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The moan about premiums, I don't get it.


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tajj7 #1 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:10 PM

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So the new guard thing is out, and as usual when we get another premium there is a lot of whine about the mere fact there is another premium.

 

But I honestly do not understand this whine, as long as the vehicle is not OP (and recent premiums seeming to be doing ok in this regard) then who really cares? Don't buy it, or buy it, no one is forcing you to do anything.  

 

A common thing I see is that this complaint is based on some sort of idea that releasing a premium is holding up other stuff like fixes, rebalances, new maps etc. but is it really? How many people and how long will it honestly take to make one new premium? Not that many IMO.  

 

Is it likely to hold up maps? Nope, that is a different team and they are all working on HD maps

Is it holding up rebalances? Not really, we've just had 29 tanks having some sort of change in the last patch. 

Is it holding up HD tanks? Well 30 odd vehicles in HD over the last two patches.

Is it holding up new modes? Well grand battles and ranked have been brought in over the last 2-3 patches, plus they were working on that domination mode. 

Is it holding up new regular vehicles? Again not really, already this year we've had the new lights, new German heavies and Chinese TDs. 

 

Then there was the whole raft of changes this year like arty, MM, light rebalance etc.  

 

So they make some premiums, is it really a big deal? 

 

Other complaints that its yet another Soviet premium, yeh some justification there but who are their main audience, it's pretty logical they will release content that interests the million plus Russian players. 

 

Personally I like new content, even it's premium tanks, new tanks freshen up the game and create interest, it is going to be harder and harder for them to come up with whole new lines of tech tree tanks, but there are still likely to be plenty of one off designs and blue prints that make new premiums viable. 

 

My main criticism would be that I don;t feel copy paste premiums are that interesting, like Tiger 131.Ht no.6 or the T-44-100, but even then it's a take it or leave it situation. 

 

Personally my reaction when I see a new premium is 1. Is it balanced? 2. Is it interesting? 3. Shall I buy it? Seems others have other reactions. 



Derethim #2 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:15 PM

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It's a big deal, because it's another tank not-paying people will never  get and there isn't an infinite number of tanks out there to include in WoT.

Another reason is them being overpowered as of late, for example, Scorpion G is definitely overpowered.

It's not broken.

It's not unbalanced.

It's OP.

 

I don't think I've seen a single person complaining about them holding back the development.



Enderman21 #3 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:15 PM

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Are you really going to whine here because there's nothing in the game to whine about? 

tajj7 #4 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:32 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 07 September 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

It's a big deal, because it's another tank not-paying people will never  get and there isn't an infinite number of tanks out there to include in WoT.

Another reason is them being overpowered as of late, for example, Scorpion G is definitely overpowered.

It's not broken.

It's not unbalanced.

It's OP.

 

I don't think I've seen a single person complaining about them holding back the development.

 

So tanks that freeloaders don't get is a big problem? Can't see that at all, as long as they aren't iconic tanks like Tigers, Chieftains, T-54s, Panthers, Pattons etc. then what is the issue? 90% of premiums are weird prototypes or paper tanks. Is anyone coming into this game upset they can't get an STG or a Jagdtiger 88 or an FV4202? I seriously doubt it. 

 

There wouldn't be a game without people spending money and a lot of that money comes from premium tanks.

 

Also Skorpion is not OP, simply isn't. Defender yeh, Chrysler K probably, tanks like that but a big paper target with low HP, no armour and terrible camo is not going to be OP. Strong in the right hands no doubt and great credit earner, especially in the terrible tier 8 MM but OP? nah. 



Long_Range_Sniper #5 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:37 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 07 September 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

Personally my reaction when I see a new premium is 1. Is it balanced? 2. Is it interesting? 3. Shall I buy it? Seems others have other reactions. 

 

I add on,

 

1. What's the credit earning potential?

2. Will it fit well into my garage and help maximise crew training?

 

If you look at previous "OP" tanks that were subject to furious anger at the time like the Liberte or the Scorpion then they're pretty much able to be handled now. My annoyance with the Chrysler GF (which I didn't buy) wasn't anything to do with it being allegedly OP, it was the fact that it cost credits to use the damn thing apparently!



