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Should platooning be actively punished like now?

Platoons always bottom tier

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Poll: Platoon punishment (200 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Should the matchmaker actively punish platoons?

  1. I agree, platoons should be punished by pretty much always being bottom tier (29 votes [14.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.50%

  2. I disagree, platoons should have exactly the same matchmaking as a solo player (163 votes [81.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 81.50%

  3. I have no opinion on this matter / I do not platoon (8 votes [4.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.00%

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Cobra6 #1 Posted 16 September 2017 - 10:48 PM

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Hi guys,

 

Something that has really been bugging me for a while now is how the new matchmaker actively punishes platoons by putting them consistently as bottom tiers if you play anything else than T9 or T10 tanks. I'd really like to know the opinion of the community on this and maybe this will also get passed on via our EU forum staff to the devs.

 

What basically happens is that when you play solo, you get a fairly nice rotation of being bottom/mid/top tier, it's not always *perfect* but at least it *does* rotate over an hour or so play. Even when playing tiers like 6 and 8 you still do get lenient matchmaking.

However, as soon as you platoon up with a friend to try and play together in anything below tier 9 you are consistently thrown in the bottom tier of every match you play roughly 80%-90% of the time, in other words you are actively punished for trying to play with friends and having fun.

 

Do you think this is right? Do you think that platooning should be punished by the matchmaker or do you think platoons should have *exactly* the same matchmaking as a solo player?

 

Edit:

Spoiler

 

Cobra 6

 


Edited by Cobra6, 20 September 2017 - 11:44 AM.


laulaur #2 Posted 16 September 2017 - 11:06 PM

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Like you said, unless you are playing T9 or T10 tanks there is no reason to play platoon now - since you get almost always bottom tier as a platoon.

This is bad, really bad. Sometimes i feel like i play a single player game....



Sergeant_Antaro_Chronus #3 Posted 16 September 2017 - 11:23 PM

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This game is backwards.

 

You try pushing the front line? Unless the enemy is retarded and the RNG is with your side you will get obliterated by campers and arty. Solution; camp.

You want dynamic game play? Here take 10 maps that are made of three corridors to cater static game play and pretend to give a crap about heavy tanks. Also assist the camping TDs.

You want team play? Nope, most of the players are solo doing what ever the crap they think off and spew toxicity when ever they find the chance. Also you want to play with your friends and communicate to strengthen the team play aspect? Nope! Be bottom feeder so the toxic and  morons can feel good about them selves.  

You want balanced game play? HA! who you think you are? Here have a gun with 110 penetration and 85 damage, now go fight against tanks with 180mm effective armor and 400 alpha.


Edited by Sergeant_Antaro_Chronus, 18 September 2017 - 09:12 PM.


Shivvering #4 Posted 16 September 2017 - 11:36 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 16 September 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

Hi guys,

 

Something that has really been bugging me for a while now is how the new matchmaker actively punishes platoons by putting them consistently as bottom tiers if you play anything else than T9 or T10 tanks. I'd really like to know the opinion of the community on this and maybe this will also get passed on via our EU forum staff to the devs.

 

What basically happens is that when you play solo, you get a fairly nice rotation of being bottom/mid/top tier, it's not always *perfect* but at least it *does* rotate over an hour or so play. Even when playing tiers like 6 and 8 you still do get lenient matchmaking.

However, as soon as you platoon up with a friend to try and play together in anything below tier 9 you are consistently thrown in the bottom tier of every match you play roughly 80%-90% of the time, in other words you are actively punished for trying to play with friends and having fun.

 

Do you think this is right? Do you think that platooning should be punished by the matchmaker or do you think platoons should have *exactly* the same matchmaking as a solo player?

 

Cobra 6

 

 

Yes you should be punished. How dare you have friends!.

FluffyRedFox #5 Posted 16 September 2017 - 11:53 PM

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I bloody hate this part of the MM changes. I played WoT pretty much solely in  platoon with friends pre 9.18, then after the 9.18 changes I rarely platooned because getting constantly facerolled by +2 tanks isn't what I would call fun. Massive chunk of fun taken out for me, its a f*cking stupid change with no damn reason  for  it. 

Isharial #6 Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:32 AM

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on one hand, they should be lower weight than higher tier solo players, as 3 vs 1, even as 2 tiers higher solo isn't going to go well vs 3...

and on the other hand, why would you find such tiering fun?


 

I don't know which is better...


 

if you allow platoons to be top tier too often, they'll influence too many battles, but if you don't give them top tier enough, no one will really platoon because of it....


