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Teamplay discouraged...

teamplay capture capping base

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Takuan_Soho #1 Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:35 PM

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Does the game encourage teamplay ?

 

My experience tends towards a negative response.

 

Points won from capturing the base are meagre, even if that's what makes your team win. Even if you're your team's last hope. Even if the other team is capturing too.

 

Worse. I've seen people threaten to report me if I kept capping because they wanted the chance to get more kills. I didn't listen to them, because I know it's a good way to lose, or at least get teammates killed (often artys, if you don't like them, don't feel forced to play the game). Not even to mention the time lost, because I've got other things to do than wait while you go chasing frags.

 

It makes me think the game rewards tactical rather than strategic skill, and it makes it more shallow.

 

That, and the ridiculous economy (ever wondered why some people use bots for grinding ?) have made me concentrate on WoWs. The community is less cancerous and the economy is, at least in lower tiers, far more relaxed than in WoT.

 

I wonder if I'm the only one experiencing this. It's sad, because I used to like WoT, now I play it so rarely I don't even have bad things to say about arty nerfing yet.



qpranger #2 Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:44 PM

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Teamplay is not encouraged: you can do nothing for your teams and still "enjoy" an average overall 40-something% win rate after thousands and tens of thousands of battles all the way to tier 10 because the system will nurture you and reward your eternal failure to learn. If only there was some skill cutoff threshold at tier 8 for example. I would have gladly been cut off among others, at least then I would know that if I got better and was allowed into tiers 9 and 10, I would no longer be plagued by the same hordes of zombies that spoil lower tier gameplay.



Yakito #3 Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:46 PM

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A few years ago I was this "no cap" guy. I still prefer to kill and will laugh at people that cap when the score is so high there is no way we lose.
But I once persuaded my team not to cap, they listened and we lost badly. That one still stings after more than a year.

Its  think that xvm is one of the biggest reasons people are selfish though. Its not "we have to win" but instead "I need to do damage for my wn8".

Jumping_Turtle #4 Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:48 PM

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View PostTakuan_Soho, on 07 September 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

Does the game encourage teamplay ?

 

Only in stronghold, CW and other teamplay modes.

 

Radom is just what it is called. You get random teams with random players who have different motives to play.



Balc0ra #5 Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:55 PM

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People get upset when you cap when there are still targets left. Because when you cap,  Only you or the people in the cap gets a small amount of bonus XP. If your team do more damage, and eliminates the enemy team, everyone gets more xp. As some of the XP you get is based on a team performance factor. If you cap when half the enemy team is left. Your performance factor is way less.

 

If there are tanks near you base, or they have a lemming train on one side of the map you lost control over. Then capping to either force them to split or turn around is not the worst idea, or just to give yourself a head start on the cap if they go for it etc. Then why not? I don't always go for cap to win. But as a distraction. To force them out. But when you outgun the enemy, and you know where they are. And if they are not near your base.. Why cap?

 

View PostTakuan_Soho, on 07 September 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

I didn't listen to them, because I know it's a good way to lose, or at least get teammates killed

 

More so then then not, it's a good way to lose indeed. Because the rest of your team lacks support to win vs less guns, as they are on the other side of the map, capping the enemy base, and you would waste to much time going back to help them out. And it's equally lost as often, because people go for the enemy cap to "win", vs turning back and helping to defend base. I've lost way more times that way, vs leaving cap to help out.

Sfinski #6 Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:57 PM

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Everytime I've tried to encourage teamplay by helping my teammates they've let me down. Never trust your team in randoms. Perform as well as possible and react to your teams mistakes. That's how randoms just are. 

Homer_J #7 Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:03 PM

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View PostTakuan_Soho, on 07 September 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

 

Points won from capturing the base are meagre, even if that's what makes your team win.

 

If you win by capping you get 50% extra exp.

Browarszky #8 Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:08 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 07 September 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

People get upset when you cap when there are still targets left. Because when you cap,  Only you or the people in the cap gets a small amount of bonus XP. If your team do more damage, and eliminates the enemy team, everyone gets more xp. As some of the XP you get is based on a team performance factor. If you cap when half the enemy team is left. Your performance factor is way less.

 

If there are tanks near you base, or they have a lemming train on one side of the map you lost control over. Then capping to either force them to split or turn around is not the worst idea, or just to give yourself a head start on the cap if they go for it etc. Then why not? I don't always go for cap to win. But as a distraction. To force them out. But when you outgun the enemy, and you know where they are. And if they are not near your base.. Why cap?

 

 

More so then then not, it's a good way to lose indeed. Because the rest of your team lacks support to win vs less guns, as they are on the other side of the map, capping the enemy base, and you would waste to much time going back to help them out. And it's equally lost as often, because people go for the enemy cap to "win", vs turning back and helping to defend base. I've lost way more times that way, vs leaving cap to help out.

 

Some solid pieces of advice there!

 

That's exactly the way you should go about capping. Also, it is always easier to break off capping later than it is to start it, if things go awry for your team. I can understand the hostile reactions when there is little or no threat of the enemy capping and you have numerical superiority (meaning both tactical and numerical advantage over the enemy!). The other side of the coin is that the extra XP and credits you can potentially farm from the remaining kills will be lost if you allow the enemy to cap successfully.



Kozzy #9 Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:37 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 07 September 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

If you win by capping you get 50% extra exp.

