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Should Firefly be rebalanced, and how?

Firefly 9.20.1

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PassoP #1 Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:32 AM

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As WG is buffing and tweaking Her Majesties tanks, I'd like to see Firefly buffed too. Now it's just far too slow for a medium with such a poor armor. Something like +5kmph should do the trick.

Agree/disagree? What are your thoughts on Firefly?



Asghaad #2 Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:40 AM

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View PostPassoP, on 23 September 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

As WG is buffing and tweaking Her Majesties tanks, I'd like to see Firefly buffed too. Now it's just far too slow for a medium with such a poor armor. Something like +5kmph should do the trick.

Agree/disagree? What are your thoughts on Firefly?

 

fine, buff its mobility ... but also uptier it to T8 because 171 pen gun on medium tank has no business being at T6 or even T7 ...

 

 

see, checks and balances - Firefly has pen higher than most tank destroyers at that tier, it cant also have medium class mobility or it would be overpowered as **** ...



CaravanOfCourage #3 Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:44 AM

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Standard WG buff.

-10 gun depression and 200mm eff. turret armor :)



PassoP #4 Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:45 AM

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View PostAsghaad, on 23 September 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

 

fine, buff its mobility ... but also uptier it to T8 because 171 pen gun on medium tank has no business being at T6 or even T7 ...

 

 

see, checks and balances - Firefly has pen higher than most tank destroyers at that tier, it cant also have medium class mobility or it would be overpowered as **** ...

 

I think a little bit more top speed wouldn't make it overpowered, as it would still have to compete against such monsters as Cromwell and T-34-85M. Having mobility on par with other tier 6 mediums wouldn't even put it in the same league as those.

Snake_Keeper #5 Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:55 AM

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View PostAsghaad, on 23 September 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

see, checks and balances - Firefly has pen higher than most tank destroyers at that tier, it cant also have medium class mobility or it would be overpowered as **** ...

Odd, most tank destroyers in that tier have more pen than the Firefly, and the few that have less, have numbers like -11(Hellcat, and Jackson) . Only the Jagdpanzer IV has a large difference, -26. With your logic the Tiger I should be up tiered cause it has more pen than most tank destroyers in that tier.

 

You forget, that the Firefly is way taller than the tank destroyers in that tier. It can't really hide in all the places the TDs can.


Edited by Snake_Keeper, 23 September 2017 - 06:59 AM.


Asghaad #6 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:15 AM

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View PostSnake_Keeper, on 23 September 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

Odd, most tank destroyers in that tier have more pen than the Firefly, and the few that have less, have numbers like -11(Hellcat, and Jackson) . Only the Jagdpanzer IV has a large difference, -26. With your logic the Tiger I should be up tiered cause it has more pen than most tank destroyers in that tier.

 

You forget, that the Firefly is way taller than the tank destroyers in that tier. It can't really hide in all the places the TDs can.

 

there are whopping 3 TDs with great pen at T6 - Nashorn, Churchill GC and ARL V39 - considering that French and Brit are absolute GARBAGE tds its basically only thing they have

 

rest has either 160 (turreted US), 171 (Achilles and AT8 with the same gun as Firefly ...), 180 (Swede), 145 (flatpanzer), 175 (Su-100)

 

 

secondly the Tiger is a heavy, and its TIER 7 heavy with tier 6 TD gun ... and it just shows you dont know many tanks because French ARL44 has 212 pen gun at tier 6 xD

yes exceptions exist, Firefly is on of those exceptions by having MUCH higher penetration than any other T6 medium, but all exceptions are always balanced by having disadvantages for it, in case of Firefly that would be the mobility.



Snake_Keeper #7 Posted 23 September 2017 - 08:16 AM

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View PostAsghaad, on 23 September 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

 

and it just shows you dont know many tanks because French ARL44 has 212 pen gun at tier 6 xD

I have it in my garage, yes I know about the gun. Tiger I was brought up cause it shows how silly your argument is. A tank that should be down tiered, but with your example it should be up tiered.

Don't try to make arguments by going around saying "what about this!". Just shows that you follow whataboutism in your arguments. That is Soviet Union stuff. And doesn't really downplay the opposing side's argument one bit.

Neither does trying to make it seem like the opposing side doesn't know about something cause they did not mention it.


Edited by Snake_Keeper, 23 September 2017 - 08:20 AM.


PassoP #8 Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:05 AM

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The thing about pen is, that once you have enough, you don't need more. In my experience, for tier 6 mediums about 150 is usually enough, if you compensate with a little bit of premium ammo. Now Firefly plays more like a TD, with lowish DPM and low camo, since it is too slow to flank like a true medium. Even if it got more top speed to fulfill that role, it still wouldn't be anywhere near tier 7 performance, no matter how high its pen is.

 

In summary: Pen don't maketh tank.



K_A #9 Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:14 AM

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It's not a medium tank, but a TD disguised as a medium tank. Play it as a second line sniping TD and you'll do wonders.

captainpigg #10 Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:24 AM

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The only thing it probably needs is a gun depression buff.