 

im on the fence with this



HundeWurst #7 Posted 17 September 2017 - 01:10 AM

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Spread some more lies will you now?

 

We all know that WGs system is perfect and above every questioning. So please with your stupid ideas. Keep them for yourself or the Spanish Inquisition might knock at your door sooner than later. And we all know why they say about them.

 

On a more serious side. By now it should be fairly obvious that WGs "new and improved MM" is a total failure. Who would have thought.... This game need +/- 1 MM. That would instantly fix so many problems. Yet obviously thats never gonna happen since WG would lose a tiny bit of their profits.

Sad story, yet true.


Edited by WunderWurst, 17 September 2017 - 01:13 AM.


Cobra6 #8 Posted 17 September 2017 - 10:04 AM

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View PostIsharial, on 16 September 2017 - 11:32 PM, said:

if you allow platoons to be top tier too often, they'll influence too many battles, but if you don't give them top tier enough, no one will really platoon because of it....
 

 

A platoon in itself has very little influence over the outcome of the battle though, two coordinated bad players will still do badly. A platoon of good players will have more influence indeed but the chances of you running into those are pretty small in this game.

Good players influence battles whether they are in a platoon or not, but why should they be punished because they are good and not be allowed to play with friends?

 

Before all the punishment began platoons were never an issue in randoms, why was it made into one by Wargaming and who did they listen to for this decision?

 

View PostWunderWurst, on 17 September 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

 

On a more serious side. By now it should be fairly obvious that WGs "new and improved MM" is a total failure. Who would have thought.... This game need +/- 1 MM. That would instantly fix so many problems. Yet obviously thats never gonna happen since WG would lose a tiny bit of their profits.

Sad story, yet true.

 

Yeah, a 5-10MM would actually be much more ideal indeed. But yes it would also make grinds "easier" which WG doesn't want as then people would be less inclined to spend free-XP to skip stock modules etc.

 

Cobra 6



Shivvering #9 Posted 17 September 2017 - 10:50 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 17 September 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

Spread some more lies will you now?

 

We all know that WGs system is perfect and above every questioning. So please with your stupid ideas. Keep them for yourself or the Spanish Inquisition might knock at your door sooner than later. And we all know why they say about them.

 

On a more serious side. By now it should be fairly obvious that WGs "new and improved MM" is a total failure. Who would have thought.... This game need +/- 1 MM. That would instantly fix so many problems. Yet obviously thats never gonna happen since WG would lose a tiny bit of their profits.

Sad story, yet true.

 

WG probably believe you can solo a Maus with a TVP VTU, so +1/-1 would be too easy.

hajoittaja #10 Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:07 AM

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Yes, it's f*cked up and I dont play platoons anywhere near as much as I used to because it's not fun being bottom tier nearly all the time (unless playing kv-2 or O-ho). This is one of the worst changes WG has made and it has to be fixed.

Yakito #11 Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:12 AM

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This is a big issue. My newbie friend just joined the game and I have to say that I do not enjoy platooning at low tiers and he also finishes our platoon sessions with a bitter taste.

I temporarily fixed the issue by buying a prefferential MM tanks for both of us but if we want to discover a tank line together we are royally fkd. Absolute pain. Stock tanks fighting +2 tiers every match. Soooo mush fun

Dava_117 #12 Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:12 AM

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Platoon should have the same chance solo players have, but I can also immagine how difficoult can be to solve the problem. Personally I like new mm. I feel the game as more balanced than before (being the only tier 6 in a full tier 8 battle is an experience I don't want to try again). 

My suggestion would be to increase the chance for platoon to end in a single tier battle. I ususally enjoy them a lot, so it may be a good compromise IMMO.



uglycousin #13 Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:42 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 17 September 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

Before all the punishment began platoons were never an issue in randoms, why was it made into one by Wargaming and who did they listen to for this decision?

 

There was an issue with platoons at one point. If you were to start a platoon by yourself, and join battle alone, you would always be top tier.

 

Interesting bug. Does not matter, after they fixed it, platoons were almost always bottom tier. I wonder if they screwed up back then by accident when they were fixing the platoon top tier bug?

 

I hope I am not spewing [edited]. :)



tajj7 #14 Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:43 AM

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Platoons are matched against other platoons, so aside from that they should get the same MM as anyone else.

 

Yeh having 3 top tiers in platoon in a 3-5-7 is powerful but that is part of the point of platooning, also they could all be terrible as most players are. But really 3-5-7 matches should the lowest priority out of all the templates because it essentially does not work. 

