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KV5 - A good tier 7 Prem?

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clixor #21 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:26 AM

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View PostTimewarp76, on 13 September 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

 

 This is some bs data if I've ever seen it. First most KV5 players are not even playing with the tank in the current meta, 167mm of penetration just doesn't work.  There are very few games if any that I can think of since the last two patches that you even see a KV5 in game so move along with the crap data dump.

 

 

It must be a more recent curve, because the old (pre-mm change) curve the KV-5 was overperforming quite a bit. Hell, in a old Q&A even WG stated that they probably overbuffed it and were looking at ways in nerfing it. 

 

And then came the MM changes, the first in which you only got all tier8 battles, and where the KV-5 was still playable. But then the 3/5/7 implementation was done where you saw only 5/10 battles meaning you were facing tier9s each and every battle.

 

So first solution, aside from buffs, is to make the 3/5/7 mm work for SMM/PMM tanks, meaning you will at least see tier7s and not that much tier9s. The KV-5 still wouldn't be competitive with the new tier8 prems, but at least it could be more useful.



MeetriX #22 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:26 AM

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How about increase income a bit and make new broken tier 8 tanks a tier 9?

scorpiontank1 #23 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:32 AM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 12 September 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Yep can't agree more to what the one above me wrote.

 

They have to rebalance the new tier 8 tanks that broke the balance in the first place and balance tier 9 and 10 to the tiers below it and stop buffing the crap out of the mid tiers to match the higher tiers because we will end up with the same unbalance we got now.

 

by nerfing the IS-3? 

 

IS-3 used to be the master race , but not any more since the  introduction of new generation premuims 



NervosCuNervii #24 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:32 AM

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View Postclixor, on 13 September 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

So first solution, aside from buffs, is to make the 3/5/7 mm work for SMM/PMM tanks, meaning you will at least see tier7s and not that much tier9s. The KV-5 still wouldn't be competitive with the new tier8 prems, but at least it could be more useful.

This would imply something like the old MM rule in which if you played the same tank for 3-4 battles in a row and ended up bottom tier in all of them, then the MM would "force" a rule and made you at least mid-tier.



pagandk #25 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:40 AM

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View PostTimewarp76, on 13 September 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

 

 This is some bs data if I've ever seen it. First most KV5 players are not even playing with the tank in the current meta, 167mm of penetration just doesn't work.  There are very few games if any that I can think of since the last two patches that you even see a KV5 in game so move along with the crap data dump.

 

 

Personally I don't like the KV-5, but saying data is [edited].. Is that you Mr. Trump?

Hokum15 #26 Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:51 AM

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I think all the pref MM tanks should be re-balanced and given full MM. Some maybe better at tier 7 and others at tier 8. People who want to should be able to refund the value of the tank for gold if they are unhappy, so they can either buy new tanks or premium etc. It seems to be the only course of action which is realistic. 

IS-6 give it Guard ammo, and it would probably be fine as is.
FCM 50T Give it better gun handling and maybe a slight turret frontal armour buff and it'll be fine, or move to tier 7 as it is very like the VK4503

JT 8.8, maybe a higher pen standard and prem ammo and it should be fine.

Spersh, Pen buff and maybe a slight engine buff.

T-34-3, pen, guard like ammo again and gun handling buff 

112 and WZ 111, pen buff and should be fine

 

 



anonym_MSqPBzxRtsaO #27 Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:02 AM

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KV-5 at Tier 7 would need a healthpool nerf, but it would not be unprecedented - we already have the O-Ni with 1550 health and 330/190 gun of a smaller caliber than KV-5, and similar armor (thinner side but no retarded radioman nest for easy pens).

I doubt they'll do that though, so at best we could expect a better gun performance (KV-5 has the T-150 gun ffs).
 



tajj7 #28 Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:05 AM

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View PostTimewarp76, on 13 September 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

 

 This is some bs data if I've ever seen it. First most KV5 players are not even playing with the tank in the current meta, 167mm of penetration just doesn't work.  There are very few games if any that I can think of since the last two patches that you even see a KV5 in game so move along with the crap data dump.

