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HT must be capable fight against TD


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avr7002 #1 Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:53 AM

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Why well armoured tanks camping? Because game mechanic is broken for favour camping. Any advance is just suicide yoloing. Watch my "tutorial" replay, how far I get with best front armoured tank, E3. I intendedly went this route, although knowing there are TD on other side. I know I will be killed, but want to know, how fast ( just TD reload time), and what I will get in return (hoping for spotting and seriously dmg enemy TD). Not happen. I was killed with 0 dmg. All TD-s pen my front from so far, that they were not even spotted. TD-s spotted me instantly by its own from other side of map when I went out of cover.

I was useless with 0 dmg.  Instead I must had wait behind wall all battle with my most armoured tank till TD-s coming to me.

Dont get me wrong. I only want to say, that there must be MORE chance for advancing. For example, my E3 for stupidity killed, but at least 2 shots from me too with at least pathetic 1500 dmg? Notice that I didnt went so far that got side shots. As long as HT have only front towards enemy, it must be capable fight against TD.

http://wotreplays.eu...c3b8f13bcae1bac



Geno1isme #2 Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:49 AM

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Yeah, spotting mechanics can be pretty retarded, esp. when you have to deal with those romulan camperbots and their laserguns.

iztok #3 Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:54 AM

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> HT must be capable fight against TD

Umm, did you miss that HTs have guns too? ;)



japtank #4 Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:59 AM

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Camping is a necessary evil.

Without those Klingons, everybody would rush, for example, the 1 line on Prokorovka and games would be over even faster than now.

On the other hand, it's true that alpha damage is a bit on the high end.

And they plan on buffing the British TDs, that will be fun :/



Spurtung #5 Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:08 AM

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I didn't watch the replay.

 

The other E3 and the E4 drove a bit more than you did (90 and 40m, respectively) and both managed to deal damage.

 

Perhaps you could be more useful for your teams if you weren't experimenting in a full tier 10 battle? I mean, you set yourself to go die just to see how much you could spot? WTF...let me guess, they were "lucky" on this replay too?


Edited by Spurtung, 21 September 2017 - 11:09 AM.


Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #6 Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:23 AM

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View Postavr7002, on 21 September 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Why well armoured tanks camping? Because game mechanic is broken for favour camping. Any advance is just suicide yoloing. Watch my "tutorial" replay, how far I get with best front armoured tank, E3. I intendedly went this route, although knowing there are TD on other side. I know I will be killed, but want to know, how fast ( just TD reload time), and what I will get in return (hoping for spotting and seriously dmg enemy TD). Not happen. I was killed with 0 dmg. All TD-s pen my front from so far, that they were not even spotted. TD-s spotted me instantly by its own from other side of map when I went out of cover.

I was useless with 0 dmg.  Instead I must had wait behind wall all battle with my most armoured tank till TD-s coming to me.

Dont get me wrong. I only want to say, that there must be MORE chance for advancing. For example, my E3 for stupidity killed, but at least 2 shots from me too with at least pathetic 1500 dmg? Notice that I didnt went so far that got side shots. As long as HT have only front towards enemy, it must be capable fight against TD.

http://wotreplays.eu...c3b8f13bcae1bac

I hope I will never be in a team with you, because you really suck if you commit suicide like that, just because you're curious.

Plus you didn't drive a HT, but an armoured TD. In any case armour shouldn't protect people from dumb play.

 

 

View Postjaptank, on 21 September 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

And they plan on buffing the British TDs, that will be fun :/

 

Have you ever even played British TDs, because they need a huge buff to become on par with most other tanks. 

 

 



MR_FIAT #7 Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:27 AM

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I think the real issue is between the keyboard and the chair. 

Thejagdpanther #8 Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:30 AM

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View Postavr7002, on 21 September 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Why well armoured tanks camping? Did they? And all other tanks? Because game mechanic is broken for favour camping. no Any advance is just suicide yoloing. yes, if is stupid like your Watch my "tutorial" replay, how far I get with best front armoured tank, E3. no I intendedly went this route, although knowing there are TD on other side. I know I will be killed, but want to know, how fast ( just TD reload time), and what I will get in return (hoping for spotting and seriously dmg enemy TD). Not happen. You didnt know the reload time of those tanks? You didnt know that in the stupid mode everyone spam gold? I was killed with 0 dmg. stupid decisions deserve that All TD-s pen my front from so far, that they were not even spotted. TD-s spotted me instantly by its own from other side of map when I went out of cover.

I was useless with 0 dmg. again, stupid decisions deserve that Instead I must had wait behind wall all battle with my most armoured tank till TD-s coming to me. you just had to use the brain, and solve problem, stupid decisions=stupid death

Dont get me wrong. Everything is wrong in that post I only want to say, that there must be MORE chance for advancing. For example, my E3 for stupidity killed, but at least 2 shots from me too with at least pathetic 1500 dmg? Notice that I didnt went so far that got side shots. As long as HT have only front towards enemy, it must be capable fight against TD. They are, more hp, turrets, slightly better viewrange and usually better armor.