 

Should be 5-10 -> all tier -> 3-5-7 IMO. 



CoDiGGo #15 Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:52 AM

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They reduce power of platoons to decide games... to increse the power of mm to rig games

ID_100 #16 Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:23 PM

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Isharial #17 Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:26 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 17 September 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

Platoon should have the same chance solo players have, but I can also immagine how difficoult can be to solve the problem. Personally I like new mm. I feel the game as more balanced than before (being the only tier 6 in a full tier 8 battle is an experience I don't want to try again).

My suggestion would be to increase the chance for platoon to end in a single tier battle. I ususally enjoy them a lot, so it may be a good compromise IMMO.

 

this ^^^


 

I still have nightmares about being the only T6 vs an entire team of T8.. that was not fun, far less fun than being bottom tier in the new 3-5-7 system

I most certainly will take the new system over the old

this idea would work, and it wouldn't allow a 3 platoon of players to end up being the sole carrying force

I don't think anyone wants to return to the T7 games full of E25 when grinding their T5 stock tanks.... but that goes for any


 

View Posttajj7, on 17 September 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Platoons are matched against other platoons, so aside from that they should get the same MM as anyone else.

 

Yeh having 3 top tiers in platoon in a 3-5-7 is powerful but that is part of the point of platooning, also they could all be terrible as most players are. But really 3-5-7 matches should the lowest priority out of all the templates because it essentially does not work.

 

Should be 5-10 -> all tier -> 3-5-7 IMO.

 

aye, I agree with this for once... though it really needs a new MM structure such as 3-9-3, thereby making the mid tiers the most prominent

this wouldn't allow, for example in a T6-7-8 game, for the T8 to dominate, or the T6 to be clubbed


 

just a thought

 


Edited by Isharial, 17 September 2017 - 12:27 PM.


Cobra6 #18 Posted 17 September 2017 - 02:32 PM

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View PostID_100, on 17 September 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Spoiler

 

While I get your point, why do we need to punish everyone for issues/abuse some cause. That being said a platoon like this is just as powerful as a platoon of 3 Maus tanks for instance.

Shouldn't be a reason to chuck them in the bottom tier every match though.

People that play platoons like this just to watch the world burn are maybe 5% of the total playerbase, meanwhile with the new platoon MM the other 95% get punished as well for something they didn't do.

 

View Postuglycousin, on 17 September 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

There was an issue with platoons at one point. If you were to start a platoon by yourself, and join battle alone, you would always be top tier.

 

Interesting bug. Does not matter, after they fixed it, platoons were almost always bottom tier. I wonder if they screwed up back then by accident when they were fixing the platoon top tier bug?

 

That is actually an interesting point, it could indeed be connected.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 17 September 2017 - 02:33 PM.


Gkirmathal #19 Posted 17 September 2017 - 02:47 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 16 September 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

Do you think this is right? Do you think that platooning should be punished by the matchmaker or do you think platoons should have *exactly* the same matchmaking as a solo player?

 

 

I am of the opinion that WG is not actively punishing players who platoon on purpose. But rather that they are unable to correctly address this issue at this moment, whether this comes from: a) them being incapable, or b) key devs having left the MM dev team, or c) development being stonewalled by higher management decision making.

I think the latter c) is case, but the latter would not purposely shoot themselves in the foot. Thus I recon their 'projected figures' must doing alright still, otherwise they would have more actively addressed this issue.

 

As for the MM and platoon issue it self. This was high on my list of gripes with the game, that has grown over the past 2 years, that in the end made me stop playing all together and I see no signs of this changing soon-ish.



NervosCuNervii #20 Posted 17 September 2017 - 02:53 PM

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I believe that I played in platoons for the most of 2016, which was helped when they introduced the XP bonus for platooning with the same tier tanks. Got burned out in October and took a break till April. Started platooning again and then the new MM hit which guaranteed that we were going to be bottom tier in each match. Needless to say, grinding got boring again...

From the looks of it, it appears that WG tried things and, like in politics, some wiseguy wanted his idea tried too. At first they introduced the XP bonus for platooning with same-tier tanks, left out any bonus for +/-1 tier difference and introduced an XP penalty for +/-2 tier difference.
Then they got the rule for keeping only same-tier tanks in platoons.
After the new MM they made a rule for platoons to be matched only against an equal number of enemy platoons and forced the 3/5/7 template as a priority in which I suspect there is a "thing" disallowing platoons in the 3 slot.

If some tanks are beasts while playing them in platoons, maybe they need to look at those vehicles and not at the platoon itself.





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