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Can all players "git gud" in WoT?


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 19 September 2017 - 09:48 PM

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What's makes a good player good? At what stage did you realise what you were doing wrong or what you were doing right? Did you get help? Was it trial and error? Do you feel confident before every battle? Do you notice yourself improving over time or have you hit a skill wall, is there such a thing? Can you teach an old dog new tricks or rather can you take a seemingly unchangeable bad player with 20k+ battles aside and teach them how to git gud? Can all players git gud?



qpranger #2 Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:01 PM

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I certainly can, as my constantly growing stats indicate.

And if I can, then anyone can :)



ZlatanArKung #3 Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:04 PM

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I believe all players can get good.

The question is if they are ready to put in the effort needed to get good.

UrQuan #4 Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:06 PM

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I believe everyone can improve/learn in WoT if (s)he wants to. I also accept that everyone has their own limit which is often a balance between focus, fun & learning.

 

I'm reminded of a few folks I played over the years, they tooned with me, see me or toonmates pull off epic stuffs & want to do similar stuff. They get interested to learn more & improve themselves. Some of them even became unicums (with a nice yellow/green overall rating, XVM camo!).

 

For me personally, it mainly started with the KV-4; before that I didn't really care on how I played, just wanted to drive around, shoot tanks (see my BT-7 stats for some good tank horror stats). then I got KV-4 & really enjoyed it, so I began reading up on mechanics & gameplay, watched replays & trial & error (I see someone doing nice on spot X, I try emulate this in similar circumstance & learn from my success/failure)

So yea, I got better :great:

 

Teaching an old dog new tricks is hard, I'm so used to armored heavies that I have trouble in weak-armored tanks, but it's possible, some folks took me to a trainingroom & gave me tips to play fragile & mobile meds & now I use this stuff in my play; both to play such tanks better and to counter them better in my heavies :B With some more focus, I'd imagine I would be able to learn new fun tricks :child:

 

Improving a seemingly unchangeable player is certainly possible, on one condition, he wants to become better, he wants to improve. As long as that condition isn't met & the player keeps blaming everything & anyone but himself for his terrible performance, he cannot get better, at least not in a meaningful way.



japtank #5 Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:10 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 19 September 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

Can all players git gud?

 

No.

The reasons are many, some don't want to invest the time, some don't have the reflexes, some don't care, some have understood it's a game, some just don't have the brains and... most importantly... if someone wins one percent winrate, someone else has to lose it.

 

Just been watching a famous streamer ranked sessions tonight and he didn't make significant progress, everybody being blue or purple from rank 3 on because scrubs don't even try to get past rank 2.

So his sessions wasn't different from my own sessions, just the level was higher.



Homer_J #6 Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:15 PM

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No, not all can (or want to) get good, and the better the average becomes the higher the bar for "good" is raised.



xtrem3x #7 Posted 19 September 2017 - 11:53 PM

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2 thing that will instantly separate a good player from a bad player.

 

1) using the minimap

2) comparing the minimap with who has been spotted on the enemy team so you push instead of waiting for nothing not realising the WHOLE enemy team is on the other side

 

I see a lot of bad players camping in what would normally be an ok spot to camp, but they don't realise that no one on the enemy team is in the place they would usually be, so the bad players just camp for no reason instead of pushing around and flanking.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 20 September 2017 - 12:50 AM

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Good players know when they screwed up. Bad players only know when everyone else did.

Derethim #9 Posted 20 September 2017 - 01:01 AM

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I thought I couldn't git gud by playing, but I did, no matter the balance or the gold ammo spammed at me. I'm gittin' gut. Altough you can't get your stats to luk gud. You need a reset for that, but why would you do it? XVM camo is the best part of the mod ;D

Baldrickk #10 Posted 20 September 2017 - 01:10 AM

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With the exception of the few with legitimate medical problems, anyone can git gud.

The vast majority won't bother though

Jumping_Turtle #11 Posted 20 September 2017 - 01:23 AM

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No. Not everyone can get good. But everyone can get better.

People just play on different levels. Happens in everything. Sports, games etc. Some are awesome and some are bad.

But there is always spave for improvememt.

But there will always be a difference between players.

IncandescentGerbil #12 Posted 20 September 2017 - 01:26 AM

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For many, it's a question of how much gold they are willing to spend. Sad but true.

Mike_Mckay #13 Posted 20 September 2017 - 01:43 AM

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"can" and "will" don't always connect


Firstly though it depends on your definition of "gud". An example I used to use when teaching was that if you asked someone with a PHD in system design and a prince 2 in project management to draft an outline of a project that was "idiot proof" their idea of an "idiot" would be someone who only had a first degree and did one of the poorer rip offs of the prince 2, whereas a factory workers idea of what constitutes and "idiot" would have a MUCH lower cut off point to such an extent that someone the factory worker thought was a "genius" would also be classed as an "idiot" by the person with a PHD as its relative and subjective even though most people "feel" its an objective classification due to the human curse of a singular paradigm of consciousness


If we set the bar for "gud" at a performance level, lets say better than 51% on some arbitrary grading curve or other then still not everyone "would" meet that critetia. Some simply because their cognitive ability, spacial awareness, critical and strategic thinking skills and reaction times are lacking. Others because they use those things to excess in their real lives and play games to switch off from those sorts of thing BUT inconveniently for the elitists "like" to play WOT and infest it with their deliberate mediocrity

Everyone else, those "capable" of doing so and who don't have a reason to not want to apply themselves to some degree "will" but how quickly will depend on an endless stream of variables including their "need" or desire to reach any particular level (if they even have one), their capability for doing so and the speed at which they would progress which in itself will have many factors such as level of distractions, time available and even the quality of their PC to some extent too.