 

and for the record

View PostMR_FIAT, on 21 September 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

I think the real issue is between the keyboard and the chair. 

 


Edited by Thejagdpanther, 21 September 2017 - 11:31 AM.


K_A #9 Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:37 AM

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Also Ensk is a really, REALLY small map for tier 10 tanks.. With tier 10 view range everyone can spot the enemy spawn from their own and shoot there right away so no wonder something like that will happen.

Isharial #10 Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:21 PM

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armour is useful and when well used is a very strong advantage, the only thing stopping it from working is the thing behind the chair and PC.....


 

View Postavr7002, on 21 September 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Why well armoured tanks camping? Because game mechanic is broken for favour camping. Any advance is just suicide yoloing. Watch my "tutorial" replay, how far I get with best front armoured tank, E3. I intendedly went this route, although knowing there are TD on other side. I know I will be killed, but want to know, how fast ( just TD reload time), and what I will get in return (hoping for spotting and seriously dmg enemy TD). Not happen. I was killed with 0 dmg. All TD-s pen my front from so far, that they were not even spotted. TD-s spotted me instantly by its own from other side of map when I went out of cover.

I was useless with 0 dmg.  Instead I must had wait behind wall all battle with my most armoured tank till TD-s coming to me.

Dont get me wrong. I only want to say, that there must be MORE chance for advancing. For example, my E3 for stupidity killed, but at least 2 shots from me too with at least pathetic 1500 dmg? Notice that I didnt went so far that got side shots. As long as HT have only front towards enemy, it must be capable fight against TD.

http://wotreplays.eu...c3b8f13bcae1bac

 

E3 is an armoured TD, its not built for spotting, nor is capable of it, it doesn't have the moving camo, or the view range to do so

the enemy will always outspot you if they know what they are doing, specially if they are running camo net + bino's... my T8 china TD has 500m view range & 60% camo with net.. you wont outspot me as you roll forward in an E3, but I will see you

atleast know the mechanics before you do something like this OP :amazed:


 

no, you just don't go that flank and you find an area that covers your advance with such a tank... map awareness and knowledge is worth more than your tank is


 

there IS chance for advancing, you just have to have intelligence when you do so, and not blindly run up a flank "cuz reasons"


 

your not a heavy tank, and you are capable of fighting against TD.....


 


 



avr7002 #11 Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:21 PM

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As HT or TD, I mean rather playstyle, not just tank (btw. E3 is also TD). I think, that HT must be capable take and hold some time territory. I almost managed it, at least I forced Strv abandon his position and free this corridor for our team. Prise for it was too high. I occupied corridor and made 1300 spotted dmg, but take out my tank with 0 dmg. Game will be more interesting and more dynamic, if it will be also battle for territory with some sacrifices (like chess). Now it is often camping or trading shots, hoping for better RNG than enemy. For me it is boring. We have only one life and there are more interesting to do around, not hugging pixel wall 10 minutes. WoT is good, when bad weather (most of time)



Isharial #12 Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:29 PM

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View Postavr7002, on 21 September 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

As HT or TD, I mean rather playstyle, not just tank (btw. E3 is also TD). I think, that HT must be capable take and hold some time territory. I almost managed it, at least I forced Strv abandon his position and free this corridor for our team. Prise for it was too high. I occupied corridor and made 1300 spotted dmg, but take out my tank with 0 dmg. Game will be more interesting and more dynamic, if it will be also battle for territory with some sacrifices (like chess). Now it is often camping or trading shots, hoping for better RNG than enemy. For me it is boring. We have only one life and there are more interesting to do around, not hugging pixel wall 10 minutes. WoT is good, when bad weather (most of time)

 

do you even T6?

see, I would have gone into the town with your tank, and actually played as a heavy on the map, you have the scare factor and a load of armour... don't give it away for free like that :sceptic:


 

this is a "l2p" issue rather than a problem with balance..


 

think of it as chess as you say, why take a pawn against a king? you being the pawn when running 1 line on ensk....

ask yourself a few questions when considering a flank:


 

- can I get to the flank relatively easily and fast? in your case, yes to this

- can I spot the enemy myself, or do I need a spotter? no to this

- can I hide or retreat if im spotted and unable to advance? and no to this as well (because you died)


 

after the first "No" it would be clear that your wasted and useless running 1 line.. and therefore should find a different flank to attack down


 


 



Aikl #13 Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:37 PM

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E3 might be classed as a TD, but that's mostly down to gun parameters rather than dictated playstyle. Like a plethora of other tanks, the class doesn't dictate the playstyle. Many TDs are able to impact the game the most on the frontlines. Some heavy tanks are best at medium to long range. There are medium tanks who have features lending themselves to brawling with heavy tanks rather than flanking. 

