a very capable tank indeed..

 

.HELL!! i even named a clan after it..

 

Please take your distain elsewhere as i have no intention of stopping playing it whether its 'Good' or? 'Bad'

 

 

PS. If i wanted to try look good here i would post good games and not bad ones??....

 

Chill out dude this is the nicer part of the forum so lets keep it that way? Thanks!

Fair enough

 

I just hate facing amx 13-90's in my wz

 

:)



Balc0ra #19 Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:51 PM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 07 September 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

So what are the options in this situation?..Im all for 'Fire and relocate' and to try to and absorb the 'Rush' but are there any other options here?...Should i have fell bach to H4 area and just

spotted them for my team there??...

 

If you don't want to fight, then why stay? You are outgunned and will fail the flank 100% regardless. So either stay and get 1 clip in before you die, or fall back to your platoon mates and get some help and possibly get more damage in. As I suspect both flanks are lost either way. As those pictures show why I hate that map from that side. HT's won't push past the H line most times, even when they outgun the enemy 10 to 1. Or even try to counter or react to the 9 line lemming push. Better to wait on H3 or H5 as they usually do for half the team to die.

Erwin_Von_Braun #20 Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:08 PM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 12 September 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

 

I posted this in this section as it seems sometimes that 'Gameplay' has to some extent been taken over the '1 liner trolls' that frequent that topic..and in that context it fruitless.

 

 

..i was after a few serious answers and advice on what i could have done better and i recieved it due to genuine some forum guys helping out...and i appreciate that..

 

 

 

The 1390 i dont play cos its OP at all?...My love of this tank stems from when it was not too good a tank in tier 8 and in which case it was a good scout..i love it for its playstyle and i have over 1100 games in it to

date played over the years and not since the last patch only when due to the fact it can be top tier now and then made it a very capable tank indeed..

 

.HELL!! i even named a clan after it..

 

Please take your distain elsewhere as i have no intention of stopping playing it whether its 'Good' or? 'Bad'

 

 

PS. If i wanted to try look good here i would post good games and not bad ones??....

 

Chill out dude this is the nicer part of the forum so lets keep it that way? Thanks!

 

There does seem to be a great many of those one-liners around - guess it must be their breeding season :trollface:




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