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Can the Black Prince get a normal gun for it's tier?


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Derethim #1 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:32 PM

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I don't own it yet, but I have never been killed by one in my lifetime.

This thing has great armor, is slow as crap and has ... what to balance it?

The gun?

This thing has 171mm of penetration with AP rounds. 171!

And it's top speed is 20?

 

A monkey typing random things in the stats would do a better job, than the balance department, when it comes to this tank.

It needs to get balanced, asap. The best way would be giving it at least 200mm of penetration - or more, since it is so slow.

Why are unbalanced tanks like this even in here?



leggasiini #2 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:43 PM

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171 pen is not even the worst thing about the gun

 

It has 150 alpha with bad DPM and 0.19 turret traverse bloom lol. Thanks to that bloom the gun is arguably worse than tier 6 heavies. Yes, tier 6, not tier 7



Derethim #3 Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:51 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 07 September 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

171 pen is not even the worst thing about the gun

 

It has 150 alpha with bad DPM and 0.19 turret traverse bloom lol. Thanks to that bloom the gun is arguably worse than tier 6 heavies. Yes, tier 6, not tier 7

 

Yup, even when you hit, you do nothing.

IS and IS-2 at least have a great damage to balance out, this has nothing.

 

But what we don't have yet ingame and what would follow the british line here, is a HT with low alpha, high pen, low refire and high accuracy and slow velocity.


Edited by Derethim, 07 September 2017 - 07:52 PM.


Balc0ra #4 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:09 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 07 September 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

171 pen is not even the worst thing about the gun

 

It has 150 alpha with bad DPM and 0.19 turret traverse bloom lol. Thanks to that bloom the gun is arguably worse than tier 6 heavies. Yes, tier 6, not tier 7

 

Low DPM was the only thing I hated about it. Not the pen. So you did crappy trades more of then then not, even if you got 2-3 shots in.

 

Considering the 20 ponders are getting removed from the tier 8 and 9 soon, and replaced with a 32 pdr. And even the tier 7 TD The Challenger is getting a 32 pdr. I don't see why they can't add the 20 pdr to that and even the tier 7 FV201.



lord_chipmonk #5 Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:56 PM

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The armour is also not the best. You can chew through with any tier 7 HT gun is you know what you're doing most of the time with ease. 

AliceUnchained #6 Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:07 PM

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Been ages since I played it, and almost never encounter one (or at the very least get the engage it frontally) but couldn't you actually penetrate it frontally through the track? Or was that the Churchill only? In any case, BP should get a larger caliber gun for sure. Historical accuracy be damned.

lord_chipmonk #7 Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:08 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 07 September 2017 - 09:07 PM, said:

Been ages since I played it, and almost never encounter one (or at the very least get the engage it frontally) but couldn't you actually penetrate it frontally through the track? Or was that the Churchill only? In any case, BP should get a larger caliber gun for sure. Historical accuracy be damned.

 

Yes you can, but the frontal hull actually has worse effective armour (at least unangled). 

AliceUnchained #8 Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:13 AM

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View Postlord_chipmonk, on 07 September 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

Yes you can, but the frontal hull actually has worse effective armour (at least unangled). 

 

Looking at tanks.gg now it would seem everything through the tracks either is 'absorbed' or a 'ricochet' even for the Tier V. Perhaps the models changed a bit since I last played them, which admittedly was at least over 3 years ago. Looking at the BP is just doesn't seem like much of an upgrade over the Tier VI Churchill VII, even when the BP is an improvement in many area's. Strangely enough, I now notice the BP actually loses DPM ver the Tier VI Churchil VII although I don't think DPM really is the biggest issue with the BP. That 150 average damage simply doesn't cut it for a heavy tank at Tier VII in World of PeekaBoom.

Geno1isme #9 Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:57 AM

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The sad thing is that the Black Prince is actually a massive upgrade over the T6 british heavy as the armor mostly works (no 20mm roof, no inside drivewheel to shoot) and you get double the gun-depression.

Cobra6 #10 Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:07 AM

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I own it and the worst part is both having no speed *AND* no effective armour at the same time. Sure the armour looks good on paper but in-game it's beyond pathetic, everything you meet will pretty much pen you.

 

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Dr_Oolen #11 Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:20 AM

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Grinded to fv215b 2 weeks ago. Can confirm that black prince is better than caernarvon despite being whole tier lower. Ive "recently" played quite a few useless tanks, caernarvon takes the cake easily as being the biggest turd of them all. The thing is all the other useless tanks at least had one thing about them that could be abused in some situations (such as black princes turret and ability not to give a [edited]about some tanks it meets) but caernarvon has literally nothing good about it at all that can be in any way leveraged. No armor, no alpha, no dpm, no gun handling, no speed, no hull down ability, only accuracy, and we all know how useful that stat is in the game. That said, do i think black prince is good? No, its still a  turd of a tank, but can be made to work reasonably often. Id just buff its top speed to 28 and buffed reload to be some 3.4s rather than 4.1s with the setup i had on it. Then it would be pretty good. And id be strictly against giving it higher alpha gun, theres simply no need to have all the tanks in the game have the same kinds of guns at the same tiers, especially since it can be perfectly balanced with 150 alpha.