Nishi_Kinuyo #6 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:45 PM

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Point isn't so much new premiums tanks, imo, in so far as most of them being "unimaginative"; aka yet another rashan MT/HT or german TD.

You know, getting those, instead of nations actually needing more premiums like Britain, Japan, etc.



Browarszky #7 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:46 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 07 September 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

 

I add on,

 

1. What's the credit earning potential?

2. Will it fit well into my garage and help maximise crew training?

 

If you look at previous "OP" tanks that were subject to furious anger at the time like the Liberte or the Scorpion then they're pretty much able to be handled now. My annoyance with the Chrysler GF (which I didn't buy) wasn't anything to do with it being allegedly OP, it was the fact that it cost credits to use the damn thing apparently!

 

Chrysler GF (Goldfinger) was a double Fort Knox jackpot for WG. You need to shoot gold at it to (reliably) pen the tank. The thing itself needs to shoot gold to reliably pen other tanks it regularly faces in battle.

Derethim #8 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:46 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 07 September 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

 

So tanks that freeloaders don't get is a big problem? Can't see that at all, as long as they aren't iconic tanks like Tigers, Chieftains, T-54s, Panthers, Pattons etc. then what is the issue? 90% of premiums are weird prototypes or paper tanks. Is anyone coming into this game upset they can't get an STG or a Jagdtiger 88 or an FV4202? I seriously doubt it. 

 

There wouldn't be a game without people spending money and a lot of that money comes from premium tanks.

 

Also Skorpion is not OP, simply isn't. Defender yeh, Chrysler K probably, tanks like that but a big paper target with low HP, no armour and terrible camo is not going to be OP. Strong in the right hands no doubt and great credit earner, especially in the terrible tier 8 MM but OP? nah. 

 

Tanks like the Jagdtiger 88, Panther mit 88, FV4202, Chi-nu-Kai, Matilda BP, M4 Ravioli, Pz. T25, Primo, Valentine II, Matilda IV, Churchill III ... you get the picture. Those are completely fine and I actually support them.

Same with tanks like the the tier 8 T34, or the Foch, that became premium, when they replaced them.

 

But, for example, the Tur I, Tur II and Tur III were in many tank games and it's a pretty popular tank to add in a game, now I can't get it just because I don't have 100€ (example, I know it doesen't cost so much).

WG tends to sell tanks for prices, for which you could have 2 different full games. Both AAA titles and both made in 2017.

 

Another thing they do is, they add 3 different versions in the tech trees as separate tanks and then release a completely different tank as a premium, making the tech tree lose diversity and making it more boring.

 

It's not a big issue, but I'd prefer it being the other way, like with the tanks I named. Different versions of tanks already in the tech tree.


Edited by Derethim, 07 September 2017 - 07:50 PM.


scrontch #9 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:54 PM

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My thoughts:

- A great deal of latest T8 tanks are OP. This is particular frustrating for regular players as the idea behind Premium tanks was that they should be slightly UP compared to regular fully researched tanks. This makes sense when taking into account that you dont need to grind and also enjoy all the other advantages (crew training, credits etc.). It used to be a silent general agreement that you can buy a tank that gives you all this but slightly less good on teh battlefield. Recent T8 Prems have broken that agreement. Pay to save time is considered ok by most, pay to win is not.

- The sheer number of T8 tanks presses them in games where they come up low-tier more often. (Still need to have official numbers on that, but seems plausible at least). T8 is now the most played tier.

- The high and ever increasing number of T8s makes it a nuisance for casual players because you have to learn more weakspots every couple of weeks. I have other things to do in life.

 



Kartoshkaya #10 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:54 PM

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Skorp not op xD

 

So i guess we need something more op than the defender to see you calling the defender not op too ?

