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Inconsistent Spotting Mechanics


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gav00 #1 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:03 PM

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While trying to find sneaky new locations to be killed from, I noticed that some soft cover does not obscure vehicles from getting spotted (wood fence, some destructible huts) whilst others do (destructible concrete wall, train carriage, prop vehicles etc). That seems a bit odd to me and i cant think of a reason why WG would purposefully have it that way.

 

It also seems to me that the spotting 'nodes' on some vehicles are not actually attached to the model but seem to float above it, meaning you won't be hidden when you would assume you are.

 

Both of these issues mean that on medium and small maps, in a slow vehicle, you can be spotted within the first 10-15 seconds of the battle, having only moved a few meters.

 

With the speed, accuracy and penetration of most light tanks, you can be dead within that time too, all thanks to a see through fence panel.

 

If all of the above is working by design, then fair enough, it's a weird mechanic to get around the tiny maps which in turn get around the aged game engine. But if this is the case then it really needs to be explained.

Learning by going up to each soft cover object and seeing if i get hit is no fun.



Isharial #2 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:11 PM

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View Postgav00, on 23 September 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

While trying to find sneaky new locations to be killed from, I noticed that some soft cover does not obscure vehicles from getting spotted (wood fence, some destructible huts) whilst others do (destructible concrete wall, train carriage, prop vehicles etc). That seems a bit odd to me and i cant think of a reason why WG would purposefully have it that way.

 

It also seems to me that the spotting 'nodes' on some vehicles are not actually attached to the model but seem to float above it, meaning you won't be hidden when you would assume you are.

 

Both of these issues mean that on medium and small maps, in a slow vehicle, you can be spotted within the first 10-15 seconds of the battle, having only moved a few meters.

 

With the speed, accuracy and penetration of most light tanks, you can be dead within that time too, all thanks to a see through fence panel.

 

If all of the above is working by design, then fair enough, it's a weird mechanic to get around the tiny maps which in turn get around the aged game engine. But if this is the case then it really needs to be explained.

Learning by going up to each soft cover object and seeing if i get hit is no fun.

 

well, generally you can see through wooden fences (specially if there are gaps between the planks) as well as being able to see through windows of houses and huts

whereas its not quite so easy to see through the underframe, brake gear, wheelsets and then the wagon body on an overturned railway wagon


 

with that in mind, it makes perfect sense the way its done


 

the best thing is to make sure you cant destroy an object, that way, no surprise shots will appear through it..

.....unless there's a window or doorway or something...



RamRaid90 #3 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:12 PM

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Almost everything in your post is entirely misinformed or blatantly incorrect.

 

The spotting locations are in identical positions on every single tank in the game.

 

The locations on your tank which can be spotted are located on the end of the gun, top of the turret, front, side and rear of the hull (middle section of each)

 

The two locations your vehicle uses to spot another are located on the end of the gun and the top of the turret.

 

If any of youir "nodes" are aligned with another tanks spotting locations the server will perform the relevent calculations to decide whether your vehicle can be spotted. This is entirely dependent on View range vs Camo value.

 

If an enemy vehicle enters the "auto spot range" around your tank (50m diameter circle) you will automatically be spotted, as will they.

 

ANY soft or hard cover which blocks the view of ALL your spotting locations can and will prevent you from being spotted by an enemy as they cannot physically see your tank. A fence, or small brick wall does not cover ALL of these spots as your turret will show over the top.


Edited by RamRaid90, 23 September 2017 - 07:16 PM.


gav00 #4 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:14 PM

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View PostIsharial, on 23 September 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

 

well, generally you can see through wooden fences (specially if there are gaps between the planks) as well as being able to see through windows of houses and huts

whereas its not quite so easy to see through the underframe, brake gear, wheelsets and then the wagon body on an overturned railway wagon


 

with that in mind, it makes perfect sense the way its done


 

the best thing is to make sure you cant destroy an object, that way, no surprise shots will appear through it..

.....unless there's a window or doorway or something...

 

Surely you shouldn't be able to spot a tank through the window of a hut or crack in a fence half a map away? 

I have only been in a couple of real tanks on the move but it's hard to spot anything at all let alone slight details like that



gav00 #5 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:17 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 23 September 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

The spotting locations are in identical positions on every single tank in the game.