 

Anyway, excessive basecamping is indeed one of the annoying features of WoT, but you can't really blame most players for doing what sadly is the most effective tactic - to camp that bush-and-rock fort in the baseand wait for the enemy.

Hence, maps are to blame more than TDs, which when not camping are far more balanced, in that they do well in straight-line fighting or defending a flank. There they simply can feature their (typical) strong parameter - a big gun. Heavies have armor, mediums have mobility and DPM. All are strong in each situation.

 When a base-camping position can lock down every approach and half the map, you have a case of bad map design, not necessarily a class problem.



commer #14 Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:44 PM

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View Postavr7002, on 21 September 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Why well armoured tanks camping? Because game mechanic is broken for favour camping. Any advance is just suicide yoloing. Watch my "tutorial" replay, how far I get with best front armoured tank, E3. I intendedly went this route, although knowing there are TD on other side. I know I will be killed, but want to know, how fast ( just TD reload time), and what I will get in return (hoping for spotting and seriously dmg enemy TD). Not happen. I was killed with 0 dmg. All TD-s pen my front from so far, that they were not even spotted. TD-s spotted me instantly by its own from other side of map when I went out of cover.

I was useless with 0 dmg.  Instead I must had wait behind wall all battle with my most armoured tank till TD-s coming to me.

Dont get me wrong. I only want to say, that there must be MORE chance for advancing. For example, my E3 for stupidity killed, but at least 2 shots from me too with at least pathetic 1500 dmg? Notice that I didnt went so far that got side shots. As long as HT have only front towards enemy, it must be capable fight against TD.

http://wotreplays.eu...c3b8f13bcae1bac

 

1. Please check your posts for grammar and proper structure. This is hard to understand

2. Sorry but advancing is not suicide. Watch how the best players on the server play. Almost all of them are agressive

3. Even in TDs you should advance in your team. If you wait for your team to die to have shots and otherwise you are out of shooting range you are a horrible player.

4. This may sound rude but a 47% win rate player is in no position to create guides. 

5. There is a big difference between smart advance and going yolo. What you did was suicide not advancing. 

 

If you want to know how to play agressively watch players like "Skill4Ltu", "Carbon Ward", "X3N4" (though he did run full gold on his max dpg challenges), "Kewei". From youtubers watch Shishx, Zeven, Skill4ltu - watching them play you will learn how to be agressive.



Spurtung #15 Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:03 PM

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I finally watched the replay.

 

Found it funny how OP gets spotted in the first corner and his reaction is to move forward. Later on, when he realizes he's pretty much dead (he takes a while to reach that conclusion) he angles the tank in the opposite direction that he should have.

 

Also, someone should tell him the lower plate of the E3 is only 170mm thick.



TheR3dBaron #16 Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:07 PM

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This is like playing rock, paper, scissors and asking for rock to win against scisoors and paper since you usually play rock.

Balc0ra #17 Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:33 PM

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It's Ensk. Map is about as big as most have view range. So not always ideal to "yolo" down a corridor to lock any lane in a tier X game. As tier X TD's have enough pen to deal with most tanks rather easy. Especially the Swedish TD with his 308 mm of pen. And the map don't have many TD lanes. So relying on your armor when you know what TD guns they have is not gonna work. Even on that TD with armor.

 

Then again Grille, the one that killed you had zero spots. So I suspect you got spotted by the 103 TD. And he was just far enough back or behind a bush to take you out safely. As camo works better when standing still behind cover, vs in motion driving down a corridor in the open. So if that was your plan. I would have taken a different route. As even on Ensk... driving back far enough will make it harder to spot them. Especially on the A1 double bush area to name one.



avr7002 #18 Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:49 PM

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The problem, there are no working alternatives for camping. My tank gets spotted instantly in the first corner and instantly get shots. Instead my moving forward I must had thrown back behind corner (wall, hill or so) and stay there until battle is solved. Even better never look out of corner. I dont want waste my time so boring way. I better go for fishing, golf or sailing.



Pandabird #19 Posted 21 September 2017 - 05:00 PM

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HT player must be capable.

 

.... lol no. cornerwank loser.



AliceUnchained #20 Posted 21 September 2017 - 06:29 PM

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View Postavr7002, on 21 September 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Why well armoured tanks camping? Because game mechanic is broken for favour camping. Any advance is just suicide yoloing.

 

Utter rubbish. Your advance was suicide yolo'ing. Nothing more, nothing less. But of course game mechanics are broken, it has nothing to do with your dumb way of playing that map.

 

Edit: Come to think of it, maybe we all just looked at this from a wrong angle. After all we get to witness an IS-7 so desperate it saw the need to use HE, as it may be under the impression it cannot take on the E3 frontally. Maybe what OP meant was that the IS-7 as a HT should have no worry, no fear, no trouble engaging the E3 comfortably? And that IS-7 was cowering in the back more or less, sort of camping.


Edited by AliceUnchained, 21 September 2017 - 07:12 PM.





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