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velvetcough #1 Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:32 AM

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Hey guys...

 

Just wondering if my experience of this game is following a pattern other people saw themselves as they spent more time with this wonderfully compelling and complex video game.

I first came across World of Tanks in the form of Blitz on my wee phone - a Motorola Moto G.  I was pretty crap, but I was quickly addicted, finding myself spending money to do things like equip tanks, free xp-ing to what I wanted, and buying the occasional premium.  Soon my phone wasn't enough, and I bought myself a Nvidia Shield tablet to enjoy WOT more.  I didn't get any better, but I got more and more into everything to do with tanking, watching streamers, checking out tanks.gg and joining this here forum.  

I think from first playing Blitz to giving up the Shield to invest in a PC took about 6 months.  By the time I entered the world of desktop (serious) gaming, I had progressed too mostly tier 5, with most of my games played out in tiers 3-5. I've never played games on a PC, let alone owned one, but I spent £1000 to get me WOT at it's beautiful best.  I now have a garage where about ten fantastic tier 8 premiums sit largely unused because I don't want to do them a disservice by playing them badly.  I am generally just getting the lines I'm working moving from tier 5 to 6, and I'm still utterly absorbed by this game.  And unlike most of the people I read on here, I still get a kick out of buying things I want within the game. I have some beautiful tanks in my garage.

This is roundabout where my question comes in, because I'm sure my story is quite normal in respect of getting involved with WOT.  I'm aware that the game gets tougher the higher you go, and that practice makes perfect, but is it usual to be getting worse as I'm (to my mind) getting better.  I would say that I'm definitely a better player than I was at 3000 battles, say, but my stats are on a steady and continuous decline.  

I joined SGTA just before it folded and that did nothing to stop things.  The highest my Personal Rating has been was around 3500, and my win percentage was 52.50%.  As you can see, I'm now on about 3180 and about 49.60%, and it's a trend that continues downward even though I swear I'm playing better than I used to.

So this isn't a moan (and hopefully doesn't seem like one), as much as it's an appeal to see if other people went through the same thing as their battle count and tier level went up.

It's a lengthy way to go about it, but I'd be pleased to read other people's experiences of this game of ours.

 

p.s.  I've stopped using QB's mod to get rid of the stress on stats, dumped the Assistant app from my phone, and am playing the game vanilla in that respect.  I think I prefer it that way.

 

Thanks for reading & see you on the battlefield.

 

[...what a sincere little missive this is...lamb & slaughter spring to mind...cheers...] .



brumbarr #2 Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:41 AM

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Sometimes people hit a skillwall, and maybe you got stuck in your ways and need a fresh look to advanace. I wouldnt mind helping you.

_EXODUZ_ #3 Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:49 AM

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This is how my stats developed if you're curious about a personal story.

Your case can be easily analysed and corrected. First thing that comes to mind is that you play too many different tanks (40 over 7 days).

 

 

So, first of all, I'd advise to master specific aspects. Stick to meds, for example. Don't play arty. And keep asking questions, we'll gladly help you.



SuedKAT #4 Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:10 AM

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I had a look at various stats sites to get a clearer picture, the only thing that really have gone down is your win rate, apart from that you are slowly but steadily improving. With a only a quick look at tanks, tiers and battles played in those tanks I'd say the sole reason you see a declining win rate now is due to increasing in average tier and facing tanks you don't have experience facing and quite a few of them have very specific strengths and weaknesses that you over time will learn to exploit both when driving but also facing those tanks. At lower tiers a lot more tanks function the same way and you don't really need to know about the tanks that much, now your facing tanks with impenetrable turrets, high alpha, great mobility, great camo and so on, but they all have some kind of weakness as well, so a deeper understanding of the battle mechanics is needed if you want to be able to counter your enemies.

 

I learnt a lot from watching youtube reviews about every single tank and eventually I learnt enough to be able to judge a tanks values on my own, so that I highly recommend. However you've done something most don't, you've come to the forum and here you'll find people that can help and explain, but I would also urge you to visit this thread: http://forum.worldof...ishy-gold-bots/

It's the recruitment thread for the clan/community I'm in, we have/had close ties to SGTA a lot of our members have came from there and even if you won't find the same ambition regarding teaching that SGTA had you'll find a bunch of weird [edited]nubs that for the most part have no problems helping out when needed ;)

 

Here are two videos and a playlist I'd recommend:

 


Edited by SuedKAT, 13 September 2017 - 03:14 AM.


laulaur #5 Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:22 AM

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View Post_EXODUZ_, on 13 September 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

This is how my stats developed if you're curious about a personal story.