 

The locations on your tank which can be spotted are located on the end of the gun, top of the turret, front, side and rear of the hull (middle section of each)

 

So the positions arent identical if they vary for each tank?

 

Edit: Also I am here to question and to learn, please do not think i am making assumptions 


Edited by gav00, 23 September 2017 - 07:18 PM.


Isharial #6 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:19 PM

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View Postgav00, on 23 September 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

 

Surely you shouldn't be able to spot a tank through the window of a hut or crack in a fence half a map away?

I have only been in a couple of real tanks on the move but it's hard to spot anything at all let alone slight details like that

 

its done on algorithims, so in a game, that's possible, in reality less so, but not entirely impossible either...

 


 



RamRaid90 #7 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:23 PM

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View Postgav00, on 23 September 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

 

So the positions arent identical if they vary for each tank?

 

Edit: Also I am here to question and to learn, please do not think i am making assumptions 

 

Which is why smaller, shorter tanks like the swedish tank destroyers are naturally harder to spot than a Maus.

gav00 #8 Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:27 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 23 September 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

 

Which is why smaller, shorter tanks like the swedish tank destroyers are naturally harder to spot than a Maus.

 

I understand that bit, though i still question as to whether those nodes are actually placed correctly on some vehicles.

 

Was all soft cover not also visual cover at some point? I seem to get spotted from far more locations than i would have a couple of years ago



tankqull #9 Posted 23 September 2017 - 08:05 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 23 September 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Almost everything in your post is entirely misinformed or blatantly incorrect.

 

The spotting locations are in identical positions on every single tank in the game.

 

The locations on your tank which can be spotted are located on the end of the gun, top of the turret, front, side and rear of the hull (middle section of each)

 

The two locations your vehicle uses to spot another are located on the end of the gun and the top of the turret.

 

If any of youir "nodes" are aligned with another tanks spotting locations the server will perform the relevent calculations to decide whether your vehicle can be spotted. This is entirely dependent on View range vs Camo value.

 

If an enemy vehicle enters the "auto spot range" around your tank (50m diameter circle) you will automatically be spotted, as will they.

 

ANY soft or hard cover which blocks the view of ALL your spotting locations can and will prevent you from being spotted by an enemy as they cannot physically see your tank. A fence, or small brick wall does not cover ALL of these spots as your turret will show over the top.

this is not 100% correct, brick walls do not provide any spoting cover at all even if you are able because of a some kind of ridgeline/depression to have your turret spotbulp covered behind it. same with the hey bails that do not provide any los cover at alle regardless if you can hide all your spoting points behind it. there are even some bushes, trees and other visual solid obsticales that cover you entirely but do not provide any spoting protection.



CmdRatScabies #10 Posted 23 September 2017 - 08:40 PM

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View Posttankqull, on 23 September 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

...... there are even some bushes, trees and other visual solid obsticales that cover you entirely but do not provide any spoting protection.

 

Not all bushes are created equal.  I wonder if there is a mod that shows you which bushes aren't cover.

Balc0ra #11 Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:41 PM

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View Postgav00, on 23 September 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

 

Surely you shouldn't be able to spot a tank through the window of a hut or crack in a fence half a map away? 

I have only been in a couple of real tanks on the move but it's hard to spot anything at all let alone slight details like that

 

You would be amazed on how many I've spotted behind a house 400m away. If one of your spotting dots align perfectly with someones spotting lines though the window... you will get spotted. As the building don't give you a camo bonus to make it harder. If part of your tank is exposed, you will get spotted if there is a spotting dot on it. It's like the center hill bush on airfield over looking east base. Before that had a big gap in the middle. So everyone behind it got spotted via their lower plate dot. As that was exposed. Thus rendering the camo bonus the bush gives to zero. As that dot is not behind cover.

gav00 #12 Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:03 AM

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View Posttankqull, on 23 September 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

this is not 100% correct, brick walls do not provide any spoting cover at all even if you are able because of a some kind of ridgeline/depression to have your turret spotbulp covered behind it. same with the hey bails that do not provide any los cover at alle regardless if you can hide all your spoting points behind it. there are even some bushes, trees and other visual solid obsticales that cover you entirely but do not provide any spoting protection.

 

is this all by design? It seems pointless to have most of the map objects if so




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