 



Balc0ra #11 Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:52 AM

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View PostAsghaad, on 23 September 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

 

fine, buff its mobility ... but also uptier it to T8 because 171 pen gun on medium tank has no business being at T6 or even T7 ...

 

 

see, checks and balances - Firefly has pen higher than most tank destroyers at that tier, it cant also have medium class mobility or it would be overpowered as **** ...

 

Considering most tier 7  meds have 175 or even 198 pen. I don't see even 171 as an issue, considering the super heavies they have to fight late came that has come of late is only one tier up.

The gun is not even good on the Firefly, or AC4. DPM is low compared to other support meds. More or less on pair with the short 88 with high alpha on other tier 6 meds like the Skoda, beating it by 1 dpm.

 

Some have low pen, but massive ROF and dpm along with mobility like the A-43 or Cromwell. Some have high alpha and good dispersion and meh mobility and meh dpm like the VK and Skoda T40 etc. Firefly only has pen, and that's it. Mobility is slow, dispersion is almost a 0.40 vs the 0.33 the Strv 74 have, so crap for a support med. Armor is not even there. And statistically, it's not even preforming average vs other tier 6 meds. Thus why I sold it when I aced, as vs my other tier 6 supports meds. It has nothing.

 

So IMO a minor mobility buff would not hurt. Or a tiny dispersion buff to give it something to at least be on pair with other support meds.



tajj7 #12 Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:23 AM

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Accuracy or speed I'd reckon, maybe gun depression to -7/-8. 

 

As Balcora mentions above, it's much like the Panther, it pays too much for having good pen. Too many tanks like the Panther, Cent 7/1, Cent 1 etc. got big drawbacks for having high pen on a medium tank but then loads of other vehicles came along with almost as good pen without the drawbacks and just powercrept it. Plus there is the whole premium ammo issue, something like a Cromwell press his 2 key and what does a Firefly have then? 



DracheimFlug #13 Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:45 AM

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Firefly should really be a TD anyway. It was primarily designed as TD support for regular mediums. Yes I know that doing so does not follow TD doctrine of the period but nevertheless.... They were an anti tank support variant just as the Sherman 105's were anti infantry/anti bunker support variants.

Asghaad #14 Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:48 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 23 September 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

 

Considering most tier 7  meds have 175 or even 198 pen. I don't see even 171 as an issue, considering the super heavies they have to fight late came that has come of late is only one tier up.

The gun is not even good on the Firefly, or AC4. DPM is low compared to other support meds. More or less on pair with the short 88 with high alpha on other tier 6 meds like the Skoda, beating it by 1 dpm.

 

Some have low pen, but massive ROF and dpm along with mobility like the A-43 or Cromwell. Some have high alpha and good dispersion and meh mobility and meh dpm like the VK and Skoda T40 etc. Firefly only has pen, and that's it. Mobility is slow, dispersion is almost a 0.40 vs the 0.33 the Strv 74 have, so crap for a support med. Armor is not even there. And statistically, it's not even preforming average vs other tier 6 meds. Thus why I sold it when I aced, as vs my other tier 6 supports meds. It has nothing.

 

So IMO a minor mobility buff would not hurt. Or a tiny dispersion buff to give it something to at least be on pair with other support meds.

 

say WHAT ? most T7 meds habe 140-155 pen ... there are few exception of course but vast majority T7 meds have guns around 150 ...

 

and Firefly has 1996 DPM, thats in the level of T7 or T8 medium while having great accuracy gunhandling and aimtime for its tier ...

 

yes few oddities like Cromwell have higher DPM ... with low pen and bad softstats (cromwell blooms reticle more on the move than KV2 with its monster 152mm derpgun does ...)

 

lastly Firefly has 0.36 accuracy with 100% crew and no equipment (0.35 with vents and BiA) thats not bad for T6.

 

 

people stop expecting your favourite tank to be exceptional at everything, yes there is that one tank that has higher DPM, the other with better accuracy, other with better softstats ... etc the speciality of Firefly is penetration, if you dont like it, dont play it xD



Asghaad #15 Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:50 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 23 September 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Accuracy or speed I'd reckon, maybe gun depression to -7/-8. 

 

As Balcora mentions above, it's much like the Panther, it pays too much for having good pen. Too many tanks like the Panther, Cent 7/1, Cent 1 etc. got big drawbacks for having high pen on a medium tank but then loads of other vehicles came along with almost as good pen without the drawbacks and just powercrept it. Plus there is the whole premium ammo issue, something like a Cromwell press his 2 key and what does a Firefly have then? 

 

i would agree with depression buff, mobility only if it came at the expense of lower DPM

 

and it would have 239 pen instead of 200 xD you know that difference between penning the lower plate of O252U and bouncing every shot off of it xD



SuedKAT #16 Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:09 PM

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It's already a great tank and the only thing I would grant it would be:

View Posttajj7, on 23 September 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

gun depression to -7/-8. 

The accuracy can be a bit annoying, that's true, but it's balanced by the pen I'd say, at least at the tier.






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