Your case can be easily analysed and corrected. First thing that comes to mind is that you play too many different tanks (40 over 7 days).

 

 

So, first of all, I'd advise to master specific aspects. Stick to meds, for example. Don't play arty. And keep asking questions, we'll gladly help you.

 

What site did you used to get that data? Looks useful.

And i agree 40 tanks played in 7 days is way too much, try to play/grind 5-10 tanks at a time - not all tech three. :)

Arty is a WN8 sink, and you can not either influence the fate of the game usually.



somegras #6 Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:25 AM

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View Postlaulaur, on 13 September 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

 

What site did you used to get that data? Looks useful.

And i agree 40 tanks played in 7 days is way too much, try to play/grind 5-10 tanks at a time - not all tech three. :)

Arty is a WN8 sink, and you can not either influence the fate of the game usually.

 

That graph is from noobmeter, if I'm not mistaken. It is a bit outdated though, the site that is.



Mike_Mckay #7 Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:30 AM

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As someone else said I wouldn't worry about winrate, its probably one of the least useful stats as its dependant on so many factors outside of your control like the balance of the teams, the difference in health pools, starting location, how many tanks are stock/fully upgraded, how many people spam nothing but skill rounds, % of crew mastery, how long people have had a tank, equipment and cammo or lack thereof and on and on and on

The kill/death ratio, damage done and stats along those lines will give a better picture although also take into account the characteristics of each vehicle as getting 1500 damage average in a tank might look ok, but does the tank do 750 alpha or 150? Also you do have to allow to some extent for the fact that as you move up the tiers the guns shooting at you will hit harder and the armour youre shooting at gets thicker and what might seem like good damage stats at one tier might not be as good 2 or 3 tiers higher when your DPM and alpha as well as the available health pool are all larger

I don't think winrate should really be deemed important early on though and its certainly not worth stressing over as its main factor is your ability to influence the outcome of the game. So if youre the only orange in a game where everyone else is red then yeah, you might play a major role in the outcome consistently. But if youre the only orange in a game with 29 greens and purples then barring some very rare occasions youre not really going to make much difference to the outcome at all.

Average damage is probably the key to when winrate starts to be worth watching in that if you do an average of 1000 damage in a particular tank and a unicum does an average of 3500 in the same tank then in far more games what they do is likely to decide whether the game is won or lost than what you do. The more your average damage increases the more games where your input "could" make the difference and in games where the differential in damage done between the winning and losing team is 10k damage your 1k wouldn't have changed the outcome at all and not that many games at the moment seem to end with a nail biting photo finish plus even if they did many games have healthpools where one is 2/3 of the other anyway

Winrate is much more significant in 1v1 type games but doesn't really start to be important in team games until you are at a level where your consistent (nor occasional) contribution becomes quite significant

After all, how many times have you done barely anything or died right at the start but won or had an absolutely blinding way above your average game and lost? So how would your winrate "reflect" those games?
 

Edited by Mike_Mckay, 13 September 2017 - 06:31 AM.


Emeraldweed #8 Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:24 AM

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What broke the wall for me was platooning with a unicum, you have a playstyle that in your mindset is correct and logic, yet it's completely wrong. this mindset breaks up the more battles you get ( if you have the learning attitude that you do )

 Stop playing a large variety of tanks within the day, every tank is unique in positioning, playstyle etc. its impossible for your brain to adapt to each playstyle after every battle. Pick a tank that you wanna play and another one standby for those matches that you die quickly, and make sure their playstyle is similar. 

 Try to get some friends that have higher skillset than you and platoon with them, and listen to them. no guide will truly teach you how to play but they will help you learn the basics and get you into the correct learning path. after that you are on your own.