 



AliceUnchained #12 Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:26 AM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 08 September 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

The sad thing is that the Black Prince is actually a massive upgrade over the T6 british heavy as the armor mostly works (no 20mm roof, no inside drivewheel to shoot) and you get double the gun-depression.

 

The armor works only against lower Tiers and/or lower penetration guns.

 

View PostDr_Oolen, on 08 September 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

And id be strictly against giving it higher alpha gun, theres simply no need to have all the tanks in the game have the same kinds of guns at the same tiers, especially since it can be perfectly balanced with 150 alpha.

 

Tier VI and VII are already riddled with 75 mm, 76.2 mm, 7.5 cm, 77 mm, and 17-pounder guns. Average damage at 150 simply doesn't cut it for a Heavy Tank at Tier VII in the corridor meta we have now, even if you managed to make it work with a handful of battles.

 


Edited by AliceUnchained, 08 September 2017 - 10:30 AM.


Tilly042 #13 Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:34 AM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 08 September 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

Grinded to fv215b 2 weeks ago. Can confirm that black prince is better than caernarvon despite being whole tier lower. Ive "recently" played quite a few useless tanks, caernarvon takes the cake easily as being the biggest turd of them all. The thing is all the other useless tanks at least had one thing about them that could be abused in some situations (such as black princes turret and ability not to give a [edited]about some tanks it meets) but caernarvon has literally nothing good about it at all that can be in any way leveraged. No armor, no alpha, no dpm, no gun handling, no speed, no hull down ability, only accuracy, and we all know how useful that stat is in the game. That said, do i think black prince is good? No, its still a  turd of a tank, but can be made to work reasonably often. Id just buff its top speed to 28 and buffed reload to be some 3.4s rather than 4.1s with the setup i had on it. Then it would be pretty good. And id be strictly against giving it higher alpha gun, theres simply no need to have all the tanks in the game have the same kinds of guns at the same tiers, especially since it can be perfectly balanced with 150 alpha.

 

Never a truer word said.  But for some reason I cannot fathom, I still play the Caravan quite often despite it being so rubbish.  And the BP for that matter!!



arthurwellsley #14 Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:34 AM

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On the Tidal Force/ Baldrickk tank OPness level

 

BlackPrince = 0.06910494231005922

Caernarvon = -2.513212328911081

 

So statistically as Dr_Oolen suggests the Caernarvon is worse tier for tier than the BlackPrince. Neither of them are particularly good.

 

Statistic rating source = http://forum.worldof..._st__60#topmost



thestaggy #15 Posted 08 September 2017 - 11:18 AM

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I farmed one from full health in my tier 6 VK 3001(D) last night. The combination of poor mobility and flaccid gun kill this thing.

 

I hated every moment of playing it and I feel pity for the poor souls I see playing them.



Geno1isme #16 Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:01 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 08 September 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

The armor works only against lower Tiers and/or lower penetration guns.

 

Well, the turret is pretty tough except for the cupola, and the hull is good enough to deal with up to 150mm in many situations. Of course against a Tiger or T8 tanks the armor is mostly pointless, but that's true for most T7 tanks.

Compared with the Churchill which could be penned and tracked frontally by basically every tank in the game it is a massive upgrade, esp. as you can play it hulldown unlike the Churchill.

 

Mind I'm not saying that it is a good tank, even if you'd make the armor godlike and give it a good gun it would still be crippled by the speed limit.


Edited by Geno1isme, 08 September 2017 - 12:04 PM.


How_hard_can_it_be #17 Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:05 PM

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Just give it some speed and insane DPM to make up for the rest of its turdiness.

lord_chipmonk #18 Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:32 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 08 September 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

Looking at tanks.gg now it would seem everything through the tracks either is 'absorbed' or a 'ricochet' even for the Tier V. Perhaps the models changed a bit since I last played them, which admittedly was at least over 3 years ago. Looking at the BP is just doesn't seem like much of an upgrade over the Tier VI Churchill VII, even when the BP is an improvement in many area's. Strangely enough, I now notice the BP actually loses DPM ver the Tier VI Churchil VII although I don't think DPM really is the biggest issue with the BP. That 150 average damage simply doesn't cut it for a heavy tank at Tier VII in World of PeekaBoom.

 

Yeah, seems they did change it. BP armour is still rather dubious unless hull down. 



SandDanAdua #19 Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:36 PM

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BP and Caravan are the reason i'm not ever going down this masochistic grind.

Derethim #20 Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:37 PM

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It should get better armor and more pen then... 




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