Luckily most players don't frequent fhe forums though, as I think the last few generations have become excessively thin skinned and go running for a safe space the moment anyone looks at them (quite literally with some people lol), so if everyone used the forums then we would probably lose a lot of players who "would" "get gud" at some pace but those too intellectually deficient to ever be able to probably wouldn't even register the snarkiness and vitriol on here anyway so they would stick around regardless (I might fall into that category lol)

So basically not all players "can" git gud by any objective scale, the higher that scale is then the fewer who would even be capable of it. And even from the ones who "could" not all will be inclined to as "gud" might not even factor into their reason to play the game or be one of their aims from playing the game. But I don't think those two groups combined would make up anything like the "majority" of players, maybe 10-20% at an absolute outside guess.

But some days I really do wonder if that assumption is TOTALLY off target lol
 

Edited by Mike_Mckay, 20 September 2017 - 01:45 AM.


Jigabachi #14 Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:46 AM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 20 September 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

With the exception of the few with legitimate medical problems, anyone can git gud.

The vast majority won't bother though

This. Almost everybody could, but many simply don't want. Just take all those botlike players with their >20k matches who tell you that "it's just a game lol".

 

 



Mike_Mckay #15 Posted 20 September 2017 - 03:06 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 20 September 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

This. Almost everybody could, but many simply don't want. Just take all those botlike players with their >20k matches who tell you that "it's just a game lol".

 

 

 

Even that doesn't mean they "wont" get better, the issue there from your perspective is they aren't better NOW, they didn't get better by the deadline when you wanted them to get better and even though they probably are much "better" than they were at 1k, 5k, 10k and 15k games its not "better" enough for you and doesn't meet your criteria for "better"

Which unless you are in the top 5% of players is probably something people who are in the top 5% will say about your game play as well

But I am sure if you offered to fund those peoples entire WOT playtime, pay for their PC, pay for their time, pay for their internet and make them cups of tea so they don't have to take a break from "practise" many of them would HAPPILY put in the practise required to meet you exacting expectations of them

If you don't do that though don't be surprised if they play how they want and prioritise "getting better" how they choose, if that's not good enough aren't there ranked battles you can play?
 

Edited by Mike_Mckay, 20 September 2017 - 03:07 AM.


spuriousmonkey #16 Posted 20 September 2017 - 05:08 AM

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yes and no. Not everyone can "git gud" and at the same time everyone can "git gud" simply because "gitting gud" remained undefined.

 

Everybody is applying a different definition of "gitting gud" in this topic so you will see completely opposite answers.

 

 



Mike_Mckay #17 Posted 20 September 2017 - 05:17 AM

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View Postspuriousmonkey, on 20 September 2017 - 04:08 AM, said:

yes and no. Not everyone can "git gud" and at the same time everyone can "git gud" simply because "gitting gud" remained undefined.

 

Everybody is applying a different definition of "gitting gud" in this topic so you will see completely opposite answers.

 

 

 

I thought they were talking about a General University Diploma, that is what's being discussed isn't it?

anonym_YNch2j0j5oJ9 #18 Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:13 AM

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Hard question. My friend is stuck at noob 1.8k wn8 etc.. really bad.. he is too lazy to improve

Mike_Mckay #19 Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:22 AM

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View PostPress2ForSkill, on 20 September 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

Hard question. My friend is stuck at noob 1.8k wn8 etc.. really bad.. he is too lazy to improve

 

But if he is a friend the more pertinent question is does he enjoy playing? If so theres no problem

If not, then his frustration WILL eventually make him either quit or improve, his choice


But at the same time, if he is having fun playing how he is now he could also stop playing if he tries to chase stats when that's not really why he is playing


And that IMO is the crux, what is fun for the individual, if that's chasing stats fine, if chasing stats is the last thing they want to do that's fine too for them. And whether that fits in with what complete strangers on the internet would "prefer" they did so what?

I guess the main problem with your scenario though would be if he is an "actual" friend rather than just a pseudo acquaintance you know through the game him having fun would take priority, if its the later though his skill level would be an issue if you wanted to platoon with him and he didn't want to improve as that would be both frustrating and detrimental to your own stats potentially

Maybe the ability to disable stats might be good for some people so they can just do some "plinking" when they feel like it and turn them back on when they want to play seriously. Although that would make the stats worthless other than for a personal yardstick
 

Solstad1069 #20 Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:40 AM

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View PostPress2ForSkill, on 20 September 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

Hard question. My friend is stuck at noob 1.8k wn8 etc.. really bad.. he is too lazy to improve

 

Well he is better than 90% of playerbase so u cant really call him lazy :)




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