Mimos_A #9 Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:49 AM

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View PostMike_Mckay, on 13 September 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

As someone else said I wouldn't worry about winrate, its probably one of the least useful stats as its dependant on so many factors outside of your control like the balance of the teams, the difference in health pools, starting location, how many tanks are stock/fully upgraded, how many people spam nothing but skill rounds, % of crew mastery, how long people have had a tank, equipment and cammo or lack thereof and on and on and on

The kill/death ratio, damage done and stats along those lines will give a better picture although also take into account the characteristics of each vehicle as getting 1500 damage average in a tank might look ok, but does the tank do 750 alpha or 150? Also you do have to allow to some extent for the fact that as you move up the tiers the guns shooting at you will hit harder and the armour youre shooting at gets thicker and what might seem like good damage stats at one tier might not be as good 2 or 3 tiers higher when your DPM and alpha as well as the available health pool are all larger

I don't think winrate should really be deemed important early on though and its certainly not worth stressing over as its main factor is your ability to influence the outcome of the game. So if youre the only orange in a game where everyone else is red then yeah, you might play a major role in the outcome consistently. But if youre the only orange in a game with 29 greens and purples then barring some very rare occasions youre not really going to make much difference to the outcome at all.

Average damage is probably the key to when winrate starts to be worth watching in that if you do an average of 1000 damage in a particular tank and a unicum does an average of 3500 in the same tank then in far more games what they do is likely to decide whether the game is won or lost than what you do. The more your average damage increases the more games where your input "could" make the difference and in games where the differential in damage done between the winning and losing team is 10k damage your 1k wouldn't have changed the outcome at all and not that many games at the moment seem to end with a nail biting photo finish plus even if they did many games have healthpools where one is 2/3 of the other anyway

Winrate is much more significant in 1v1 type games but doesn't really start to be important in team games until you are at a level where your consistent (nor occasional) contribution becomes quite significant

After all, how many times have you done barely anything or died right at the start but won or had an absolutely blinding way above your average game and lost? So how would your winrate "reflect" those games?
 

 

Please don't put this kind of crap in the head of someone actually looking for help.

 

You can do pretty good average damage and have a good k/d ratio but still actively maintain a bad wr by doing it to the wrong targets at the wrong moments in the wrong positions.

 

To the OP:

Watch some streams and youtube vids. Especially taking key positions on maps is really important. Make your minimap big and always keep an eye on what's happening around you and on the rest of the map, don't stay zoomed in sniper mode between shots to avoid tunnelvision. If you lose or die, try to think through your decisions and where you should/could have made better decisions. Try to anticipate what position what tanks might be in and how to counter them. Always take the countdown timer to look at the teamlist and see what the strengths of your team and the enemy team are.

 

I guess that's a start ;) good luck man and always feel free to ask.

 

 


Edited by Mimos_A, 13 September 2017 - 08:01 AM.


shishx_the_animal #10 Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:10 AM

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View PostMike_Mckay, on 13 September 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

As someone else said I wouldn't worry about winrate, its probably one of the least useful stats as its dependant on so many factors outside of your control like the balance of the teams, the difference in health pools, starting location, how many tanks are stock/fully upgraded, how many people spam nothing but skill rounds, % of crew mastery, how long people have had a tank, equipment and cammo or lack thereof and on and on and on

 

Yeah... okay.

Kozzy #11 Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:22 AM

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View PostMike_Mckay, on 13 September 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

As someone else said I wouldn't worry about winrate,... blah blah blah....

 

Someone may have said it but they were wrong (and probably had a low WR coincidentally).

 

We all have the same chance to be given teams made of the same players from the same player pool along with the same chance to encounter the same variables.  What you manage to do in games with those variables is what defines your ability and gets you the stats you have.

 

Quite simply, a better player WILL, over enough games, have better stats than a worse player over the same number of games.

 

Anyway, what you are doing will help - asking advice on the forums.  I would say play fewer tanks, focus on lines that have stronger tanks (at least to being with) watch videos from good players and maybe get some platoons with really good players (ask on the forums) so they can show you what they would do.

 

You could actually ignore all of this and just follow the recently popular mindset (again, one employed by players who, coincidentally again, have crap stats) that the game is rigged (because reasons) and you cannot influence your own stats (despite good players doing exactly this).



Spurtung #12 Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:56 AM

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View PostMike_Mckay, on 13 September 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

As someone else said I wouldn't worry about winrate, its probably one of the least useful stats as its dependant on so many factors outside of your control like the balance of the teams, the difference in health pools, starting location, how many tanks are stock/fully upgraded, how many people spam nothing but skill rounds, % of crew mastery, how long people have had a tank, equipment and cammo or lack thereof and on and on and on

You're wrong, multiple people told you you're wrong.

Accept that, learn from it, and please stop spreading utter BS.



jabster #13 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:16 AM

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As has been already said it looks as though you finding the normal situation that although you are improving you're also moving up the tiers so meeting better players. The result being you win-rate doesn't also improve inline with your other stats.