 

Isn't that simply to make up for some of the lost XP i.e. XP that would have been gained from damaging the enemy?  For me, wins by capping yield lower XP than my wins due to all enemy tanks being killed.

OneSock #10 Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:39 PM

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I never really understood the logic of it to be honest.

 

I always thought a cap win takes more skill/teamplay/tactics and should be rewarded more.

 

If CAP is not optimal way to win, then just make the game team deathmatch and remove cap circle.

 

or at least make CAP win same in terms of XP payout...



Homer_J #11 Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:43 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 07 September 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

 

Isn't that simply to make up for some of the lost XP i.e. XP that would have been gained from damaging the enemy?  For me, wins by capping yield lower XP than my wins due to all enemy tanks being killed.

 

No, you get 50% extra no matter how you win.  The point being that if capping is the only way to win then it does get rewarded.

 

Yes cap wins get you less exp than kill all, losses get you even less especially if you spent your time sat around looking at a flag instead of fighting..



brumbarr #12 Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:49 PM

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Teamplay is rewarded, if you win you get 50% more xp.

Teamplay leads to winning more , ergo, teamplay is rewarded.

 

Btw, you are prob capping when its not nessecary at all and your team would have gotten more xp if you didnt , thats not teamplay, thats being selfish.



OneSock #13 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:01 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 07 September 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

your team would have gotten more xp 

 

and what everyone forgets is the XP per minute played.


At the start of the battle your team makes lots of XP as there are more enemy tanks to shoot. as the game progresses XP earned per minute drops off as enemy numbers drop off. at some point you could be left chasing around an arty or low HP scout tank, while you and your team mates could be earning more XP in the next battle.

 

sometimes it's better just cap and be done with it, move onto next battle.

 

(this assumes your not a stat whore of course).



jabster #14 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:03 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 07 September 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

 

Btw, you are prob capping when its not nessecary at all and your team would have gotten more xp if you didnt , thats not teamplay, thats being selfish.

 

It's no more selfish to say don't cap as I want more exp. than it is to cap because you want to get on with the next game.

Edited by jabster, 07 September 2017 - 04:03 PM.


brumbarr #15 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:05 PM

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View PostOneSock, on 07 September 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

 

and what everyone forgets is the XP per minute played.


At the start of the battle your team makes lots of XP as there are more enemy tanks to shoot. as the game progresses XP earned per minute drops off as enemy numbers drop off. at some point you could be left chasing around an arty or low HP scout tank, while you and your team mates could be earning more XP in the next battle.

 

sometimes it's better just cap and be done with it, move onto next battle.

 

(this assumes your not a stat whore of course).

Not nessecarily, the clean up phae of a battle is often fast and  can lead to lots of extra dmg done, so the exp per minute might be higher then in the opening stages of a battle. Also, with each battle you play comes extra loadtime+ 30s + waiting for a battle in garage.

 

And I dont care about xp per minute,  I want to do well each battle, quality above quantity.

 

View Postjabster, on 07 September 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

It's no more selfish to say don't cap as I want more exp. than it is to cap because you want to get on with the next game.

 

If you cap you give everyone but yourself less xp.

If you dotn cap everyone on your team can get more xp.

 


 

Jumping_Turtle #16 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:08 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 07 September 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

 

If you cap you give everyone but yourself less xp.

If you dotn cap everyone on your team can get more xp.

 

 

Pretty much evens out in the long run with the more battles you can do with capping and go to the next battle quicker.

jabster #17 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:11 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 07 September 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

 

If you cap you give everyone but yourself less xp.

If you dotn cap everyone on your team can get more xp.

 

 

Yes and, this always comes up, are you seriously suggesting that players don't want to cap because other players get more exp./credits. I've yet to see a player that says don't cap but I'm not going to shoot the last survivors so others get more exp./credits - have you?

 

Honestly, where's the difference. Both come from the same selfish reasoning. 


Edited by jabster, 07 September 2017 - 04:12 PM.


brumbarr #18 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:15 PM

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View Postjabster, on 07 September 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

 

Yes and, this always comes up, are you seriously suggesting that players don't want to cap because other players get more exp./credits. I've yet to see a player that says don't cap but I'm not going to shoot the last survivors so others get more exp./credits - have you?

 

Honestly, where's the difference. Both come from the same selfish reasoning. 

 

Both come from selfish reasons yes,  I dont want players to cap because I enjoy the game less, players want to cap because they enjoy the game more.

But the motivation being selfish is irrelevant, that doesnt change the fact we can look objectivly at the 2 options and see which one has the best net gain for everyone.



OneSock #19 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:17 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 07 September 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

Not nessecarily, the clean up phae of a battle is often fast and  can lead to lots of extra dmg done, so the exp per minute might be higher then in the opening stages of a battle. Also, with each battle you play comes extra loadtime+ 30s + waiting for a battle in garage.

 

And I dont care about xp per minute,  I want to do well each battle, quality above quantity.

 

The load time is irrelevant it's fixed for both scenarios.

 

it's situational, if there is a full HP JPZE100 or mause disconnected and your team is near, then sure, farm the XP. but if your remaining team is driving HTs and the last remaining enemy is a low HP zippy swedish TD or scout, then why waste time chasing it around the map. bloody daft and boring. IMO.

 



CmdRatScabies #20 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:17 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 07 September 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

 

If you cap you give everyone but yourself less xp.

If you dotn cap everyone on your team can get more xp.

 

 

How does the maths work on that?  At what point is it better to cap or not cap - from the cappers perspective?





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