 

You're a joke



Dava_117 #11 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:00 PM

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I agree with Tajj7. As soon this new premium are balance, I don't have any problem with them. Actually I have more problem with jap derps and maus like tanks than with a Defender or Patriot.

And as F2P I don't mind too much I can't unlock this tanks. Except historical Tiger 131 and the Defender skin, there aren't much thing I feel I need...



Balc0ra #12 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:01 PM

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See the thing is that sure there have been plenty of premiums of late. But not everyone trains the same crew class or nation. And nor do some tanks fit everyone style of play that everyone is interested in them, regardless of how "OP" they are. I have enough crew trainers and income machines on some nations. So don't really need more. So I've not had much interest in the recent premiums.

 

So you could say they are spamming premiums, or covering the classes and basics for everyone's style of play, crew training and income. Take your pick. Sure the upcoming Russian medium is released close after a previous one. And the French TD is not far out. But besides the Pak 40 that is now removed, and the 155 that not everyone got. It's the only option for a crew trainer for most in that nation. Just like the Russian medium will be for some now etc, as the tech tree Matilda IV is not something everyone goes for. And the rear turreted higher alpha variant support medium, might be more appealing vs the even buffed more aggressive T-54 mod 1. Who knows. Ofc... balance is also a factor, and the upcoming premiums don't even look close to OP. Not even the German tier 8 VK.. if it ever arrives.


Edited by Balc0ra, 07 September 2017 - 08:04 PM.


Gkirmathal #13 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:06 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 07 September 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

...

Is it holding up rebalances? Not really, we've just had 29 tanks having some sort of change in the last patch. 

...

 

I'd like to say it's more like 'hindering rebalances'.

Cause WG set themselves a precedence of not nerfing premiums again. This hinders properly rebalancing a game like this and in turn does hold up it up in the long run. The rebalancing gets more and more catch-22-like, a.k. harder to do, as more boderlining near op or outstanding (in specialty) new content gets implemented.

 

But heck that's just how I see it and I crossed the 'caring line' a few months ago already.



Schepel #14 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:23 PM

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Hm, don't see it in the shop? No announcement or anything?

Balc0ra #15 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:24 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 07 September 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

Hm, don't see it in the shop? No announcement or anything?

 

New Russian? NA only atm.

Schepel #16 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:26 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 07 September 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

 

New Russian? NA only atm.

 

Ah, ok. I was wondering if I was living in a parallel universe. :-)

Browarszky #17 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:29 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 07 September 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

 

Ah, ok. I was wondering if I was living in a parallel universe. :-)

 

You hit closer to the truth than you may have realized...

Asghaad #18 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:35 PM

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i wonder why some people still consider Scorpion to be "crazy overpowered" ... im looking at comparison to its competition and i kinda do not see anything OP about it ...

 

https://tanks.gg/com...eer~amx-cda-105

 

 

no camo

no armor

gun is comparable to other T8 TDs

max speed is nice, too bad its pure science fiction thanks to atrocious ground resistances

hull traverse speed is terrible

pen is pretty low for a TD

viewrange is terrible

 

...

 

 

as for premium tank spam lately - who cares, as long as they avoid broken stuff like 252U or Chrysler and give us more tanks like Lorraine or Primo Victoria i couldnt care less if they introduce one new prem tank every month. What irks me more is that they made most old premiums absolutely obsolete.



jorgito #19 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:43 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 07 September 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

 

New Russian? NA only atm.

 

I see one in eu.

lord_chipmonk #20 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:49 PM

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I can see the moaning in as much as there have been a lot of premiums lately, and perhaps people feel there are some issues with the game itself that could do with some of that attention. 

 

Having said that, I don't personally have a massive issue. I put this tank in a similar category as the PV. Overpowered? No. Hideously game braking? No. "Clown" skin? Sure. Do I hate it? No. I mean, it isn't another Defender (though granted, that isn't setting the bar too high). 

 

Might look into it at some point, but can't really justify either this or the Chinese TD right now since I bought the PV. 


Edited by lord_chipmonk, 07 September 2017 - 08:52 PM.





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