 

For improving your play try uploading some replays to WoT Replays and then linking them here so players can give you advice. You could also login to the forumites in-game channel (pw:play4fun) and see if anyone wants to platoon with you.



shishx_the_animal #14 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:38 AM

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@OP, how willing are you to learn this game and not look for tinfoil conspiracies?

TungstenHitman #15 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:39 AM

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There are always ways to improve and I don't believe there is a some sort of skill wall a person hits in terms of they are simply unable to play any better than that.. I don't believe that for one second. What can happen is players can pick up some bad habits or become of a victim of their own early success. What I mean by that is, a player might have done something or gone to some location during a battle and it worked very well so they naturally think that this is a rinse and repeat finding but it might actually have been a case of that was a very low percentage result that one time and every time they repeat it they get killed or have very little success. 

 

I still learn new things all the time and love those little "Eureka!!" moments when I discover a new or obvious solution or playstyle to best suit the situation or tank or opponent. But continue to ask questions to the guys here on the forum they are good guys and know a lot of stuff about this game. They have enlightened me many times and continue to do so with their little tips and tricks that can make all the difference both with battle strategies and just getting the most out of crew and credits and tank layouts etc.. there's just so much ways to be better at this game.

 

Even during one battle I was ranting and raging about the map I got drawn because it totally didn't suit my tank but one of my teammates suggested a particular location and it was an absolute gem I would never have thought of using and had a beast round.. I had no idea at the time but that player turned out to be 44% win rate, who'd a thunk it.. never discredit anyone's opinion based on win rate the guy knew his stuff



Baldrickk #16 Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:57 AM

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From looking at battles at each tier and WR graphs of OP, I'm going to guess that the fall in WR coincides with the end if the "newb protection".

Since Proving ground and the "newb protection" were introduced, it's a common trend that early game stats are inflated, and start to rapidly fall once those periods are finished.

I expect, as much as anything else that this is going on here.

Timewarp76 #17 Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:13 AM

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@velvetcough I've reviewed your stats and pretty much they look like normal progression. As expected you have some tier 1s with over 50 battles and 60%+- win rate, you  fall a bit at tier 2 (more dmg, faster tanks) and then peak again at tier 3, you drop again at tier 4 but manage to prop your stats up with your Churchill 3 play (100+ games and 57% w/r) and as expected at tier 5 you start dropping off which is normal since tier 1-4 games are more about avoiding getting shot and beek-a-boo tactics and not so much about armor use.

At tier 5 most gamers start to really utilize armor as well as camo and view range and the higher the tier the more this becomes relevant. A lot of experienced Wot players don't play under tier 5 often because they are credit grinding and because of that you also start to run into higher trained crews and of course at tier 5 and up there are many more experienced players. Start focusing on armor use / angling, vehicle weak points and hitting your shots don’t waste time missing and you will be fine. The Average Wot player is around the 49% W/R mark so you are right in there. Good luck !


Edited by Timewarp76, 13 September 2017 - 10:14 AM.


laulaur #18 Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:16 AM

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View Postsomegras, on 13 September 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

 

That graph is from noobmeter, if I'm not mistaken. It is a bit outdated though, the site that is.

 

Yes, i checked and indeed is from noobmeter. Thanks.

_EXODUZ_ #19 Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:17 AM

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View Postlaulaur, on 13 September 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

 

What site did you used to get that data? Looks useful.

And i agree 40 tanks played in 7 days is way too much, try to play/grind 5-10 tanks at a time - not all tech three. :)

Arty is a WN8 sink, and you can not either influence the fate of the game usually.

 

wotzilla.com and noobmeter.com

ApocalypseSquad #20 Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:19 AM

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What they said OP.  If you are going to use stats as a measure of your progress, win rate is the ONLY stat that matters.  This is a team game (ignore the nay-sayers, it is), and win rate is a measure of how much you have contributed to the team.

 

As for your temporary decline? - Others above have given you good reasons for this, it is all part of the learning curve as you go through the game.  Try not to stress about it unduly.  You are doing exactly the right things, asking questions, challenging your own performance and looking to improve.  It will all pay off.


 

Too many players when faced with the same problem just come on here to rant, blame rng, OP enemy tanks, arty, match "rigging" by WG, hack3rs, cheats, etc etc.  It's really nice to see someone come on with a positive attitude and a desire to Improve.  Very best of luck to you.

And finally, your w/r drop may be just a case of going through a bad patch.  It happens to all of us at some point or another.


 






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