 

 

84k battles in the last month according to that site, so that is more than enough of a sample to show that curve is fine. Also it's overall win rate is the highest it's been for about 2 years. 

 

Facts > opinions, whatever you feel about the tank, it is not performing badly. As someone above says, it used to be OP, as did the IS-6, the 112 still is as well.

 

Limited MM tanks like the T-34-3, FCM 50T and Type 59 are performing worse than the IS-6, KV-5, WZ-111 and 112, despite the claims about the pen.  Armour in the current meta makes a massive difference. 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

EDIT: also everyone does know that the O-Ni is massively overperforming yeh? So 'just make it like the O-ni' is not a solution at all. 


Edited by tajj7, 13 September 2017 - 11:07 AM.


LikePike #29 Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:49 PM

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Overall the KV-5 gets f***ed by the current MM:

  • It struggles against almost all tier 8 tanks, everyone with 180+ mm can pen the gun mantlet, I'm not even talking about the R2D2.
  • 167 mm pen is bad against most tier 8 tanks, 219 is nothing against tier 9 tanks.
  • Most of the games (~60%) are against tier 9 tanks, otherwise you get full tier 8 battles (~25%), sometimes (~15%) you're lucky to fight lower tiers.

 

Because of these MM changes, the average damage went down and also the credit income.

 

I stopped playing the KV-5 because of this. :mellow:

 

I don't think moving this tank down to tier 7 won't change much. If the MM doesn't change, it needs some love (removal of frontal weakspots (while reducing side armor and HP) and more penetration).

 

Data source:

http://wotraw.ru/en/...e/R54_KV-5.html

Attached Files

  • Attached File   KV-5_MM.png   106.38K
  • Attached File   KV-5_damage.png   97.39K
  • Attached File   KV-5_credits.png   96.44K


Enforcer1975 #30 Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:28 PM

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View Postscorpiontank1, on 13 September 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

by nerfing the IS-3?

 

IS-3 used to be the master race , but not any more since the  introduction of new generation premuims

 

I meant the new tanks that powercreeped the IS-3 and it's a lot of them.

Balc0ra #31 Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:45 PM

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View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 12 September 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

 

Wait... personal changes?

Does that imply that the guy responsible for the Defender has been fired? :teethhappy:

 

Well yes and no. As just about everyone that had to do with the old balance factors before the Defender don't work with WOT anymore. Thus the drastic change of direction of late. Only a handful of those again have left WG since. Inc the one that said "TVP can take on a Defender"

denisdenikr #32 Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:50 PM

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View Postscorpiontank1, on 13 September 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

by nerfing the IS-3? 

 

IS-3 used to be the master race , but not any more since the  introduction of new generation premuims 

 

Well... new premiums just show how IS-3 was broken tank before those premiums... In curent meta it is still stronk tank, but  now it has some competition to face... And i would still rather take IS-3 then Defender... 

Edited by denisdenikr, 13 September 2017 - 01:50 PM.


fwhaatpiraat #33 Posted 13 September 2017 - 04:48 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 13 September 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

For 90% of the playerbase it's performing fine in the current meta -

 

Posted Image

 

Which is why it's a tricky rebalance and why WG are taking a while with it, cos basically these limited MM heavies could be easily OP. Hell the IS6 used to be massively OP. 

 

It would be far too strong as a tier 7, without heavy nerfs which would probably make it unfun to play. 

 

Don't forget that 2 tanks - one with regular mm and one with preferential mm - with the same graph show that the tank with normal mm is stronger than the other one. A Pz B2 basically must have much higher statistics than expected, otherwise it would mean the tank even sucks as top tier tank all the time clubbing tier 3 tanks.

 

I agree the kv-5 doesn't feel that bad when played right, to me it actually feels really strong. But sometimes you just face 'some new premium tanks', and by just pointing their tank towards you they outplayed you, which seems rather silly to me tbh.







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